Major connectivity problems for all players

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censi

Guest
I dont give a flying fuck if its ISP related.
What I do give a feck about is GOA's complete lack of communcating that there is a major problem with the game.

They should be running around like lunatics and on the phone to their ISP or switching over to a backup ISP or whatever it takes to get the service back to its customer base. But instead you can gureentee their night shift guy is fast a sleep or wanking in the broom closet again.

The point is the game is fucked for over 10,000 players and there is nothing to keep us informed of the status of the problem.

I think they are all on some pretty hardcore drugs over there.

They must have known about the status of their ISP, we have had this problem for days now.

If I see anyone french tommorrow I am gonna twat them I swear.

Im absolutly shocked at their attitude to their customers. All I can say what a bunch of lazy fucking amateurs. I am so close to cancelling.. or going to a US server, I know they dont have to put up with this shit. (and wouldnt put up with it to)
 
C

cjkace

Guest
/waves

The faster whinging people like you leave the better off DaoC will be. Have you ever actually worked with computers/networking/backup etc. Probably not.

Wanadoo is a French ISP
GOA is owned by Wanadoo
Therefore GOA cannot really switch to another 'backup' ISP.

Every ISP has connectivity problems at some stage in 'their' life and the mark of a decent ISP is how fast it gets back to life. 2 hours is bloody decent as far as I can see, especially as I have no idea why it fell over. Router down? Server collapse? Power cut?

As for your 10,000 customers, what a about the couple of million customers of Wanadoo?

Maybe the reason GOA shut down there forums was because of crap like this. Who the bloody hell wants to go to work knowing whatever you do you'll get shit for?
 
A

Amanita

Guest
Its a shame, the thread had such a nice, sensible subject... like it was going to be news, then it goes into yet another totally uninteresting flame.

:rolleyes:
 
B

Bebopbo

Guest
Originally posted by cjkace
/waves

The faster whinging people like you leave the better off DaoC will be. Have you ever actually worked with computers/networking/backup etc. Probably not.

Wanadoo is a French ISP
GOA is owned by Wanadoo
Therefore GOA cannot really switch to another 'backup' ISP.

Every ISP has connectivity problems at some stage in 'their' life and the mark of a decent ISP is how fast it gets back to life. 2 hours is bloody decent as far as I can see, especially as I have no idea why it fell over. Router down? Server collapse? Power cut?

As for your 10,000 customers, what a about the couple of million customers of Wanadoo?

Maybe the reason GOA shut down there forums was because of crap like this. Who the bloody hell wants to go to work knowing whatever you do you'll get shit for?

the sooner we go the better! well, if that was the case there would be no DAoC so i guees in a way...u are right! ;)

yet again ive been discond from DAoC along wit all my grp i was hunting wit & yup we all died (adds yet another LD death to his bible)

not all of us get 2hrs..if i got 2rs id b more than happy..but i dont & im lucky to get 1hr w/out BAD lag or LD as for the wanadoo customers they have a choice of ISP to go wit... if we want to play DAoC we dont (unless we sign up wit US) which alot of peeps seem to b doing now thx for the reliable service of EU DAoC :)

as for working wit computers etc.. yup some of us do & i know it doesnt take 6 months to sort a problems to do wit Lag/LD server/ISP if it does then GoA should say fuck it & close the doors on DAoC instead of milkin ppl for there £
 
C

censi

Guest
cjkace,

1) do I work with computers?? Yes, I am in system implemenations and support. I work for a large global Financial Market Information provider (no names but Its a large company everyone knows) I know my way around most operating systems (UNIX, VMS, TANDEM, Windows etc etc) I program. And I know enough about networking to get by.

Im pretty confident I know a damn sight more them than you do, but thats not important...

2) Yes, the post is well over the top...

3) All the technicalities as to the relationship between GOA and wanado are irrelevent. You are missing the point. The point is that GOA's entire customer base are experiencing massive disruption to service. (not 2 hours, there been an intermittant problem for over a week now) The information coming from GOA about this disruption is minimal or non existant. The fact that the fault lies with Wanado is irrelvent. This is their problem not ours.

