mana eldritch questions

[flisa]

this is to all mana eldritch's and im asking what u think of mana for RvR? how much damage u do and ect..
thx for all answers!

 

[old.giriam]

i havent tested it *too* much yet but the L50 DD seem average around 420 on tankpeople (and the snare is neato). the aoe debuff is in effect an instant root/snare of weaker classes. subtracts a little HP from them aswell which is a nice side-effect i havent had a chance to see if it interrupts casting and/or breaks speed yet.

stunning people and running up to them to pbaoe is no longer a real option, the stun is too short and you will just get hammered, but the DD+snare works just fine.

and ofcourse if you find yourself in a standoff inside a keep pbaoe can dash out some real damage.

im 50 mana 19 light (i think). the nearsight is semi usefull, good enough for normal casters and bolters but if you cast it on an enemy nearsighter, chances are you are still within his range

All in all im really happy with it, the bread and butter of a caster is the DD, and it nukes for a lot more damage than void ever did and has a snare for your enjoyment aswell.

G

 

[Novamir]

and remember you get those COOL aoe snare DD, and aoe str/con insta debuff!

 

[Danya]

It's AE attack speed debuff DD not AE snare.

 

[old.Charonel]

it changes to aoe snare DD in a future patch, can't quite remember which but it's already live on US servers , looking forward to that

 

[lofff]

yeh, actually i think mana eld > light eld on rvr (with incoming mezz nerfs etc)

Also its more versatile... (nearsight, debuff, etc etc)

 

[lofff]

ah... void elds...


/backs off and hides

 

[old.giriam]

I havent actually tested the aoe dd/attack speed debuff, the base damage was so low that i didnt bother to put it up on the QB at all. you cant cast it during a group(s) vs group(s) fight since you'd be breaking mez all over the place (4 sec cast time, if you can get it off before the bard casts mez then you need a new bard), and in a mile gate/keep stand off there are better alternatives.

the only time i can picture it being actually usefull is that moment when the enemy zerges through the mile gate, cast it at a door and everyone that comes through have a 18% attackspeed reduction.. but then there is the mez again...

same goes for disease, a waste of QB space.

G

 

[exc_hib_boo]

Disease + str/con debuff plus your favorite mentalists ae dot can take care of a relic size force, with added pbaoe power if they get too close.

Do not underestimate the power of your tools and what they can do in the right circumstances with the right teammates.

 

[Danya]

Mmmm AE dot and watch the RPs flow in.

 

[old.giriam]

given the right conditions anything is usefull

i was refering to normal skirmish fights, in a keep defense the situation might be a bit different.

although, disease + str/con debuff gives no further reduction in constitution compared the str/con debuff alone (which ive allready agreed is a very usefull spell), so im guessing that you're counting on the heals being poorer or the healer spending time on removing the disease and thus having less time to heal?
anyway a healer that knows what he is doing should be well equiped to save a group from DOTs, disease or no disease.

G

 

[exc_hib_boo]

AE DOT + AE Disease = healers nightmare, yes. They should run OOM fast.

FG vs FG skirmish is about killing as fast as you can with as small risk as possible, protecting the vital classes in the group, easy huh?

 

[Danya]

disease + dot on 20 people is going to be a right pain for healers. All heals are 50% unless you sure disease, everyone is taking damage unless you sure poison, the dot is potentially interrupting you, no one can regen hp unless you cure disease, if you stop to cure disease / poison half the mages might die, etc. etc.

 

[old.Charonel]

like the other poster said, dont underestimate your abilities, i know you were talking about a different situation but dont think any of your spells are a waste of time, trust me there's a use for everything.

now mana elds are THE siege class in hib, they may lack certain things the other elds have for open combat, like bolts or an uber powerfull DD (although i'm still in love with the snare DD ), but for sieges they're scary, main reason is that a lot of their spells greatly increase others downtime in some way, ie debuffs etc... which in turn decreases their ability to defend/attack the keep, for this example i'm taking the 50 mana, rest light template as the "normal" mana eldritch.

the reason that the above makes it good for siege is that they're long drawn out battles, with the victor usually decided by whoever is first and best able to wear down the opponents ability to defend/attack (bledemere anyone?), if your defending, and you manage to, overtime beat down the enemies ability to absorb and return your attack, you can get out and kill them, or beat them back away from the keep and maybe do it then, if attacking then if you do that you will have free reign to take down the doors at leisure and break in, killing any inside, but it's when each force has full ability to fight that keep sieges go nowhere (considering roughly eaqual numbers), and it's this situation which mana elds are best at altering.

