LW debuff and magic resists

[censi]

I got this newb friend friend right, that was asking me about resist buffs and how it effects LW debuff and stuff like that. and how AOM factors into it.

I explained it all to him but he just didnt get it.

:touch:

anyway. like I was saying to him. If say you buff up resists and you got 51% heat resist. Someone procs LW heat debuff on you. you have like 51-35%= 16% heat resist. Which kind of makes sense.

But then I had to explain this wierd things to him that like if you have 26% and someone LW debuffs you u dont get like 26%-35% = -9% or 0% if thats the limit.

you get like -35%/2 like -17% which means u at like +9% after debuff.

Anyway i kept telling him to go test all this shit on his BB but he is a lazy git (thats SB's for ya!)

Then we started about talking about AOM and I tried to explain to him how it was pretty useless and all that...

To cut a long storey short can anyone explain all this for him as he is a bit thick!!

"......................."

 

[Neffneff]

tbh, i dont know how AoM factors in exactly, i know its a second tier resist..so without debuffs, say you have 50% sist first tier (26% SC+24% buff) and 10% sist second tier (AoM3)

now..you get hit for 100dmg..first tier happens - 100*0.5 = 50 dmg left..
then second tier...50 dmg left so 50*0.9 = 45 dmg left.

so 50% sc/buffs reduced the dmg by 50% leaving 50
10% AoM reduced the dmg by 5% leaving 45..AoM3 in this circumstance reduced the dmg by 5 out of every 100. if the first sist passed was only 25%..then AoM3 would reduce it by 7.5 out of every 100...first pass 0%..AoM would work at full 10%




now..as far as debuffs are concerned..without second pass stuff (as i dont know if these count as SCed or buffed)

lets say in first example you we're a shade with 26% heat sist SCed and no heat buff up.

shade's r 15% weak to heat so that's 26-15 = 11% actual heat sist.
a heater procs on you..that's a -35% debuff. BUT debuffs only work half effect on natural/SCed sists..so that's actually -17.5%

11%-17.5% = -6.5% sists to the heater now = OW!! mofo F off n die alrdy!!


now..same shade with +24% druid heat buff.
50% heat sist - 15% armour weakness = 35% actual heat sist. (this is much better than above yes? ^^
a heater procs on you..that's -35% debuff. debuffs work full effect on buffed sists, so! 24% heat buff is stripped straight off.
35% debuff - 24% used = 11% debuff left to go.
now, SCed sists, so half effect..11% debuff left /2 = 5.5%.

11% (SCed sists left)-5.5%(debuff left) = 5.5% sists to heater now = better than above, but once heater procs it still hurts like a bitch.


like i said above, as i dont actually know how AoM comes in as far as if it counts as buffed sist (debuffs work full effect) or SCed sists (debuffs only work half) so i cant say how it will work with debuffs. also the slim chance that debuffs only effect first line sists, and as such AoM may not be touched by debuffs *shrugs*


EDIT: hope that wasnt too confusing, stuff hurts my head too ^^

 

[censi]

u cant go lower than 0% though now right?

so like say i got 0 % energy.

and RF is like 10% weak to energy. does that mean im like -10%

or just 0% because I cant go lower?

so basically its not worth putting any energy in my template unless I get more than 10%

say 11%-10% = 1% resist! (ftw)....

I think it does matter because the armour calculation is done after or summin right.

god my meights such a newb!

 

[Neffneff]

well, if you ask me, you CAN go below 0% now (im always hitting for +dmg after debuffs proc) even when i use pierce on some n00b scouts i have sometimes hit for +dmg cos they're 10% weak and have fook all sists.

i think what they did was make it so debuffs only work half effect on SC/natural sists so it was very unlikely to go below 0%..especially in fg RvR with sist buffs up.

ill go batter my BB up a bit later to make sure im right, but i see +dmg alot (though ofc this could be due to armour weaknesses alone, though now i think of it, think i have hit a scout with aheater before for plus dmg after a proc.)

 

[Neffneff]

all this half effect on SC bs is why i hate GS..wonderfull proc that barely EVER goes off, and when it does...*drum roll* it strips a massive 7.5% thrust sist off...SCAREY!! honest.

 

[Meradesh]

u cant go lower than 0% though now right?

Your listed resistance can go lower than 0%, don't know if game just shows negative % or if calculates it like 0%
Tested it some time ago, 50% chanter debuff lows around 35% real resists, 35% LW debuff lower around 17% real resists.
So if a sword of sun procs on you censi, you'll get like -17% energy.

