lvl 50 ns spec

[old.Striglen]

Haveing a bit of a problem choseing a lvl 50 spec for my NS, so i was wondering if some of the old and wise Nightshades would have a crack at it

 

[Taggart]

Hmmm, i played a nightshade on hib excal for a lil bit and my pal used one to lvl 30 then we both deleted our NS's, why you may ask? they are nowhere near as good as a inf or sb, don't want to offend any nightshades out there, i just think they are a lil underpowerd. I also think the weps inf can use i.e. a galdius was alot better than the pierce weps i was using on hib.

If i was you id make a luri ranger instead, was very impressed with them.

 

[VidX]

Never make a luri ranger, gimped beyond belief.

Sure, they're small, have high dex, but have bugger all HP and hardly any melee damage.

Celt ranger all the way, low stealth, high melee and bow, rest in PF.

As for 'Shades... yeah, lower melee damage than Infs and SB's, simply becase the races are either Elf or Luri, with VERY low strength.

Therefore a Shade must spec high envenom (50 including items) to compensate for the lower melee damage. Lifebane combined with the highest envenorating poison will reduce a target to very low HP in a short time, with the rest of the damage being done via melee.

For the highest possible damage output, Shades must get the CS opener, meaning they need high stealth, so 50 stealth (including items) is needed.

Te rest of the points chould go into a combo of CS and a melee spec, and it is arguable whether CD is any use, personally I'll be using a shield on my Shade once 1.52 arrives and block is meant to work, so CD is not gonna matter.

 

[Jood]

Originally posted by vidx
Never make a luri ranger, gimped beyond belief.

Sure, they're small, have high dex, but have bugger all HP and hardly any melee damage.

This is only a problem if you errr mele and err get Hit.

Neither of which are on my things to do list

If you want to mele get a TANK, why start a ranger if your not gonna use RANGE :-\ errrrr.

 

[old.willowywicca]

Originally posted by vidx
Never make a luri ranger, gimped beyond belief.

Sure, they're small, have high dex, but have bugger all HP and hardly any melee damage.

I guess that makes me, a tank lurikeen, the most gimped character on the entire serve then usp??

 

[old.Bourkester]

celt ranger all the way

 

[Jonaldo]

nerf Malevolencia

 

[Dorin]

Celt rangers got about +150-200hp then me (+300 if compared elasias who is rr8). Well that is aint much and being small helps a lot (die after celts and elves 90% of the time). Their melee dmg output is ehmm +10-15dmg, then again not worth it. Dropping stealth way below is not a good idea either. Non-stealthers see you from miles, hmmm . Just get blades/piercers (me going for blades due piercers getting penalty against infis) up to 34-39 + rr/items and decent pathfinding for melee dmg add. Rangers never kill assassins whom successfull landed a PA. If PA fails, your chances are 25-50% (depends on assassin specc mainly + luck).
Having higher dex and quickness means i evade more and hit faster, against an assassin hitting fast badly needed couse of their 40%+ evade (interrupting his style is good thing too).

Best moment is with piercers when you evade +diamondback (enemy stunned for 5secs) + critshot with bow. Thou this happened to me once against an assassin

/salute

 

[VidX]

hehe

/em points at Sortia

Anyone who has seen Sortia in action should know what I mean...

You should know Jood, you've seen Jos tank oranges with Sortia after missing all the arrow shots

Seriously, roll a celt ranger, put no points in stealth, and split the points 2/5 melee, 2/5 bow, 1/5 PF and head to Thid, see how you do.

And Mal, no-one even gets to check how much HP you have in solo RvR, as you usually drop opponents in about 4 hits Besides, you're on the Tank HP table, Rangers aren't, and tank armour has a higher chance of having +con/+HP than ranger armour does

 

[old.Lianuchta]

Originally posted by old.willowywicca


I guess that makes me, a tank lurikeen, the most gimped character on the entire serve then usp??

As a LW Champ? Prolly Now if you were a Pierce/Shield Champ you'd have the best race stats wise.