PBAOE, obvious use for killing door attackers/repairers, not to mention farming realm points but that's not the point . also lord room defence etc... (although gtaoe changes this somewhat), it's probably one of their simpler spells, just a "whack em hard" kinda thing, but having to constantly heal/res people is a pain .

INSTA DEBUFFS, great for hitting archers/mages on the walls, give them these and you blunt their attacks somewhat, no casting time means you can be stunning/nuking/debuffing at the same time as you use these. another use for the insta str/con debuff is against door repairers, most of the door reparirers i've ever seen, get so laden down with wood from everyone that they can barely move, they often drop enough to get out of the way of aoe DD's etc..., but keep a lot of wood too... hitting the door with an insta aoe Str/con debuff just before pbaoe woudl be a killer.invaluable.

STUN, (general hib caster stun, gives enough time for your force to pour bolts/DD's/arrows into them before they can drop behing the walls again)

AOE MEZZ, if archers are shooting stealthed from the walls and your sick of never quite killing them before they get out of view, then if one other caster aoe DD's an NPC archer, and you aoe mezz etc..., you should catch some unstelathed scouts/hunters ond the top of the wall, with a well coordinated group they should be easy pickings

NEARSIGHT, obvious, wonderfull thing, having played both a caster and archer in keep defences, i HATE this , it effectively puts those classes out of action (archer more than caster since casters tend to be more versatile, but depends how they're specced) for about two minuits before they can do much of anything again.

AOE DD SNARE, (were close to getting it changed from aoe DD attckspeed debuff to aoe DD snare so i'm taking it as that), whilst perhaps not the most damaging of aoe DD's (pretty pants actually ), having the ability to snare the hell out of most people attacking from the walls in one go limits their ability to move around inside very well, meaning slower reaction time getting up and down from firing positions etc..., aoe snaring the paboers/repairers before pbaoeing could make that extra hit possible... also it's extremely annoying to have to run around that slowly, making it frustrating for them inside/outside, which is sweet

AOE DISEASE, well now there's this little beauty, the proverbial DADDY of keep fighting in my oppinion, if there's one spell that's gonna stealdily wear down the entire force at once, this is it, so, what's it do? well firstly it stops you from healing naturally, meaning heals or group/castable regen only for getting those hits back, halfs all heals casted onto the target, meaning that the healers burn twice the power. completely stops natural regen of power [EDIT, doesnt happen, can't be bothered rewriting it so just ignore the bits about no mana regen, wierd though because i'm almost certain i rembmer it being like that... but last time i was regularly diseased was back in 1.32/1.36 so it was a while ago , we tested it tonight on 1.52 and you definately regen mana while diseased], meaning those enemy pbers, healers etc... will VERY soon be OOM, especially the healers because they burn twice the power on heals to boot and would have to keep curing themselves constantly thanks to your aoe disease spamming fun , also means more problems for them ressing, problems for them healing the ressed, the ressed, once diseased would, if not healed, have a LONG time before they could risk coming back within bowshot/bolt range due to them staying as a one hit kill for quite a while due to barely any hit points... casters, once newly ressed would be able to do little with no power, or only mcl as the ability to get some etc... then there's it's obvious use hitting npc archers to catch the scouts/hunters with it on the walls, further increasing the time it takes for them to get back up. if i remember right, disease (whenever i've had it hit on me) allways gives a snare like effect too, which is annoying to those effected.

also we tested tonight and found that when diseased, all HoT spells are nullified completely, no matter how powerfull they are.

