Master levels

[Ballard]

Master levels. I know the evils / benefits have been discussed to death, but after the relative success of the flexibility of CL's does anyone else think they should be moved to a similar but slightly different system?

For example what I was thinking was;
- if you do the steps/quests you get instant credit upon completion of all 10 steps for the level.
- or altenatively you could kill purp cons for mlxp or earn rvr mlxp (as it is earnt currently). However upon filling each ml bar you would earn the ml level without doing the steps.


The main reasons I would suggest such a change;

- is it is very difficult to gain some of the grp steps on certain classes (like assasins).
- 99% of the population has probably done all the ml steps multiple times. Is there really any need to force them to continously retread the same old quests?
- Most people seem to enjoy the way CL's work, why not follow what the punters like rather than dislike?

 

[Andrilyn]

Would upset the die-hard PvE'ers too much or the people who got 10 ML10's already and did it "the hard way".

 

[Alan]

The stuff you get for ML's way exceeds those skills from CL's

Also MLXP is really easy to farm, I like the idea (either do the quests or grind the XP instead) but the xp would need to be increased ... ALOT

 

[judas]

Yes remove the damn steps and id come back to playing and rolling new stuff.

have loads of lvl50s but cba to get ml's on them as i dont have the time and going on ml raids is the most boring thing in daoc.

Allso give epic armor w/o having to do allot of quests etc. only takes allot of my time that i dont have.

I rather grind to get ml/cl's etc and the chose for my own with other pve/rvr to do.

 

[Ballard]

The stuff you get for ML's way exceeds those skills from CL's

I wouldnt necessarily agree with that, its more dependent on what class you are.

For example: On minstrel;
CL1-10 = 250 odd hitpoints, 10% to all magic resists, dmg add and more.
Mls = water breath, a nerfed FZ and nerfed phase shift.

On a class like a mentalist, ML's are next to worthless.

For certain classes however, yes ml's are better.

 

[psyco]

eventually it'll happen, but FH isn't going to make it happen any faster

 

[Ballard]

eventually it'll happen, but FH isn't going to make it happen any faster

Ye I know mate. Just getting some more opinions before I submit it to mythic. I know there is a 99.9% chance it will be ignored but while there is that .01% chance I will still send it

 

[psyco]

Ye I know mate. Just getting some more opinions before I submit it to mythic. I know there is a 99.9% chance it will be ignored but while there is that .01% chance I will still send it

fare enough, personally i think the constant patch's changing various aspects of the game is to much... making it easy to get a RvR toon ready, and demolishing the PvE aspect of the game...

daoc always had the perfect balance of RvR and PvE, and now its becoming more and more RvR orientated... and i dont like that

imo they should have done more testing to ensure a balance of class's before release, then leave them alone, occasionally changing/de-oping class's at are over powered

now that would mean eliminating buffbots, or giving everyone a free one... and making high end items more excessable for casual players

... and focusing on bugs in patch's, this would leave them more time to add content in expansions, and listening to the players to give us/them what we want

it is my personal opinion that there would be a far larger player database if they did this, they would have to release a DAoC2 due to the large change's needed

given, they are evidentially trying there best, but they wont be able to do that unless they back check, and i dont see that happening

 

[old.Whoodoo]

Kinda defeats the object of the MLs, and PVE all together if you just got to RR5 and had all the toys you wanted, MLs, RAs, CLs etc.

We recently ran a group of randoms through all the ML group steps, including 4 hunters, a 44 shaman, a 48 warlock, a 46 SM and some randoms, and did them with ease, so saying its not possible isnt true.

This is another request for easymode insta RvR toon, which goes against what MMORPGs are all about, where a fine balance of PvE and PvP should be found. So many threads are asking for all the PvE to go away, which doesnt fit the genre at all, as 50% of the players like PvE and enjoy a challange.

While some freeshards offer what you ask for, many who play them also get bored quickly, as everyone tends to have the same abilities, theres no variance on playstyles, and it becomes very much of a rinse and repeat arrangement of killing an enemy, dying, release, repeat until bored.

If its instant PvP you want, perhaps an FPS is more what you seek.

 

[Ballard]

Kinda defeats the object of the MLs, and PVE all together if you just got to RR5 and had all the toys you wanted, MLs, RAs, CLs etc.

We recently ran a group of randoms through all the ML group steps, including 4 hunters, a 44 shaman, a 48 warlock, a 46 SM and some randoms, and did them with ease, so saying its not possible isnt true.

This is another request for easymode insta RvR toon, which goes against what MMORPGs are all about, where a fine balance of PvE and PvP should be found. So many threads are asking for all the PvE to go away, which doesnt fit the genre at all, as 50% of the players like PvE and enjoy a challange.