What I want to see from them is punctual information regarding the status of this fault. I dont care if this fault continues for the next year, but I want to see constant updates, that satisfies me that they are concerned and are doing their upmost to ensure this is resolved as soon as possible.

What we are getting is absolutly nothing... Further to that even polite "right now's" informing them that the everyplayer has just been booted , could they update me on whats going on, are just ignored with no reply....

If there is even the slightest glitch with any of our products at work, we have to get this information out to our clients as soon as possible (and I am talking within 1-2 minutes here)

I am just shocked that everyone playing the game has this major connectivity problem and they basically (for want of a better word) dont give a flying fuck.

And as for this "Who the bloody hell wants to go to work knowing whatever you do you'll get shit for?"... Thats just the dumbest crap I have ever heard..... You seriously think people will give GOA shit if they translated the patches faster?? You think people would give them shit if they ran a reliable service???

GOA get "shit" as you call it because they arnt prepared to front the costs of providing comprehesive customer support.... They just wanna host the servers and take a nice cut of the subscriptions... They are trying to maximise their profits at our expense.....

I dont expect the world, but the bare minimum would be nice....
(and everyone I speak to in game seems to share this opinion)
 
S

Shaki/Aeis

Guest
I've said it before. I will always remember GOA.....
 
C

cjkace

Guest
Ok I was a little tired when I posted that reply BUT some of my points are still very valid.

Whenever there are problems its always GOA that gets the blame which is pretty unfair. Between myself and the DaoC server there are between 9 and 13 nodes deprnding which my ISP decides to route the information. Therefore there are 13 potential problems every time I connect. Couple this with different levels of usage ingame and for the internet at large, and you are beginning to see a nasty scenario.

Also quite a lot of UK ISPs are using bandwidth strangling tactics for their so-called 'heavy' users, where people playing online games, using file-sharing programs etc have their available bandwidth throttled because it costs money that ISPs aren't prepared to pay, when the money they make is negligable.

So how many customer support people should GOA have? 10? 20? 30? What would you say is a reasonable amount of staff for customer support for a approx. 20,000 people?

Remember that every single member of staff costs money and that money has to come from somewhere and 20,000 customers paying £6 a month is only £1,440,000 per year.

Last year Wanadoo (owned by France Telecom) lost 102 MILLION EUROS so where do you suggest GOA get the money for extra support staff, translators etc etc.

All right I know what you are going to say now. That's not our problem and in effect you are correct. Why should we care if GOA make a profit or loss?

Because without making money there is no DaoC, whoever runs the game. It would be interesting to find out exactly how much of the £6 we all pay GOA is for

a: Licensing the game from Mythic
b: staff wages
c: ISP and bandwidth charges
d: hardware and software costs

I'd be very shocked if they are making that much profit and wouldn't be at all surprised if they are actually running at a loss, and the more people whinge, moan, leave for US the less money is made, the less can be put into the game etc.

The solution?

Put subscription up by 50% - use that extra cash for faster translation and more support staff.

What don't want to pay?

Then shut up.
 
J

Jace

Guest
I'd happily pay twice what I pay now, hell I pay for a US sub as well, but is anyone niave enough to think it would address the issues that exist, namely :-

* EU lagging far behind on patches

* Poor connections (regular LDs and spike for me for as long as I can remember)

* No 3rd English speaking server

* VERY poor customer support

It's frustrating as we're stuck between a rock and a hard place . . . playing the US version addresses all of the above issues however the time difference can be damn annoying and the population is a little thin at the moment :/
 
J

Jimli

Guest
Originally posted by censi
cjkace,

If there is even the slightest glitch with any of our products at work, we have to get this information out to our clients as soon as possible (and I am talking within 1-2 minutes here)

I am just shocked that everyone playing the game has this major connectivity problem and they basically (for want of a better word) dont give a flying fuck.

Are these customers of yours paying 10 bucks a month for that kind of service?

Don't think so, and if they are I bet there are more then 20.000

And indeed I dont give a flying fuck.

1. There's more to life then DaoC
2. For 10 bucks a month they got a very reasonable uptime. Ive seen much worse in my work for 10.000 bucks a month


Btw anybody checked the (rl)news lately? KPNQwest major routing point got the plug pulled out. Take some times before all capacity is taken over.