 

[old.Charonel]

now obviously, with gtoae in the game, paboeing everything is less of on option now, but that's what aoe disease is for remember, keeping them oom all the time is one of the main things for stopping them from "absorbing and returning" your attack when the time comes to kill them.

personally i like mana elds because of one reason, there's a lot you can do with them, which makes them interesting, it's not just a hundered different types of DD's , it's all sorts of "tools" for various situations, and that's what makes them fun to play for me anyway.

thinking of it, gtaoe really did belong in the mana line rather than void (considering it's use), but since void was pretty bare of anything other than damage spells (it's a damage spell yes, but i'm finding it rather a nice utility when with void elds, not quite so worthless as i thought, was watching a guild void eldy using it to destealth shadowbaldes lurking around the keep doors in thidranki when we had it, then a hail of arrows flew from the walls each time , funny)

still, althogh mana doesnt have gtaoe (they can get it, but would have to be idiots to secondary spec void, you dont secondary spec a damage line because to get damage worth sh*t you need to primary spec it, and there is SOOOO much more in light if your thinking of a secondary spec, all you'd get from void would be a practically no damage gtaoe, light would get nearsight, insta dex/qui debuff adn aoe mezz, go figure.) it has pretty much everything else you would want to use in a fight like that.

that's just a mana eld alone, combine it with void elds for gtaoe ,and bolt damage once you've stunned/aoe mezzed those archers on the wall, or light elds for the DD, or mana mentalists to combine aoe dot with mana elds aoe disease as previously stated (considering the drain to healers, who aren't regenign mana also due to disease) is just insane, in a war of attrition, man elds are excellent, now all hib needs is for mana menta's to have a pbaoe dot on a damage scale similar to ranged aoe DD---------->pbaoe DD and all your whines are belong to hibernia


personally i think too many people in this game think of rvr as ONLY killing other realmers as fast as possible as often as possible for max rp's, ie emain, they'd care to remember however that there's the fun element to it as well, and personally i've allways loved huge long drawn out keep sieges, when i made my mana eld i didnt realise just how much they'd been designed for this, just thought they'd be pretty good at keeps because of pbaoe, but when you really look at them, you can't help but see that most of their spells, although are lacking on the open plains compared to the other lines (now that they seem to have fixed the "blocked by meelee" thing with bolts), with no highly damageing ranged option (snare DD's ace, and i wouldnt trade it for the world, but i'm talking about one almighty hit ability here) to use, but when it comes to keep fighting, you can't help but see that almost every single one of their spells seem designed to specifically make use of just that environment, every single one of them having great use in keep warfare. for someone who likes keep warfare i can't think of many other classes that come close in terms of actual enjoyment than a mana eld while your steadily seeing less and less enemies on the walls and stopping you from taking the gates because they aren't in any shape to do so , remember, just because a spell doesn't do "1337 damage", by no means makes it useless.

P.S. oh, pbaoe farming at the gates is, i'm sure, rather nice too

 

[Danya]

Couple of points:

- Disease doesn't stop mana regen only health.

- The kinetic dispersal line is not becoming a snare anytime soon if at all. I'm not sure where you got the info that it was from but http://www.camelotherald.com/spells/line.php?line=4250 clearly lists it as "Slow: Decreases the target's combat speed", the top spec being:
44 Kinetic Siphon Enemy 4.0 Rng: 1500 Area: 350 --18%/124 dmg 37 power
18% attack speed debuff is not to be sniffed at however, handy for slowing door bashers.

 

[Sharp Thing]

Charonel; for gods sake, stop making long posts cause you are really taking this too long

 

[Amadon]

i found that useful actually

i think i'll stick with mana now instead of respeccing to light

thanks char

 

[old.Charonel]

someone on my pet mage mentioned the aoe DD snare a while back, basically said it was changed and since people on the us servers would know better than me what's happening on the future patches (because they get them earlier) i took it as truth, they worded it as "we already have aoe DD snare", kinda seemed something you can't just mistake... now if they'd said "were getting it, maybe" then sure, but was said about actually having it already. granted since i havent played US i can't be certain , VN boards mentioned it a couple of times a bit ago too, but i take those with a pinch of salt

and since when did disease not stop mana regen? not saying your wrong but almost everything i've seen describing a disease spell includes stopping mana regen, ie the same as parth disease, and pretty much all the "disease" mobs hit you with. think i shall stop listening to lvl 50's when i ask about "what's that spell like in rvr"

