Masters Degree

[Garaen]

Hey guys,

This is quite a strange question (but by christ not nearly as strange as some i've seen asked on this forum ) - I was wondering whether anyone knows how well 'weighted' (for lack of a better term) a Masters degree is. I'm considering doing a 1 year taught Masters at Uni in Business Management (don't get this mixed up with an MBA) which will give me an MSc after my BA (graduated from Uni this year). My main issue is that it's going to cost me 7 grand for the tuition fees + living expenses etc etc so it's not a decision i'm taking lightly.

Is there anyone here who deals with recruitment who could tell me whether someone with a Masters after their standard degree would really have an edge? I'm not entirely sure where i see myself in 5 years time, i've no idea which field of work would suit me so as of this moment i'm planning on trying to get in to one of the big consultancy firms (PricewaterhouseCoopers, Ernst & Young, Mckinsey & Co, KPMG etc) to see if the business sector suits me. I've toyed with the idea of signing on to some recruitment agencies in a city to move around a few different sectors to see what I like doing but i've decided against that as it's too much risk involved.

Sorry i've rambled on a bit but any advice would be greatly welcomed.

 

[Munkey]

I'm starting my Masters this year in International Politics, considerably cheaper than anything to do with Business as less people take it.

Personally, I see it as part of giving you something that nobody else has. Plus I'll be using the year to improve myself in other ways, doing 1 day a week internships, carrying on with my contact making, as well as continuing my arabic lessons. All something that I couldn't do if I had a full time job.

My masters plus all this will hopefully get me something alot better than if I'd just started off now.

As for business however? You could try contacting the firms directly and asking them, has the added bonus that they might remember you later as well. But having a masters degree is no bad thing.

 

[Tilda]

It really depends on what you want to do.
In law, if you want to go into it, the basic law degree is all you need, and a good masters won't really help if you have a bad law degree. The law firms generally dont care much about the MA. Thats not to say its not useful if you want to show a special interest in a specific area, but they wont automatically choose an MA over just an LLB(Hons).

Your best bet for PWC etc is to apply for their summer intern/vacation schemes, I have friends on it now and you get a lot of experience and exposure and is a really useful thing to have on your CV if you're applying to jobs in that area.

 

[mycenae]

I've always been told that potential employers for newly 'out of uni' candidates, will nearly ALWAYS look at what you have done since you left school....and if you haven't has a year out/some life experience/a job or internship, they are going to pick someone who does over you, even if you are an outstanding candidate. So, while a masters is no bad thing at all to have, you might want to consider what else you have to offer in terms of experience and life skills, because, I guarantee, its as important, if not more so. They can teach you the trade, but not the stuff you get to learn about when you have a job and have been about a bit.

 

[Draylor]

A Masters is worthless unless you are either a) scared to get a job and determined to waste yer time in a Uni forever or b) a twat that studied something utterly worthless for the last few years.

 

[DaGaffer]

Having a Masters had an immediate benefit for me; got me on a graduate induction programme with a large corporate and I also got paid more than the other graduates on the programme right from the off (there were ten graduates in the programme and the two of us with Masters started on about £3K more, and that was a long time ago).

To a great extent it also depends on what its in and where you do it, but I do think a Masters helps you stand out from the pack a little bit.

 

[Chilly]

I'd say go for it - government will probably collapse before you need to repay your student loan in full anyway

On the other hand, as for getting jobs, I got mine on the back of the weakest academic qualification in the selection group of about 20. However I do run my own business and did all sorts of strange stuff at school and thru uni so they decided I was what they wanted over several double first oxford business computing people, who I'm sure are excellent at whatever it is they do but wouldnt know a line of perl if it was tattood on their forehead backwards.

 

[Milkshake]

I found my masters to be really very useful, but that's because it came with a 3 month industry placement. After the end of my degree, I ended up with a full-time place there, and that's me finishing my 1st year of work

 

[Jupitus]

To a great extent it also depends on what its in and where you do it, but I do think a Masters helps you stand out from the pack a little bit.

... from a recruiters perspective I see it as a small differentiater, but it must be done for the right reasons, not just for the certificate.

 

[Draylor]

To a great extent it also depends on what its in and where you do it, but I do think a Masters helps you stand out from the pack a little bit.

If youve got a clue you really dont need any help standing out from the masses of clueless sheep with a bit of paper.

If you havent a Masters wont help.

 

[DaGaffer]

If youve got a clue you really dont need any help standing out from the masses of clueless sheep with a bit of paper.

If you havent a Masters wont help.

Like I said, the very fact of my Masters gave me an immediate headstart financially. Maybe that's not fair, but it worked.

The qualifications you have matter less and less as you get further into your career, but every now and then you do get a corporates (particularly American ones) that will will use a masters on their scoring criteria and that can be the difference between even getting an interview or a headhunter call or not. And you can say that you wouldn't want to work for a company like that, but HR departments are generally run by dicks, no matter how good the rest of the company may be.