But i do agree that they could inform us way better, what does it cost to put a message on the website? 5 minutes time serving 20.000 peeps, pretty cost effective seems to me. Then again, they'll get flamed for not solving the problem.
 
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cjkace

Guest
Agree 100% mate.

For £6.00 if you play 10 hours a day then you have a possible 310 hours of play. How much does Dungeon Siege et al cost? Approximately £30 for around 80-90 hours of play.

So there are minor niggles. Big deal.

I have around 5 LDs a day, sometimes more sometimes less, and I consider myself damn lucky if I get a full 4 hour session without one. Is this GOA's fault? Nope its actually down to my ISP (or rather Affinity Internet who maintain it) as I've seen it happen while browsing the web. I click a link and nothing happens for 30-40 seconds then it decides to connect.

Should I complain to GOA?

Why the hell should GOA's support people have to sit and sort through loads of complaints and connection troubles when probly less than 10% are actually down to them?

As for this latest glitch, it is looking likely that excessive traffic was routed through the Wanadoo server causing a general slowdown.
 
S

Spudgie

Guest
Read this topic first, before flaming here, Kemor + GOA are working on the prob. But firstly they need to identify where exactly the problem lies.
 
C

censi

Guest
your all still missing the point of the post....

Basically it costs nothing to keep us informed...

This is something they need to work on...
 
S

Spudgie

Guest
If you bothered to read it and look at the post date and time. Kemor posted that before you even started this thread.

A full 7hrs before you posted.

From experience of other MMORPG's support Kemor is keeping us v.much in the picture. He put quite abit of info in that post and I see you posted halfway down shouting about not being kept up to date, well bugger me rigid with a sharp stick.

I bet your one of those people that bring drinks back to the bar because theres one piece of ice in too many, or you don't like the shape of the glass.
 
C

censi

Guest
You have very low standards... I cant be bothered to argue with you.....

Do think people dislike GOA just for the sake of disliking them???
 
J

Jimli

Guest
Originally posted by censi
your all still missing the point of the post....

Basically it costs nothing to keep us informed...

This is something they need to work on...

And you think such a flame will make GOA feel the need to inform people?
 
C

censi

Guest
its like banging your head against a brick wall....

you just dont get it.....

there is always some dumbass counter comment being tagged on the end...


REALITY MODEL
poor service and customer support = unhappy customers = less customers = less money for GOA = less customer support and poorer service ------> goto step 2 and so on and on untill the game falls apart (a bit like whats happening to UO)

GOA's REALITY MODEL
Reduce all costs where-ever posible = Massive savings = Fuck the paying customer = MD can afford a new ferrari


I honestly believe that there is no dedicated support personel for this game. I think GOA have some support helpdesk that covers all their diferent systems. I think they probably have some post graduate person on a low wage doing the translation on a 9-5 basis..... I bet we would all be shocked if we actually saw the amount of work they put into this game on a daily basis.... They must be raking it in from this one.... I would estimate they have about 50,000 subscribers generating massive revenue.... I would estimate that their costs are almost negligable...

And the funny thing is they get away with it, because you let them get away with it.....

I feel I do my bit to keep them on their toes with the Emails I send and the posts created here... Thing is its a drop of piss in the ocean, unless you all jump on the band wagon and start complaining too. If enough of us piss in the ocean they might even notice....
 
C

cjkace

Guest
LMFAO

We don't get it?

Seems like you don't.

Internet = massive cash leech = keep costs low.

Financial sector = rip off your customers in every way possible = give good customer service so it seems like you are actually giving value for money.

In the hey day of the internet EVERYTHING was free and only now are people realising that nothing is ever free. Bandwidth costs money, hardware costs money, hardware support costs money, software costs money, pimply faced l33t hackers cost money, idiots not using anti-virus software costs money.

When it comes to customer support etc would u agree that 1 CS per 100 subscribers is fair? If so that would equal 200 customer support people. Maybe 1 per 200? Either way you are talking about a vast amount of the available funds.

1 CS @ 10,000 per annum per 100 subscribers (approx 20,000 subs) = £2,000,000

£6 per sub x 20,000 subs = £1,440,000

OOOOO look losing money already.