P.S., it seems there's a lot of screwy info floating around about spell effects (floating around players i mean, ie i ask things about what damage such and such does at lvl 50, how it effects things, how it's best used, then find out from some mythic thingy that i've spent the last hour talking to someone who doesnt realise that con effects hit points ).

anyway, that aside, mind if you give a description of EXACTLY what disease does then? shift+i doesnt really help here.

what i've been told is the following:

stops mana regen
stops health regen
halves all heal spells on diseased target

and that's basically it. btw, didnt just ask the one person either, apart from seeing it in a tutorial when i first made my eldritch all those months ago, i've asked plenty of people, they all seemed to have roughly the same idea about it (could have read the same tutorial though come to think of it )

and sharp thing, you shoudlnt be telling me to stick to short text when you make my name almost twice as long , nice spelling

 

[Danya]

Hmm I was able to regen mana while suffering parth disease as I recall. I might try and test that at some point with my alt.
AFAIK disease does the following:

All hp regen is stopped.
Healing spells are debuffed by 50%.
Strength is debuffed by 15 points.
The target is snared by 15% (this is slightly bugged atm, fixed in 1.54).

The snare effect does not break on damage needless to say.

 

[old.Charonel]

i'm fairly sure parth disease stopped charonel's mana regen dead, which hibby char are you talking about danyan? your menta? because i dont see any reason why it'd stop MR from working, just "natural" mana regen, also if you were grouped with a bard with mana song you'd still regen. just the bog standard natural manaregen which should be stopped...

just that i'm almost certain that ever time char's been sat with a disease icon above his head i've had mana regen stopped dead, havent been diseased since getting serenity though so have no idea whether it effects that, shouldnt expect so though.

 

[Danya]

My eldritch actually, didn't do parths with my mentalist, trees / bantams were better. If you want to do some testing on regen with and without buffs (mana and hp) get a character to a suitable level and I'll bring danya along to buff you.

 

[Sharp Thing]

Originally posted by old.Charonel

and sharp thing, you shoudlnt be telling me to stick to short text when you make my name almost twice as long , nice spelling

thats only bc my eyes hurt from reading that much

 

[old.Charonel]

Originally posted by Sharp Thing


thats only bc my eyes hurt from reading that much

and danyan, good idea, arrowshot's still low enough to be diseased by parths and he has self buffs i can burn his power bar out on, will have to give this a shot tonight.

although considering he'sa ranger, dont think it'll take long to regen his power pool with MR 4 , with or without disease

 

[Danya]

could use portable if you prefer, you agg the parth and get diseased, I'll kill it.

 

[old.Charonel]

portable aggro's the parth, portable get's one hit killed , you /laugh spam me , i'm not using portable

 

[Danya]

Pff I one shot parths anyway.
For any interested results of the test are in - mana does regen while diseased, hp doesn't, and hot doesn't work while diseased.
Also you missed me staff killing the AP, Charonel.

 

[old.giriam]

Originally posted by Danyan
disease + dot on 20 people is going to be a right pain for healers. All heals are 50% unless you sure disease, everyone is taking damage unless you sure poison, the dot is potentially interrupting you, no one can regen hp unless you cure disease, if you stop to cure disease / poison half the mages might die, etc. etc.

come on, its not that hard.

- start to remove the diseases
- when the mages get low on life cast your group instant
- remove the rest of the diseases
- heal people, starting with the low con classes

healers that are so close to the keep that they get dot'ed should be shot on sight anyway

G

 

[old.giriam]

Originally posted by old.Charonel
AOE DD SNARE, (were close to getting it changed from aoe DD attckspeed debuff to aoe DD snare so i'm taking it as that)

as far as i can tell, every official and semi official source lists this as an attack speed debuff, and the eldritch TL has never said that it will be changed. so as far as im concerned its not a spell i will be casting, barring the most wierd situations ofcourse.

the "snare effect" from disease is just your strength getting reduced, a really minor reduction aswell that has very little effect on anything at level 50.

G

 

[Novamir]

ooo whoops i was confusing mana with suppression for runies because i've been looking at both closely for pvp