M3? :o

[Gray]

About 5 months ago i run a search on a Subaru Impreza as i wanted to have a shop around for a new car. Anyway, i certainly went off the idea when i found the cheapest insurance i could get would have been around £4000.

Anyway, the main cars i was interested in myself was either the Subaru, or a BMW class car. Ive always liked them for some reason - Anyhoo i noticed an M3 Evo for just under £5000 to buy - and the insurance was only £1,500 so i am pretty chuffed.

Next week is going to be my fifth year of driving, no points or accidents etc, but ive always been on my dads insurance. So if my own insurance looks to be £1.5k, im wondering what it would be on my dads.

Alas, anyone like the M3s? The one i noticed was a spinky light blue colour, veryy nice.

 

[GDW]

Im guessing at that price it is pretty old and has probably been thrashed to within an inch of its life.

Therefore you need to be aware that servicing and replacement parts for these cars, particularly in relation to the engine, the EMS, the gearbox and the running gear WILL cost you an arm an leg. So if you do decide to buy make sure you have a couple of thousand at hand.

 

[Trem]

Quite hard to thrash a 3.2 litre car imo, especially in this country.

I have had an Impreza, well 2 to be exact and I love them. I sold my last one with the intention of getting an M3, I looked at loads and drove a few, and to be quite honest I wasn't impressed. Having said that I had just come from a lighter car with similar power but with better handling, the M3's are heavy.

They also rust around the arches quite badly and the evo's have a thing(can't remember what its called) that goes wrong on them and it costs a couple of grand to put right. I was told to get a normal M3 as they don't have this problem and they are a more balanced car. Also beware how much petrol they use.

In my personal opinion I would get an Impreza, a UK one, and forget about the extra insurance, you will soon get your moneys worth from the petrol saved and the fun you will have.

I did look at about 20 M3's btw, I do have experience of them, I saw about 2 good ones and even they weren't exactly great.

 

[DaGaffer]

Quite hard to thrash a 3.2 litre car imo, especially in this country.

I have had an Impreza, well 2 to be exact and I love them. I sold my last one with the intention of getting an M3, I looked at loads and drove a few, and to be quite honest I wasn't impressed. Having said that I had just come from a lighter car with similar power but with better handling, the M3's are heavy.

They also rust around the arches quite badly and the evo's have a thing(can't remember what its called) that goes wrong on them and it costs a couple of grand to put right. I was told to get a normal M3 as they don't have this problem and they are a more balanced car. Also beware how much petrol they use.

In my personal opinion I would get an Impreza, a UK one, and forget about the extra insurance, you will soon get your moneys worth from the petrol saved and the fun you will have.

I did look at about 20 M3's btw, I do have experience of them, I saw about 2 good ones and even they weren't exactly great.

The Evo thing that is expensive to fix is the Double Vanos heads - very expensive if they go wrong. I assume this is the E36 model? You need to get a full AA check; they do get thrashed, and there are a lot of Max Power-wannabe bodged examples out there.

 

[Bodhi]

Mate I'm not sure what condition that M3 is going to be in, I was looking at some Evos on Auto Trader today and the cheapest one I would touch was about £9k, i'm guessing for 5k it's either going to be an non-evo E36 (which didn't get a good write up at the time at all - the Evo was a much better car) or a tired origianal Left Hand Drive M3, the E30, which is an swesome car if you get a good one, not how sure good they'll be for 5k tho. I'd avoid the Scooby completely if I were you, 4k is far too much to insure anything, you'll end up paying about 9k in your first year, and you can get a mint M3 Evo for that. What I'd look at if I were you is the E36 (M til R-S plate for reference) BMW 328Ci, you should be able to find a very nice one for 5k. It'll be even cheaper to insure than the M3, is almost as quick and if you get one with the right M-Sport bodykit, looks pretty similar too. OK those bodykits looks silly on a 318, but on a 328 they don't seem quite so out of place. They're fast as well, 0-60 in the low 6's and I've been in one that easily kept up with a well-driven Scooby, albeit in the dry, and sound absolutely glorious. If I can't afford an M3 Evo next time I change, it's what I'm having.

 

[Gray]

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/WWW/cars_search.asp?modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&make=BMW&model=M3&min_pr=75&max_pr=6000&mileage=&agerange=&postcode=wa8+7du&miles=40&max_records=50&source=0&photo=1&sort=3&ukcarsearch_full=SEARCH

Hmm. Long URL, anyway, it at this time is the 3rd one down, light blue colour. Basic information is:

1996 BMW M3 M3 Evolution 4dr Saloon,
106,800 miles, ESTORIL BLUE,106,800miles, SERVICE HISTORY,NAPPA LEATHER,AIR CON,E/W,P/S,PARKING SENSORS FRONT&REAR 6 SPEED GEAR BOX,USUAL M3 EVO SPEC 5 DOOR h.p.i clear 11 MTHS M.O.T 321BHP PX MOTORCYCLE £5295 O.N.O CAN ARANGE FINANCE. £5,295

 

[tris-]

Tream, which type of impreza would you recommend?

 

[Tom]

Bargepole Gray. Bargepole.

