Maps

V

vuz

Guest
One of the things I would like to improve upon is the maps for next season
I would like to somehow reach a compromise between the range which is achieved from the current way of maps prechosen per week, and clans preferences like they have in clanbase

any suggestions?
 
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old.TGC Snow

Guest
the current system is good

i was very heavily opposed to badlands before we played it, but i must now admit that it is a pretty good clan match map.

now we get to see what epicenter and warpath are gonna be like :)

what would be interesting next season would be the return of some old favourites like Totalwar, which we've only ever played once in a match, but was great fun. another interesting map which i've never managed to play in a match is Bases_R...

u c, i'm sure everyone's getting to the stage where we need more variety in TFC... and unusual maps like that would possibly extend the enjoyment of TFC for both new and more experienced clans.

I think, though, that in the playoffs, clans should choose maps using the clanbase system, with another randomly chosen map to be used in the event of a draw.
 
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old.Round[DONut]

Guest
You are doing a great job ViruZ. Arranging a league is damn hard.

A few things I would suggest for the next season.

maps: Make a vote just as you did last, but plz don't change it, just because a new perhaps exiting map has arrived. Make a set of rules, like maps needs aleast 5 or 10 votes to get picked. Variety is good, but you can't play 32 different maps during a 16 weeks league. Nothing wrong with playing the same map a couble of times. 10 or 12 maps should be enough in my opponion.

Fixtures: I would really prefer fixed fixtures. Clan X play Clan Y in week Z. This will ensure 2 things. 1. Clans _will_ have to be active in the league. 2. Teams cant avoid a certain map in a certain weeks

REfs: In every game.. should be interesting.. We need more mature refs then!
 
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old.[ATO]Insomnia

Guest
Viruz, Round's idea sound familar? :)
 
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old.Alexia

Guest
I agree with Round although I would suggest as well :

- state somewhere something about fairplay... definitely needed and it is a lot more fun when games are sportively played

- maybe discuss again about class limitations... when we off against 3 HW 2 SG and 1 demo there are no fun... and this was done after the first map was won by the other team... I agree to play the victory until a certain extent...

- bookings : when teams are booking servers could we enter the opponents name ? or tick if it is for praccy or friendly or other purposes ? Just to prioritize league games...

Just some little improvements I am currently thinking of but overall this a great league !

Thx for the wonderful job Viruz and thx again to the team we played against... see you in Season2 :)


Al
 
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old.TGC Snow

Guest
good points Alexia

1) Ask BW for server logging. If anyone complains about the other clan's behaviour in a match, u can read the logs. 1 or 2 point punishments for abuse seem fair to me.

I'm sure sledging/verbal abuse during a game can sometimes be enough to give the exponents an edge over their opponents.

2) Snipers should be limited to 0. HWGuys should be limited to 1. If anyone disagrees then they are llamas. PERHAPS a limit of 2 for hwguys, but even that is too extreme imho.
 
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old.Round[DONut]

Guest
Well, I disagree. Sorry but i do. Every clan must be able to play the game anyway the want. But If clans insist on play with snipers (which are completly useless) and HWguys, then you can be sure of one thing. They won't win anything!
 
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old.[SC]Malignant

Guest
Clans should be allowed to have whatever classes they want in their team. Football teams keep playing long ball these days but you don't see the FA put a ban on it. If people hate Snipers and HWG then alter your clans tactics to combat those difficult situations.

There are 9 classes in TFC there is no need to make it 7 just for clan matches.
 
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old.TGC Snow

Guest
round, that is not true what u said about HWGuys. A team =can= and =will= win, if their HWGs are good.

a v.good HWG is better than a v.good Sol (in most circumstances).

It isn't a case of changing your tactics - an hwguy in water on rock2, and an hwguy at main ent... what dya do? conc to sniper window? that's very hard to pull off...

as for snipers

i agree they're gonna make teams lose. So i suppose there isn't a point in putting a limit on them. And i guess an offensive sniper can be quite a skilful class.

Malignant: long ball is a tactic, as is spamming or respawn piping. Using a fat man with a big auto-cannon to kill the other team's keeper is controllable, and therefore =should= be controlled.
 