The size thing must help offset the difference in dmg between you and say Locomo though.

 

[Jood]

Originally posted by vidx
hehe

You should know Jood, you've seen Jos tank oranges with Sortia after missing all the arrow shots

Yes and I can drop oranges before they reach me

I don't have anything against Celt elf's whatever and I sure don't doubt sortia's spec.

But to point the gimped stick in the direction of the Luri is just totally unfair... And to here it from an experienced player is somewhat disappointing.

Both chars are good but you have to appreciate the differences for what they are... Neither of them gimped.. just different design.


Luris rule for sniping, do the damage from range, get out when it gets to hot. Screw running in to 5 enemies to mele my target down like some rangers ive seen doing.


And what's the HP trade off anyway, the occasions where I get smacked i am nearly dead, even an extra few hundred HP's is going to do no more than make me do the slow walk. (saying that though im pretty sure i have never been engaged by same con, only higher cons so its hard to say)

All I know is when we get to respec im probably going to completely eliminate mele as I generally don't use it in RVR and RVR is how i am designed.

 

[Dorin]

Ranger goes melee ----> dead ranger most of the time, being a celt may help in some 1on1 encounters (dunno how does happen if not speccing in stealth thou ---> wont solo much imo, but maybe iam wrong). Our melee abilites are for making some dmg till help arrives or to take down targets that has been injured. Both luri and celt does the job, but as i said being small helps a lot, every lurikeen knows that (like cant be targetted that easy, shooting from bushes, hiding in bigger charachters etc). It depends on playstyle really.

Wanna be the best sharpshooter and fair melee? lurikeen
Wanna be fair sharpshooter and good melee? celt
Wanna look good, play rpg? elf

Believe me Usp, same specced lurikeen and celt will be the same in different ways of course. The luri loses hp and dmg output for better bow damage + small char and evade. Celts do less dmg via bow but their +hps and better melee dmg makes up for that.

 

[VidX]

Not saying that Luri rangers are not good, they are excellent snipers. But there are many occasions where sniping just isn't enough.

If you miss a crit shot, and someone charges you, you will have 2 choices: Run (or speed buff) and try to stealth, or to stand and melee.

With the inclusion of See Hidden, Rangers have been unable to solo as effectively as they did previously, due to assassin classes being able to detect them from anywhere in visible range.

A Celt ranger will be able to last alot longer, and perhaps stand more of a chance against them.

Just look at the highest ranger in the RP table, in the world. 3million RP's and is a Celt with high melee.

Jus saying that, in practice (and I have tested it) a Celt ranger with high melee is a far better choice for playing the game. Yes, nothing beats the natural camoflague a Luri has, but if you are targetted and /face'd, that will not help you. Personal opinion that Luri rangers with high stealth are more gimped than Celt rangers with high melee instead. Have my tested reasons. And the more I look at the different specs, the more I believe I'm right in my opinion. I cannot even try to argue with people, because everyone is entitled to their own opinion.

 

[old.willowywicca]

Originally posted by vidx
And Mal, no-one even gets to check how much HP you have in solo RvR, as you usually drop opponents in about 4 hits Besides, you're on the Tank HP table, Rangers aren't, and tank armour has a higher chance of having +con/+HP than ranger armour does

well in your first post you said that both luri hits AND melee damage was gimped self-contradiction big no-no uspy dear

Also, I don't think the champ epic armour has much +hits at all (can't rem stats but I'm sure it doesn't have more than +50 at most) and at present my con is still uncapped.. champ epic armour really doesn't have much con or hits at all really, and all other items then can be used by rangers as well as by champs..

we can compare my hits to rangers.. I have 1241 with aug con 1 and toughness 1.. so about 1180ish without.. I doubt that that is significantly more than rangers have.. hell that's only barely more than you have

Still tho I agree that at present melee is prob as important to a ranger as bow is, and for a better char celt is prob the way to go. Just your exclaimation of luri rangers as uber gimped is totally off too

Mal

 

[old.xetius]

Onto the original point: Nightshades

Depends on how you play

You will need at least 35 stealth and 35 envenom, as its relatively important to have 50 modified in both these, and with RR5 you can get both of these to 50 (Although you will need an older necklace with +envenom to get +11 from items).