As for the comments about GOA, how the bloody hell would you know? Your comments are inflammatory and childish. If you don't like the situation LEAVE it's as simple as that.
 
C

censi

Guest
oks,

8 servers running with about 2000 players online.....
making 16,000 players online.. (approx)

Make the assumption that 20% of its subscribing customers are online....

so total customer base is 80,000 subscriptions. (very approximate I know, but perhaps it could be higher)

Now,assume all pay £6 pounds a month...

(we wont worry about the cut GOA took on the initial Game purchase, but it would easily cover the setup costs of the servers (assuming they are using proliants or some other multi processor machine)

80,000 X£6= £480,000 per month revenue.

Now, let just say I have majorly overcalculated this. Ok lets say they only make 300K a month (revenue).....

Do you want me to go and dig out some costings on a 1 gig gateway we have to one of our ISP's at work. I doubt they have that big a gateway too. Either way we are talking thousands just to give you a ball park figure. (but not even close to 10k a month)

If you think that they are scraping by and barly breaking even from this you are a fool.....

The revenue being generated from online gaming has caught the attention of the some of the big name software companies (microsoft to name but one) Bandwidth costs nothing compared to revenue generated from subscriptions. GOA jumped at the chance to host this game.... They wouldnt have done it if there wasnt big profit margins...

Its funny the way you defend them... They would not hesitate to close this setup down the moment it didnt become profitable.

You really dont have a clue..... Its all about money...

All I ask for is a little bit more back from them..

I dont mind them making a healthy profit, I just wanna see some TLC to the people that are paying their wages....

Chjace, just take a look at that post about the how long its taken to get the patches out (the patition one).... Its a strong indicator about how people feel... read peoples comments in there.....
Its the biggest post ever and its full of angry people....
I see other posts of people leaving to play the same game on the US servers FFS. People are quite prepared to start again from lvl 1 just so they dont have to put up with it. (wish I had this sort of will power)

I struggle to understand why you cant see this...
 
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cantho

Guest
Bandwidth

Lol,

guys, please don't try to bring in bandwidth costs ...
Goa is wanadoo, and wanadoo is one of the biggest ISPs around in europe meaning bandwidth is free. They didn't buy additional bandwidth, they just use the existing, those 8 Daoc servers won't make a big difference on their network.
For those who're gonna flame me ... go ahead, i've spent 5years working at ISPs like C&W,KPN and worldcom .... so i know what i am talking about.

D
 
F

Flimgoblin

Guest
I'm sure wanadoo give GOA free bandwidth, after all there's no such thing as competition laws.
cf. BT and btopenwound

at one point one part of BT was being charged more than it's competitor by another part of BT. (may still be the case)

This might not happen in france (no idea) but I don't see Wanadoo making much profit by giving free bandwidth :)

someone has to pay for it ...

another 1mil pa might not be much compared to 100mil (or whatever) but it's still 1mil
 
C

cjkace

Guest
Also strange how the three companies you mention have been losing money hand over fist for the last couple of years.

NOTHING IS EVER FREE
 
C

cantho

Guest
GOA IS WANADOO :) No giving or selling bandwidth... the own it :)
 
C

cjkace

Guest
Right here goes.

One last time :(

France Telecom owns a large share of Wanadoo (which is trading on the stock market ) and in turn Wanadoo owns Goa.

The above is a little simplified but there you go.

Each company ( or subsidiary ) operates independantly to a certain degree.

Wanadoo uses France Telecom for its connectivity etc and PAYS for that. GOA uses Wanadoo for its connectivity and PAYS for that. To do otherwise is against European Competition Laws. There is more than one online gaming company than GOA, and if GOA was found to be able to undercut and subsequently put out of business other online gaming companies, due to it's relationship to GOA, then both companies would be liable for prosecution.

This is the same in the UK as the relationship between BT and BTopenworld. BTopenworld must still buy from BT otherwise it gives it a wholly unfair advantage over other ISPs.

All of this is by the by tho.

a: There have been a few problems lately with connections which no one has pinned on GOA

b: patching is slow due to translations etc .

c: People grumble about customer support or lack of.