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old.[BC]Afx

Guest
I think the system this season works fine,Certain weeks certain maps....No room for misinterpretation.
Id like to see a few different maps used though,It seems most leagues nowadays use same old ones.....BC have got a map used in a lot've US leagues runnin on our server(195.149.21.16:27025)called mulch_trench,Its a standard CTF,But since most people wont have played it,I think it'll make nice change.
I do however think badlands should be dropped since its quite easy to lock down and just seems to turn into a spam fest :(


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[BC]Afx

BODYCOUNT
 
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old.Round[DONut]

Guest
Snow I know the problem I've tried it, but still it is my understanding that you will have to be a skill full players/team to pull that HWguy thingie of. Take the case of Rock2, as you mentioned, 1 HWguy in water and one in main entrance. That will mean 2 things. Either they have only 2 man garding the key, and then when you get through and you will if you are good enough, then they are fucked and will loose the map. Or it means that they still have 4 guys garding the key, which then count to 6 man on D and unless you are playing a 12 vs 12 they wont win the map. Yea sure they will draw it, but then we all know about that team and will be sure to avoid them in the future.
 
V

vuz

Guest
Right, thanku for your replies, Snow giving the kinda reply i wanted, altho i'll remind him we did vote earlier in the season on class limits and clans voted against imposing limits.
Anyway, maps, wot I would like to do (tell me if it sucks) is say clan A plays clan B between date A and date B on map 4.
That way clans all play all the maps, and if the game is postponed or replayed for some amazing reason the map doesn't change.
I like the idea of clans choose play off maps, that's cool. Also I agree that the range of maps should not be tooooooo great, and should include some different maps, i disagree with Totalwar (requires a 2 man defence, the reason it isn't used much).

OK, keep replies coming :)
 
V

vuz

Guest
:)

[This message has been edited by ViRuZ (edited 31 July 2000).]
 
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old.RAiN

Guest
Totalwar = Totalshite

Too many clans already play for the draw and this map just takes the piss for that. That 1 narrow passage to the flag just turns into a spam pit and the vast distance beetween bases meens that the D are already up and spamming by the time u return.

however mulch trench is class, most league ppl prolly wont have heard of it, so i suggest maybe having an open playtest on all the suggeested maps, and allowing those who actually turn up to test them the right to vote on what maps should be in the league.

RAiN
 
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old.Round[DONut]

Guest
URL to Muld Trench??? gimme gimme. I would like to try it out!
 
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old.Alexia

Guest
and 2much is a nice one too imo.
as is nml3.
never heard about muld trench... so as Round... where can I dld it plz ?

Al
 
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old.[BC]eat

Guest
ok ive got a bit of a wacky idea but just give it a chance ... :)

First of all, you have a list of say 8 maps.
For a clan match each team chooses one map from the list to be played. Each clan can only choose to play a certain map twice over the season. Obviously this does not mean u can only play each map twice over the season, because your opposition also chooses one map. And another rule - you have to choose what maps you play each clan on BEFORE the season starts.... this just makes things easier.
I havent really thought this through and its probably a wank idea but here are some of the outcomes that i can fore-see:
-clans can play maps they arent very good at against teams that they think they can beat and save their favourite maps for the harder teams.
-erm had some more stuff but forgot.

Looking back this is all a bad idea but ive written it now so i might aswell hit the submit button :D
 
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old.[BC]eat

Guest
O yeah a few more points to add from what the rest of you have said....

I think there should be a HWguy limit of 2 per team - anymore is just shite. As for snipers (Round + Snow listen up u fools :p), well they are not a threat to your sanity in large numbers, and are not completely useless (Ak47 have a permenant sniper on well - and spruce kicks ass).

My choices of maps would have to include:
Mulch_trench - ace map but FR is a little dark :(

Openfire - very fun map and as its name suggests its "open".

Monkey - a true CTF map although you can conc out of the water route i have discovered, which is a fault.

Dustbowl - maybe in the final week or something.

Drop the following maps for being terminally crap:
Warpath - a good map but R_speeds make it too laggy.

Epicenter - how the fuck are you supposed to defend this map with soldiers walking around on the roof opposite the APC?

Badlands - takes an eternity to get to the NME base and has lost its edge post-TF1.5.

Crossover2 - IMO the bridge is too much of a choke point where a HW can be put to ruin a game.

Fucksake2 - the respawns have to be placed in the worst possible place and there are far too many grenades to be had.
 