 

[Draylor]

Like I said, the very fact of my Masters gave me an immediate headstart financially

Did it? Depends how you look at it.

Had you gone straight into the same job at 3k less in year 1 how would your total salary over 3/4/5 years compare to the total having spent a year on your Masters?

The difference doesnt last long for anyone with half a brain, and the expense (or rather additional debt) from doing a Masters is often more significant.

 

[DaGaffer]

Did it? Depends how you look at it.

Had you gone straight into the same job at 3k less in year 1 how would your total salary over 3/4/5 years compare to the total having spent a year on your Masters?

The difference doesnt last long for anyone with half a brain, and the expense (or rather additional debt) from doing a Masters is often more significant.

Well, as it turns out, my Masters gave me an immediate benefit (which is when you need it most) and then because of the subject matter, it helped to get me my first internet job in '95, and I've done fairly well out of that career choice. Would I have gotten to the same place without my Masters? Possibly, even probably. Would I have got to work for some of the companies I've worked for, like the BBC? I honestly think probably not. My Masters made up for the fact that I didn't go to a first rank Uni. I'm confident enough in my own abilities to know that I interview well, but as I said before, that's all irrelevant unless you have the qualifications to get you to the interview in the first place, especially early in your career.

I don't know enough about Garaen's background, existing qualifications or personality to make an unqualified judgement about the benefit of a Masters, but I do have the personal experience (from both sides of the interview table) to know that you can't dismiss the value of a Masters out of hand.

 

[Draylor]

Would I have gotten to the same place without my Masters? Possibly, even probably.

Exactly.

 

[Garaen]

Thanks for the info guys - my situation is that i've basically just graduated and i'm at loss of where to go next. Whatever i do i want to open more doors than i close. My main motivation behind doing a Masters in Business Management is that it sounds good, it'll be useful in a business environment, an MSc makes me stand out more (as it stands i've graduated with a 2:1 and have done nothing inside or outside of uni to make me really stand out).

I've no idea what type of job i want to be doing and so i presume the skillset the masters should give me will allow me to be succesful in a business environment if i decide to go down that path (can't really see myself doing anything else as nothing else appeals to me at the moment).

 

[Draylor]

So you did a noddy degree in nothing particular since you had no idea what you really wanted to do, and now you think its a good idea to follow that up by doing a noddy Masters since you still dont know?

First work out what you want to do, then do whatever is required to get you there.

So much easier - and far more likely to succeed.

 

[DaGaffer]

So you did a noddy degree in nothing particular since you had no idea what you really wanted to do, and now you think its a good idea to follow that up by doing a noddy Masters since you still dont know?

First work out what you want to do, then do whatever is required to get you there.

So much easier - and far more likely to succeed.

Fuck me you're smug. I had no idea what I wanted to do at the end of my degree and I was 23 when I started! Believe it or not, not everyone lives in your world of certainties. Pre-planning your life may be an option for you, but for a lot of us, equipping ourselves for randomness is a better strategy.

 

[Draylor]

Smug or not a masterplan of "well Ill just waste the next year and hope for the best" is bloody stupid.

 

[Damini]

I'm loathed to agree with Draylor because he's being a bit blunt and not too concerned with pleasantries, but I do think that doing a masters in a course you're not sure you really want to pursue simply because you want to bulk a CV, you're at a loose end, and it might come in handy in a career path you've not yet decided upon is not really a fantastic idea.

Why not take a year to experiment with different jobs, get some idea of what careers suit you and what you loathe, pay off some student debt, and save some money towards a potential masters degree. If you decide not to go then you'll have a few grand put aside to spank on sharp suits or pet monkeys or something I'm sure one of our resident employers could confirm or deny, but I'd assume it'll look just as good on your CV, getting some hands on experience to temper all the academia.

Good luck either way, not an easy decision to make, and I can really sympathise with the whole "not knowing what I want to do with my life" thing. If I hadn't fallen into what I'm doing now, I think I'd probably be a human guinea pig or one of those people painted silver doing the robot dance in the high street.

 

[DaGaffer]

Smug or not a masterplan of "well Ill just waste the next year and hope for the best" is bloody stupid.

No its not. The guy is what, 21-22? Hardly a problem; and it automatically assumes the year will be a "waste", which you don't know.

 

[rynnor]

Actually I think drifting into a Masters degree just because you dont know what to do next could backfire - its possible this could even hurt your chances with employers unless you make it sound a lot better than you did here?

I'd advise speaking seriously to the University's careers advisers and trying to work out what you'd enjoy doing as a job then work out what you need to get there - be it experience or further studies?

Speaking as a person with a business degree I'd have to say that a business studies masters has to be one of the least desirable ones as it doesnt really equip you for anything specifically and most graduate recruiting is based on first degree classification.

I'm also not aware of any job that requires a business studies masters specifically?