While some freeshards offer what you ask for, many who play them also get bored quickly, as everyone tends to have the same abilities, theres no variance on playstyles, and it becomes very much of a rinse and repeat arrangement of killing an enemy, dying, release, repeat until bored.

If its instant PvP you want, perhaps an FPS is more what you seek.

Indeed you have strong reading skills.

How is farming for scrolls, doing artifact encounters, searching for rare mythrian items, one time lotm drops, completing DR quests and spending time working out and perfecting a template insta easy mode rvr?

Having personally done master levels for almost 8 characters now I think that is more of a 'rinse and repeat arrangement ' to quote your language. To think any different is blatentenly untrue.

Nowhere did I say that ml steps were 'impossible' for certain classes. But they certainly can be agravating especially if you play a solo character outside of normal peak hours.

If the model of choosing RvR or Pve and a method of advancement is so unwanted, how is that people actually like the DR expansion and dislike TOA so much? And mythic are moving completely towards that path with warhammer...


Please interpret this however you want, as it is clear from your last post that wild tangents are your forte.

 

[Galadry]

After getting ML10 on three characters a while back now I just couldnt face doing the BG steps again for a long while. They used to take hours and hours and did my head in! Group steps were okay because they were short although I never wanted to do 5 or 7 more than once in a blue moon. I drew the line and decided not to do MLs on all my characters.

I think this was a big part in making me decide to focus on one or two characters full stop rather than my usual habit of trying every class under the sun.

However I must admit after taking a break and doing some BG steps again how smooth it is these days. It may be a combination of nerfs to some steps and the fact that by now people have learnt all the tricks to make things go smoothly. Also as I've had a break things seem less tiresome.

The other big difference for me is how easy it is to get MLxp now! I used to insist on doing ML BG steps in the right order to maximise getting MLxp. Now I do BG steps as and when I have time and can find a raid.

I still wouldnt want to do MLs on all my characters but with the changes I am more likely now to go on raids than in the past. However I'd be picky which char I take - i.e. only one who i.e. would actually benefit from the ML abilities (e.g. a cabby for the ML9, a cleric - perfector line is great!)

I'm not sure if I would like to see ML BG steps easier to do in terms of how hard monsters are as I think some improvements have already been made there.

I do however feel sorry for people who can only play outside of standard times when raids are run or who are on servers or realms where raids are not run very often at all.

 

[Galadry]

For those people who cant do raids very often (because of playing out of standard hours or being in a low pop realm) I'm not quite sure what could improve this.

I know some BG steps can be done by much smaller groups - I'm thinking Flames step of ML7 which we've done with a non-standard guild group more than once (the first time by accident!), and certainly most of ML1. Some steps are doable by one class (e.g. focus caster and/or ML9 pet) and a healer. I also think putting in teleport stones in strategic places helps people just pop in and do a bit of a BG. I'm not quite sure off the top of my head just how many BG steps can be done with a group. Maybe there's more than one would realise. I think when you just go round in a big zerg you dont think that the steps would be doable with anything less.

However that still leaves the "big" end bosses, which would usually tend to need more. But even then, with the right classes - I'm thinking things like theurgs/valks+thanes to spam on the bosses - people do things like 2 group ML 10 steps.

 

[Awarkle]

i recently ran 50 people through the whole battlegroup mls from 1 to 9 in a weekend.

Starting at 12.00 i normally finished around 7 to 8 ish i know thats a long time on mls however when before it used to take up to 3 hours per ml thats far far better than how it was.

Now ok i know hibernia has animists to assist with mls however midgard has the valk/thane buff which does make a difference (ive tried it) and albion has theugist.

If your finding that the mls are not around when your online playing then i recomend you organise a ml a night instead of doing it all in one go.

Ml1 takes about 45 minutes and now you can buy the components you dont even have to go farm the ruby you can just buy them.

Ml2 takes about the same time depending on how lucky you are

ml3 takes at least an hour maybe longer just because its ml3 and a pain in the arse

ml4 is the hard one HOWEVER when i saw the fortress of storms the nerfing its taken i think this one should take no longer than 20 minutes the other steps can be done in a fullgroup.

ml5 is 1 step should have the group steps already done if your finding it hard on your assasin i recomend you ask your guild for help.

ml6 pretty stright forward watch out for the minotaur spam and exploding doors.

ml7 is probbly the hardest due to typhon but as long as you have a good balanced group and a archer to keep him interupted as he pops up and down he should be doable. (make sure casters keep the flame interupted)

ml8 straight forward fairly easy

ml9 hardest with the phoneix and assasins learn how distract works. and its easy.