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old.TGC Snow

Guest
in answer to Eat:

I agree with your view on Crossover2, but that is about it. Fucksake2 now has a version where telefragging and "ease-of-spam" have been greatly reduced - if Viruz is prepared to have UKSL banners in the outdoor area (which frankly i think he should, because it is a DEAD league after all) then that map would be great.

Epicenter - played 2 games on it, and both were absolutely fantastic. Brilliant map, keep it in. We had a sol defending our roof in the second game, so i don't see the roof thing being a problem.

Badlands - thought it was shit, but actually it isn't bad, and adds variety to a season.

Warpath - if problems are fixed with prematch, this will be superb.

Now for the ones you recommended.... well

Openfire - you can conc from battlements straight through the beams. AGL did this against BIA in UKSL, and BIA's defence basically didn't have a hope.

Mulch Trench - hmmmmmmmz.... i will hold judgement on this one until i've played it properly, but the fact that the battlements are v hard to get up to (i had to use either a v good HH conc, or a double conc from the trench) you are then left with 2, fairly narrow, and fairly spammable doors... but that's just my views without having played it, so i'll see what's like l8r

Dustbowl - ok, this map would be fun. Maybe you could put this map in week 11 or summat, so clans aren't forced to play it, but can if they want a laugh.
 
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old.[BC]Afx

Guest
Bah I put a link to mulch trench in my forum post further up :p
I think monkey by the cheese is a class map,And its just been put in rotaion on our server 195.149.21.16:27025 :D
One question,Why cant many of you see beyond the valve maps? Id personally much rather see the likes of monkey and Mulch_trench played next season than Epicenter and warpath...Lets have some new maps that arent played on every single server out there and maybe next season will be something to remember.


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[BC]Afx

BODYCOUNT

[This message has been edited by [BC]Afx (edited 06 August 2000).]
 
A

Atomic Rammer

Guest
Re: epicenter

A&I had some great games on epicenter in pool A - some of the best games of the whole league I think. Unfortunately since we got beat twice on it I have become somewhat of an expert on this map and have discovered some things that make the map fairly unplayable for a clan match.

The sol on the roof is a good trick but u dont even need to use it. I have discovered about 4 places that you can jump from, well spaced out over the area near the apc. Once you get good at it you cap without even touching the ground. The jumps are fast enough to cap without an sg anywhere tracking you.

Just to make it clearer you can do these jumps from the boxes near the side respawn, the first floor of the ruins by the rubble pile, the wall far behind the chain fence, and the ruined building near the apc. This is quite a wide area to have to defend against and once you get to any of these you've capped bar a timing cockup.

Its only a matter of time before people find these and make the games played on this map no fun to play at all.
 
V

vuz

Guest
Round up:

Alexia: "- bookings : when teams are booking servers could we enter the opponents name ? "
This shouldn't be a problem, there will also be a fixtures page with both clans names, dates, maps, and ref.

Snow: "Ask BW for server logging."
Have done and there new system will almost certainly mean we have logs. :)

"Snipers should be limited to 0. HWGuys should be limited to 1"
Lots of people are asking for it, it will be brought up in the next meeting, but having thought about it I can see both sides of the argument, any team using snipers is destined to loose for a start...

Round: "Well, I disagree.."
Umm, a vote needed...

Afx: "I think the system this season works fine,Certain weeks certain maps....No room for misinterpretation."
With set times for games, I think the maps for the games could also be decided upon, absolutely no room for misinterpretation..

"Id like to see a few different maps used though"
Yep, me too- I "hope" to see CZ2, Fortsake2 and Badlands out for a start, but votes...

RAiN: "Totalwar = Totalshite"
The point is that it can't be used for a serious competition cos it is so easy to defend.

Eat: "First of all, you have a list of say 8 maps......."
This is interesting, exactly wot I was thinking, where clans get some choice, but can't just play 2fort 20 times. But unless it can be explained more simply it seems to hard to improvise.

SYDEEREAL: "A&I had some great games on epicenter..."
Epicenter can be fun but it really is a shite map to be honest (wh00ps, the vital its my opinion thingy), vote...

anyway, I about to start new threads, which maps, I need suggested maps and links to them so I can get them up to bwtfcl servers.
Thx
 
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