Cheap to buy = expensive to service is never truer when discussing fast cars.

 

[Trem]

Trem, which type of impreza would you recommend?

I had a Jap STi and also a UK one, actually my mate is selling the STi if you want it

I didn't think the UK car was that much slower than the Jap one, the Jap one was more aggressive though, more of a kick when you booted it. But for ease of servicing and parts I would go for a UK Impreza Turbo they are cheaper to insure and buy as well.

 

[Bodhi]

http://atsearch.autotrader.co.uk/WWW/cars_search.asp?modelexact=1&lid=search_used_cars_full&make=BMW&model=M3&min_pr=75&max_pr=6000&mileage=&agerange=&postcode=wa8+7du&miles=40&max_records=50&source=0&photo=1&sort=3&ukcarsearch_full=SEARCH

Hmm. Long URL, anyway, it at this time is the 3rd one down, light blue colour. Basic information is:

I'd walk away and have a good condition 328i if I were you, if it's that cheap chances are the VANOS is about to need done.

 

[Trem]

I'd walk away and have a good condition 328i if I were you, if it's that cheap chances are the VANOS is about to need done.

The 328i's are very gutless though, very underpowered.

 

[old.user4556]

The Evo thing that is expensive to fix is the Double Vanos heads - very expensive if they go wrong. I assume this is the E36 model? You need to get a full AA check; they do get thrashed, and there are a lot of Max Power-wannabe bodged examples out there.

Exactly what Gaff says.

You can get M3 Evo's for £5k and an M3 Evo for £12k, but I can say almost certainly it's not a car you want to skimp on as they can be absolute money pits (like any M powered car). The cheap one will be a dog and not looked after, or it's someone that knows it's going to die soon so is trying to off load it cheap.

Ideally for a car this age and performance, you'd want:

- full BMW history (or at the VERY least a full reputable beemer specialist - M cars need special treatment)
- full years MOT
- receipts for all repair/services, it'll give you an idea what's gone wrong and what's been replaced (and potentially any big bills around the corner)
- specific details about VANOS history
- specific details about rear shock mounts (prone to going)

Additionally, an HPI and a full AA check would be smashing.

Again to echo Gaff, the 3.2 "Evo" engine is bomb proof but the double VANOS is notoriously frail and prone to failure without warning - some cars to 10k miles and it fails, some go for 100k miles and they fail. My old M Roadster had the Evo engine, and it was an absolute peach. However, it had covered 80k miles and the VANOS was getting a bit noisy now and again. Expect to pay £1200 all in at an independent to have the VANOS replaced and fitted.

You would be better going for the non-Evo variant of the E36 M3, this isn't prone to the same VANOS issue and is still good for 286 bhp. Some say that it's just as good to drive, and not really noticeable on our roads that it's down on power.

A couple of good examples that certainly would be worth a look:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/73825.htm

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/79264.htm

Both are not cheap, but the second one there states full BMW service history, VANOS replaced recently and just had an inspection 2 (the biggy!!) done - so you know someone has paid top dollar and looked after it, but that doesn't mean the gearbox won't die in 2k miles time.

That leads me onto something else, M power servicing

Be prepared to be shagged with your pants on, M servicing (i know this personally) is not cheap. Typically, there are three main stages to servicing:

- oil service
- inspection 1
- oil service
- inspection 2
- oil service
- inspection 1
- etc, etc

An oil service on an M car by a BMW dealer will cost £150 (independent won't be much cheaper, perhaps £100). Not too sure about the inspection 1, but an inspection 2 will cost in the region of £700 before they've even done anything over and above the service. About £400 of that is labour. A reputable independent will charge about £350/£400 for an inspection 2 (again, before anything needs done over and above). An independent quoted me £260 for an inspection 1, so lets say you had an inspection 1 done and needing discs and pads at the front and maybe roll bar bushes - you'd be looking at a bill ~£500.

In short, if you have to buy an old, shit, cheap one and not service it properly - you can't afford an M car. Oh, and the fuel consumption - my god it's shocking on fuel.

I'm not trying to put you off, but you have to know what you're getting into - if you have a lot of cash to burn, I can't recommend an M car strongly enough - i fucking loved mine, and if my job hadn't moved back into Edinburgh i'd have kept it.

 

[Tom]

My old Chimaera is up for sale for £7500, and its not too far away from you Gray

Group 20 insurance though!

 

[Bodhi]

The 328i's are very gutless though, very underpowered.

Nah mate they're proper rapid. Me mum had one for 6 years, was incredible just how closely matched to the M3 Evo we borrowed - the M3 didn't show its extra guts til you had 6000rpm on the clock and you were thrashing th nuts off it.

 

[Trem]

I've drove one and also my mate had one, they were shit mate, honestly they were slower than a Corolla well, maybe not that slow but they aren't much to get excited about.

What BHP do they have about 200? Far too little to be classed a rapid car.

I suppose it all depends on what you are used to.

 

[old.user4556]

the M3 didn't show its extra guts til you had 6000rpm on the clock and you were thrashing th nuts off it.