 

[Draylor]

I'm loathed to agree with Draylor because he's being a bit blunt and not too concerned with pleasantries, but

Thanks

 

[Garaen]

First work out what you want to do, then do whatever is required to get you there.

That's so much easier said than done. I've been thinking about 'what i want to do' for the past 8 months and i'm drawing up nothing. I've considered Damini's idea of doing some temping work long and hard but a part of me feels it would be a waste of time because i won't be making a career out of it. I've worked every spare day i've had during my degree so i've come out of Uni without any debts so having to worry about repaying debts isn't an issue.

I've had a look at the world of business consultancy and it looks interesting. If you take a look at the McKinsey & Co page you'll see that all members have either an MSc or an M.B.A (which requires 3 years full time work experience before you can undertake one). I've got a drive to be somewhat succesful and the thought of just temping and doing unchallenging work doesn't appeal to me.

Here's a question, how/at what age did you guys realise what you wanted to do as a career and how did you come about at that decision?

 

[rynnor]

Here's a question, how/at what age did you guys realise what you wanted to do as a career and how did you come about at that decision?

When I was doing my first degree I came to realise I was more interested in IT than what I was studying. I managed to get into a Graduate entry programming job and have been happy with my choice ever since.

It was a close thing though - I still quite liked Marketing and was pretty good at it (Modest eh ) - at one point I had offers for both a Graduate entry Marketing job and the programming job so my life could have been rather different but I have thoroughly enjoyed IT and have worked with a lot of great people

 

[Damini]

That's so much easier said than done. I've been thinking about 'what i want to do' for the past 8 months and i'm drawing up nothing. I've considered Damini's idea of doing some temping work long and hard but a part of me feels it would be a waste of time because i won't be making a career out of it. I've worked every spare day i've had during my degree so i've come out of Uni without any debts so having to worry about repaying debts isn't an issue.

...

I've got a drive to be somewhat succesful and the thought of just temping and doing unchallenging work doesn't appeal to me.

Hey, nobody said go be a filing clerk for a year Most people I know have found their career by trying a job they didn't think would be permanent, and discovering part of it they really enjoyed, and pursuing that line. You don't have to get temp work, you don't have to get a job licking envelopes - you don't have to say "I'm planning to do a masters in a years time". Apply for jobs you don't think you'll get in a million years, apply for jobs doing things completely left field but that sound thoroughly enjoyable, apply for jobs that will play to your strengths or appease your curiousity. If you know you're going to go for a masters in a years time then enjoy the chance to experiment while knowing you have a secret get out clause lined up.

Truth be told though, you sound like you've made up your mind anyway

 

[DaGaffer]

I've had a look at the world of business consultancy and it looks interesting. If you take a look at the McKinsey & Co page you'll see that all members have either an MSc or an M.B.A (which requires 3 years full time work experience before you can undertake one). I've got a drive to be somewhat succesful and the thought of just temping and doing unchallenging work doesn't appeal to me.

Unless your first university is Oxbridge, forget McKinsey. I've worked with quite a few McKinsey consultants over the years and 99% of them are *****, and the work regime doesn't help; every year they bin the "bottom" 50% of their consultants (based on billing I think), which doesn't exactly make for a sane working environment. To be honest I'm underwhelmed by most Management Consultancy firms, but if you want to have no life and burnout by 35, go for it. Oh, and never do an MBA straight from college; you should have at least 5 years' work experience to make it worth while.

Here's a question, how/at what age did you guys realise what you wanted to do as a career and how did you come about at that decision?

I didn't make the first determined decision about exactly what I wanted to do until I was nearly 30! I didn't go to Uni until I was 23, didn't finish until I was 27, and I was 29 before I found a career path I really wanted to pursue. It did me very little harm, and actually quite a lot of good (and I've done fairly well financially). Would it have been better to know exactly what I wanted to do when I was 18? Possibly, but I know a lot of my contemporaries who've got to their late thirties are in good jobs and are desperate to do something else.

Its difficult to say "yes, absolutely" that you should do a Masters, because I don't know how old you are, your first degree, where you did it, and where you intend to do the MSc, but I will say that if you feel an MSc will get you on a proper graduate training programme, then it is worthwhile; in the corporate world, that kind of formal graduate training is valued highly; by starting my career with a proper blue-chip company (and my MSc definitely helped me do that) it meant I tended to work for those kind of companies in the future, which in turn meant I got more training and development, more exposure to "big company" senior management, and better prospects leading to better jobs.

 

[pez]

I've recently got on to a graduate scheme with HSBC.

Good points I had were the entry requirement of a 2.1 and more importantly the fact that all through uni I worked part time and I held positions of responsibility.

A masters never came up and the only thing that held me back were my A-Levels, due to my lack of a B in maths (got an E) I had to do commercial banking rather than corporate.

MSc in Business Management seems very vague, would it not be better to do one in accounting and finance or something else more vocational?

personally I would say just get a job in anything, get some experience and some ideas then in 1 or 2 years you can either go back and do a masters or start the career you want properly.