 

[GrIrcSpammer]

Hahahahahahhahahaa

 

[Ging]

Your listed resistance can go lower than 0%, don't know if game just shows negative % or if calculates it like 0%
Tested it some time ago, 50% chanter debuff lows around 35% real resists, 35% LW debuff lower around 17% real resists.
So if a sword of sun procs on you censi, you'll get like -17% energy.

yes if you get debuffed beyond 0 it shows up as -%


Not actually sure how it will affect the dmg done as you should be hitting cap if target has 0% resist?

 

[Neffneff]

still got AF etc to deal with for meleers.

 

[Neffneff]

So if a sword of sun procs on you censi, you'll get like -17% energy.

-27% 10% weak to it remember ;P

 

[Puppet]

Then we started about talking about AOM and I tried to explain to him how it was pretty useless and all that...

AoM pwns actually, especially (mostly) for a RR5+ Nightshade in stealther-fights. Because it is, besides resist-buffs, the only way to reduce your damage-taken effectively.

Due to the way Remedy works against legendaries, you cannot be resist-debuffed.

26+AoM3 = approx 34% heat-resists minus 15% = 19% effective resists instead of 11% = good investment.

 

[Chimaira]

Hahahahahahhahahaa

Hard to guess what SB we where talking about here xD

 

[Khartoum]

@ Censi

Forgot the exact details you asked about between the seconds of finishing reading your post and clicking the Reply button (I'm so dodgy), but here is some clarification that comes from me actually testing these things out rather than guessing like I see some people are doing. I hope it helps your mate *cough*

First off, there is a difference between 35 percentage, and 35 percentage UNITS This is basic maths...
A spell debuff, ie. Cabalists body debuff, removes xx percentage UNITS, and not just a percentage. Example: Radarumos has 25% body resist and 25% spirit resist. My -30 percentage units body debuff of spirit dmg, since I have MoF3 (+17 levels, turning the spell to lvl 50), removes 22.5 units of his resistances (25 - (30-25% spirit) = 22.5), and I thus nuke him against 7.5% resistance assuming that I have 0% pierce. And, yeah, the body debuff Cabalists have is actually lowered in effect because of it not being lvl 50 (several other spells suffer from this btw.) - try getting MoF and you will see the effect of it growing stronger. I tested this.
LW debuffs don't remove precentage units, they remove a pure percentage (35%) of the targets actual resists. This is why the delve says 35%, and not, say, 30, like the Cabalists body debuff. 51% - 35% is not 16%, it's 33.15%. Also, you can go below 0% resists, causing penalty, this is when your target reports to take 123 (+12) dmg (hullo, Chaosstar, your spirit resists are very low .

AoM doesn't show up on the resist value in your dmg report for some reason. The dmg is lowered by AoM first, and then the players actual resists are put in use and shown on your dmg report (and, yeah, I tested this this too - 25% base and AoM3 did not report 35% total resists, it only reported that my target had 25% - but you will, ofcourse, notice that the actual dmg itself is lower. Same goes for PD.)

Hope it helps. Grats on becoming Emerald Ridere.

 

[Khartoum]

I also forgot that I was on the second page of posts, and that I am bumping something which is 5 days old... F me

 

[Vodkafairy]

isn't it like

aom is second tier resist so it cannot be debuffed? so say you get debuffed to 0% first tier resistance, but if you have aom3 you still have 9% resist left?

 

[Khartoum]

isn't it like

aom is second tier resist so it cannot be debuffed? so say you get debuffed to 0% first tier resistance, but if you have aom3 you still have 9% resist left?

Yep, RA resists can't be debuffed, but they still won't show up in the dmg report you get when attacking another player. Only resists from items/buffs are listed. I guess that means that AoM/PD might be applied afterwards like you say, and not before as I said - but either way it doesn't matter, I guess, since we can't see how much AoM/PD a player has anyway.

 

[Jjuraa]

tier 2 resists are also half as effective as tier 1 resists are they not due to their attributes?