Now that i disagree with, the 3.2, 321 bhp unit has immense power and a very flexible power band - it shoved like a torquey diesel low down, pushed like a blown petrol engine in the mid range and rasped like a VTEC in the upper range (thanks to the flakey double VANOS).

That said, the 328i is a decent car with a decent engine (0-60 in 7.1 secs is the official figure), but it ain't no M3 - you're comparing chalk and cheese; the 328i is 193 bhp and the M3 Evo is 321 bhp. That's a mahoosive difference.

 

[Gray]

My car is just about to die. I dont know how many times you can bring a car back from deaths door before it finally gives up the ghost, this has as many lives as a fucking cat.

Something maybe getting done mind, parents want me to get a new car anyway now, so i maybe on the market for something... I just dont know what yet. I have an Audi '80 Sport, had it for near 2 and half years and its just been superb [When it works] but its a nightmare when it doesnt.

I would have liked to have sticked with Audi, and you never know, i might, as there has been a few companies i would have looked into, like Audi, BMW, Subs etc - But its just finding the car i *think* i would like. No doubt there is plenty out there which i just have to discover.

Insurance is the daunting one though, since im on my dads insurance i dont have too much of a problem, but the quotes ive got for the Audi A4's/BMW's etc were quotes that i filled out via confused.com which gave me generally quotes between £1,000-£2,000 so i have to think if i wanna be on my dads insurance any longer.

Bloody hate cars, all i do is drive the damn things -.-

 

[DaGaffer]

Gray, one word of advice, never, ever, use price comparison sites for buying insurance. They're fucking rubbish. It'll take longer, but I guarantee you'll get a better deal if you pick up the phone. When I bought my 350Z I was being quoted over 2K from confused.com and moneysupermarket (I have a speeding ban). Picked up the phone and got it down to £700-ish, with one of the same companies (Priviledge) who'd quoted something ridiculous online.

 

[Bodhi]

New idea! How about a Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo? Far more reliable than you'd think, has 220bhp, a 6 speed box, more torque than a Porsche Boxster. For 5k you should be able to find a very good condition late example, and a lot of these cars have been well cared for. There is a nasty 60k/5 years service which will set you back about 600 quid at an independent (don't bother with Fiat servicing - it's fairly rubbish), but with your sorta budget it shouldnt be too hard to find one that's had it done. Insurance group 19 as well, which is better than an M3 or Impreza, and the interior is lush with the body coloured metal panel swooping across the dash. An Alfa GTV6 is an idea as wel, but these won't be anywhere near as reliable. If you find a good Fiat Coupé, you're getting a lot of speed and a lot of style for not a lot of cash.

 

[TdC]

I second that. the Fiat Coupe is a fun little runner, and I love it to bits. I'd get one myself, though stodgy me will prolly end up driving some diesel

 

[old.user4556]

Mmm, I third that - get a lot of good press these cars. Cheap and fast, but again would be hard to find one that wasn't abused.

 

[Tom]

If you're spending money on a fast car, I very much recommend you also spend a relatively small sum on extra driver training.

It'll make you safer, and also a faster driver.

www.ridedrive.co.uk

 

[Gumbo]

If you're spending money on a fast car, I very much recommend you also spend a relatively small sum on extra driver training.

It'll make you safer, and also a faster driver.

www.ridedrive.co.uk

That's not a bad idea, I'd also reccommend www.carlimits.com. Not so much roadcraft as ridedrive, but all about what your car does on the limit and having an outrageous amount of fun.

Lots of guys from my lotus club have fiat coupe turbo experience and seemed to like them. Certainly worth a look.

 

[Trem]

New idea! How about a Fiat Coupe 20v Turbo? Far more reliable than you'd think, has 220bhp, a 6 speed box, more torque than a Porsche Boxster. For 5k you should be able to find a very good condition late example, and a lot of these cars have been well cared for. There is a nasty 60k/5 years service which will set you back about 600 quid at an independent (don't bother with Fiat servicing - it's fairly rubbish), but with your sorta budget it shouldnt be too hard to find one that's had it done. Insurance group 19 as well, which is better than an M3 or Impreza, and the interior is lush with the body coloured metal panel swooping across the dash. An Alfa GTV6 is an idea as wel, but these won't be anywhere near as reliable. If you find a good Fiat Coupé, you're getting a lot of speed and a lot of style for not a lot of cash.

Agreed.

 

[Gray]

Well, got my new car today. BMW 316i SE its a rather small engined car but ive not been able to take it for a huge run out today [Was still getting used to it].

Tomrrow shall be whipping around work, so i wil get to have a feel for it then. Its a nice car mind but its only a 1600. P reg and got it for £2000.

See how it goes i guess!

 

[GDW]

I think it has an 1800cc engine. Enjoy.

 

[old.user4556]

No, the E36 316i SE was a 1600 (or 1596).

Won't be a fast car... at all. But if it's been serviced properly it'll be a great runner. Cost about £18k brand new .

 

[Gray]

True, its not a fast car in effect, but for some reason it feels like a more enjoyable ride. Instead of speeding around, im taking a more chilled out approach to it all, and jus enjoying it.

But yeah its 1596, its hard reversing BMW's though i dont know where the arse-end is yet -.-