I don't think any of the statements above mean that GOA deserve to be flamed as much as they have, by it has to be said a minority of people.

I personally don't think the company have performed that badly ( I can name worse companies, most of them Banks, Telecoms or Insurance), we all knew that they were going to patch in all three languages ( I too have signed the petition ), and customer support people cost money and in the main are probably trying to fix problems with poeple's ISPs, Windows, Video cards etc etc rather than genuine problems with DaoC.

Yes I think they should keep people better informed but how? Not every user comes to these forums, when there are major problems with the servers it also takes out the website I've noticed and not everyone uses the same instant messenger service so thats out too.

All in all I'm glad I'm not one of those unfortunate people at GOA who have become the target for a few neurotic loudmouths who have an overblown sense of their own worth and a burning need to shoot their mouth's off :) :) :)
 
J

Jiggs

Guest
French you say???
we'll leave it at that shall we.
 
A

Alrindel

Guest
Re: Bandwidth

guys, please don't try to bring in bandwidth costs ...
Goa is wanadoo, and wanadoo is one of the biggest ISPs around in europe meaning bandwidth is free. They didn't buy additional bandwidth, they just use the existing, those 8 Daoc servers won't make a big difference on their network.
For those who're gonna flame me ... go ahead, i've spent 5years working at ISPs like C&W,KPN and worldcom .... so i know what i am talking about.
No you don't.

The telecom markets were only privatized in France a few years ago. New phone companies were created, but France Telecom still owns and operates the national infrastructure. Since this means that companies competing with FT must purchase their backbone from FT, the ART (Autorite de Regulation des Telecommunications) must approve everything that FT does to make sure they are not impeding competition.

This applies to ISPs as well. Wanadoo is wholly controlled by France Telecom (only about 10% was floated on the stock market IIRC) but there are many other ISPs out there, who must buy their voice and data backbone from France Telecom, and Wanadoo is no exception. Here's the weird part: any big ISP like Club Internet, Noos or AOL France buys a lot of connectivity, so they can negotiate bulk discounts. But with the ART looking over their shoulder, FT makes Wanadoo - their own company - pay full price for everything so it doesn't look like they are playing favourites to squish the competition. So Wanadoo pays MORE for its bandwidth than its competitors do. And FT has been pretty scrupulous about this. Some say because they want to keep a nice clean record in the ISP business because in the meantime they are being investigated (like almost every telecom in Europe) for price gouging in the cellphone business. But that's something else entirely. :rolleyes:
 
C

censi

Guest
Chjakce, Some say the glass is half emtpy some say its half full.

I think we will never see this in the same light....

Believe it or not I do have better things to do than flame GOA all day.

The reason I do, is because a gr8 game is being compramised by the low quality hosting.

Perhaps you are just a generally more optimistic person than me.

My final comment on this is as follows:

If you put a poll, asking each and every player on the game if they are happy with GOA's service. I would predict about 80%+ would say no. (almost certainly higher)

Dispite all your valid comment, This figure speaks for itself.
 
C

Cro Bar

Guest
Censi Has got a point here.....

Very simple GOA are not providing a very good service.

I want to be able to say -- GOA yes top Hosting people

They need to KEEP THIER PAYING CLIENTS INFORMED AND RESOLVE TECH ISSUES ASAP ......( i dont think they are earwigging so I'll stop shouting)

The Lag and LD problems still exist a week later.... The wannadoo section of my link to DAoC is at or near capacity....

1. What is being done about this. - From GOA -- not a peep...

2. When will it be resolved. - From GOA -- Not a peep...

Im not about to pay for this level of service, not out of principal but because I now find the game unplayable.

I want to play, lot of nice people here, hey has anyone talked to Mythic about the poor state of affairs overhere in the EU ?...
 
J

Jiggs

Guest
Is there a 'acceptable' level of connectivity in the contract you sign up to?? What I want to know is if it does not improve can I claim back my sub??
This is terrible for GOA's PR

in america they are already testing 1.52!!!!
in europe we get a LD ridden 1.48!!!!
 
C

censi

Guest
I think passing some of these posts onto Mystic might be a good idea.
 

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