 

[Melachi]

tier 2 resists are also half as effective as tier 1 resists are they not due to their attributes?

they are not necciserly half effective as tier 1, they are simply calculated after, so lets say you have

20% / 5% resist


you get hit for 100, first tier takes off 20,

so you are hit for 80 now, then second tier takes 5% of 80 which is 4

so your hit for a total of 76(-24)

your AoM was effectively 4% rather than 5%

 

[Vodkafairy]

tier 2 resists are also half as effective as tier 1 resists are they not due to their attributes?

if you have 0% first tier resist, second tier resist is 100% effective

if you have 100% first tier resist, second tier resist does nothing

thats the two extremes so aom becomes really effective against debuffs

 

[Neffneff]

. 51% - 35% is not 16%, it's 33.15%. Also, you can go below 0% resists, causing penalty, this is when your target reports to take 123 (+12) dmg (hullo, Chaosstar, your spirit resists are very low .

If the debuff is really a percentage or a percentage (sists) like i think you're saying it is..then HOW exactly can you go into plus dmg ? ;P considering unless you debuff 100%+ of sists with that system it would b impossible?

sorry if i've mis-understood your explanation.

 

[Khartoum]

If the debuff is really a percentage or a percentage (sists) like i think you're saying it is..then HOW exactly can you go into plus dmg ? ;P considering unless you debuff 100%+ of sists with that system it would b impossible?

sorry if i've mis-understood your explanation.

I guess you're asking about the LW debuffs,

I've only seen LW weapons generate +dmg in case of the targets armor type being vulnerable to this particular dmg type, which means that if the target has 0% or close to 0% resists - before or after a debuff - you can inflict a penalty on your target. Aside from that, I've yet to see, say, a spirit LW (which is neutral to all armor types) ever causing +dmg on a target, even on the players that have 0% spirit resists in their armor, and I used a spirit LW for roughly a year when I played my inf frequently.

I just tested this again while writing this post, with my inf versus my buffbot, after removing the clerics EQ to reach 0% spirit resists. After my spirit debuff landed, I still hit my highlander cleric against neutral resists. As I wrote in my first post, there is a difference between 30 and 30%


edit: ohhh, if you meant the Chaosstar thingy, I didn't mean I hit him for +dmg using spirit LW, I meant I cause huge penalty on him with body debuff due him having like 1% spirit

 

[Neffneff]

i see..so what your saying, using my shade example is:

26% SCed heat sist -35% LW debuff (26*0.65) = 16.9% heat sist left?

and then apply the armour penalty..so 16.9%-15% = 1.9% heat sist left?

 

[Ging]

i see..so what your saying, using my shade example is:

26% SCed heat sist -35% LW debuff (26*0.65) = 16.9% heat sist left?

and then apply the armour penalty..so 16.9%-15% = 1.9% heat sist left?

pheer not intimate m8, u have remedy so u will never have to worry

 

[Neffneff]

thing is...that's only 9.1% off my heat sists...where as GS javalins debuff 10..i check its not 10%...its just 10...so using a javlin would be slightly better..and still work on NS with remedy? ;PP

 

[Ging]

thing is...that's only 9.1% off my heat sists...where as GS javalins debuff 10..i check its not 10%...its just 10...so using a javlin would be slightly better..and still work on NS with remedy? ;PP

afaik remedy protects you from ANY proc/charge (applied poisens are seen as a proc) - u lucky fuckers!

So even if u get battlered your absorb will not be reduced, LGM weap procs do not affect you, you will ofc be hit by LGM weaps for the dmg type vs your resists so having AoM will give you that added protection. Remeber AoM is calculated as a % of the "%" of resist you dont have

so if you have 30% heat

AoM3 = 10% of 70% therefore 7%, so in total you will have 37%

Personally i'd rather spend the points in Toughness as alot of peeps use arti weaps and therefore the AoM will be usless.

150Hp vs 7% or less against magic resists.

With remedy you hardly have to worry as you wont be debuffed anyway

 

[Neffneff]

afaik remedy protects you from ANY proc/charge (applied poisens are seen as a proc) - u lucky fuckers!

So even if u get battlered your absorb will not be reduced,

I have heard this more times than i care to remember. So in the interest of for once checking to see if its right, i have looked at a fight i had with a hunter the other day that i fraps'd. the fight start with me having remedy up, and the hunter /useing battler on me. i can say, hand on heart, and without a doubt..that using battler on remedied shades works. i have the video to prove it spell effect went off, icon appeared at top of my screen, unfortunately due to system spam i cant see the actual msg saying im affected.. BUT!! when it wears off, i CAN see the msg saying "your armor returns to normal".

so..given this information, im gonna hazard a guess that charges CAN be used V. remedy..just not procs. therefore you can use javalins to debuff a remedied shades heat sist to something slightly worse than a heater proc (if the info in this thread is correct, which i may test later)

 

[Ging]

remedy is UNDERRPOWERED