Mls are easier now than ever ill probbly be running another ml raid in march time for all the new maulers that will be appearing

 

[old.Whoodoo]

Indeed you have strong reading skills.

How is farming for scrolls, doing artifact encounters, searching for rare mythrian items, one time lotm drops, completing DR quests and spending time working out and perfecting a template insta easy mode rvr?

Having personally done master levels for almost 8 characters now I think that is more of a 'rinse and repeat arrangement ' to quote your language. To think any different is blatentenly untrue.

Nowhere did I say that ml steps were 'impossible' for certain classes. But they certainly can be agravating especially if you play a solo character outside of normal peak hours.

If the model of choosing RvR or Pve and a method of advancement is so unwanted, how is that people actually like the DR expansion and dislike TOA so much? And mythic are moving completely towards that path with warhammer...


Please interpret this however you want, as it is clear from your last post that wild tangents are your forte.

All quite true, maybe I wrote in haste (I feel like shit at work, sympathy please someone!).

TOA is hated by most because it is a grind, the MLs are better now, easier and faster once you have the ML tools, but it is still as we both put it "rinse and repeat".

Thinking of how WAR is progressing in the manner you mention now makes sense of how you think, sorry if I read your intentions wrong. However changing it now in DAoC will be one of those things we hear all so often in games "you got that idea from xxxx", and it will also mean when it happens in WAR it will be one of those "yeah nothing new here" or "you just got that from DAoC" things.

I must admit DAoC has become an RVR heavy game, and so the majority will probably agree with you, and to a degree I do too, but Im also a sucker for PvE.

One suggestion I always liked someone suggested about the DR quest, do it on one toon, then do a sub quest to unlock the skills on your other toons rather than spending hours redoing it. Maybe this could apply to MLs too?

 

[Awarkle]

the problem with having mls completable by a quest is that

1. new player joins the games gets to 50
2. new player goes hey who wants to do mls
3. old players go no thanks we just do this little quest
4. new player cant possibly solo the mls on his own.

What i would prefer is if the mls allowed you to hire extra npc guards that you could use and set up much like the chess game so there is some degree of strategy involved.

So that if your mr assasin you can set up to do the mls but you hire your zerg and then go through the ml that way.

I do enjoy mls i just wish people wouldnt go afk or start doing the "hey we doing this step wrong" although i think the next run im not going to have the loot split because i ended up with so much

 

[Aiteal]

never got beyond ML3 on any of my chars
PvE is like pulling teeth

There should be some way for chars to earn ML abilities in RvR
This is after all, an RvR game.
Until the recent ML9 pet nerf, and even with that in mind, many abilities had full use in RvR yet were useless in PvE
They were designed with RvR in mind yet required PvE to achieve them.

Having a low RR toon beat a higher RR toon purely because of ML's gained in PvE is stupid.

RvR has a risk/reward balance, PvE has less of a risk and thanks to ML's greater rewards in many cases.

 

[Flimgoblin]

I liked TOA and found DR pretty forgettable but I'm odd

I've done MLs many a time, yet can't seem to bring myself to do any more rounds of the circle of 5...

 

[Bugz]

the problem with having mls completable by a quest is that

1. new player joins the games gets to 50
2. new player goes hey who wants to do mls
3. old players go no thanks we just do this little quest
4. new player cant possibly solo the mls on his own.

What i would prefer is if the mls allowed you to hire extra npc guards that you could use and set up much like the chess game so there is some degree of strategy involved.

So that if your mr assasin you can set up to do the mls but you hire your zerg and then go through the ml that way.

I do enjoy mls i just wish people wouldnt go afk or start doing the "hey we doing this step wrong" although i think the next run im not going to have the loot split because i ended up with so much

The stream of new players in the game is pretty much non-existant.

Mythic would be better off trying to keep the customer base content & happy rather than trying to bring more people into the game.

 

[Lamp]

I'm doing ML10 on Excal this weekend then thats it for me. Boring. Time consuming. Ah heck, you all know the score by now.

 

[Ballard]

I can see the future

 

[psyco]

I can see the future

eh?

 

[Ctuchik]

The stream of new players in the game is pretty much non-existant.

Mythic would be better off trying to keep the customer base content & happy rather than trying to bring more people into the game.

they are extreamly few, yes. but they DO exist. but the oh so newbie friendly current playerbase we do(nt) have tells them to take their money and go somwhere else.

and i dont care if we can offer them PL. thats not what they usually want. they want to do the quests, explore and enjoy the game. not sit at whatever FOTM PL spot and semi AFK for 12 hours and then go out to be RP cows for the FG's.