40 Stealth gives you Safe Fall 4, which is nice... I only get 50% dmg from jumping from a lord tower.

The rest will go between Pierce/Blade and Critical Strike... depends on whether you want frontloaded dmg (Crit Strike) or sustained dmg (Weapon). Personally, Im at 44 + items and RR (48 I think) Crit Strike. This gives me the 3rd style in the evade chain (Hamstring, Leaper and Rib Separation), and am gonna wait until the evade fix patch to see how much Im gonna evade. If it doesnt improve, then I will probably respec to 44 pierce (Currently 37).

If you want to load your melee dmg, you could go for higher Pierce/Blade and lower Crit Strike to 34, which would give you your PA->CD chain for stun, then melee them with pierce styles.

Xetius Spec:
Stealth : 40
Envenom : 38
Pierce : 37
Crit Strike : 44

 

[revminster]

Revvy got 1141hp, but i'm currently trying to get some more +con items and maybe some aug con. With FA2 and IP I can stand up surprisingly long against tanks. (yeye i know i'm an easy kill)

What i do like about being a luri ranger is the attack speed using pierce weps. I had an pure melee encounter with a skald in Odin's. I purged his mezz, and started poking him and killed him. Checked my log and found that during the fight i had hit him more than 13 times, including DoT proccs, evade styles etc. while he hit me 3 times with his axe. (I have to add that i'm really low melee specced. 14+11 pierce, 8+4cd. Currently waiting for respec off course)
And about luri rangers being more gimped that Celts, well I think in the long run it's more a issue of how you spec you char. Luri rangers can be very effective also, cause of their attack spd, bow damage and high evade. Just like Dorin said. It's all a matter of how you like to play. You should enjoy playing your character. That's what really matters.

 

[VidX]

I was just going on the basis of Rev vs Sortia... Rev doesn't actually use his bow since he just fumbles all the time....


HOW THE F! CAN YOU FUMBLE WITH THAT HIGH A DEX???!?!!!??!?!??!

 

[old.willowywicca]

Originally posted by old.xetius
and am gonna wait until the evade fix patch to see how much Im gonna evade

evade is not bugged at present, it is only blocking and parrying that are bugged.. as is, I can't remember the last time I fought an assassin without them evading one of my attacks (does not include the ones I get annhilation off as first hit on ofc)

and rev is uber and a sweetah, leave im alone ewul usp

 

[revminster]

Originally posted by vidx
I was just going on the basis of Rev vs Sortia... Rev doesn't actually use his bow since he just fumbles all the time....


HOW THE F! CAN YOU FUMBLE WITH THAT HIGH A DEX???!?!!!??!?!??!

LOL

Before I hit 50, my fumble rate in PvE was terrible. Luckily, since hitting 50 and doing RvR all the time, the fumbling is very rare. But, hey, I'm not called Mr.Fumble for nothing

Thanks for your support Malev.

 

[old.xetius]

From the 1.53 patch notes

NEW THINGS AND BUG FIXES

- Found and fixed a bug that was causing players to not evade, parry and block in RvR at the same rate that they were parrying/blocking/evading against monsters. All characters who evade, block, and/or parry should now see themselves parrying/blocking/evading much more often in RvR.


As I said, I want to wait and see if this does actually make a difference... if it will yield similar results as an even con mob, then when druid buffed, Yellow cons struggle to touch me...

If this works, then look forward to not being able to hit assassins and friars.

Anyway, in reference to the original point. Whether the higher evade chains are worth speccing to 44+ relies on a) being able to evade reliably, and b) being able to land the style when you do evade. If you cant do both of these, then it may not be worth taking Crit Strike over 34, as I rarely land Stunning Stab, let alone being able to land 4 consecutive hits from an evade (Diamondback, Hamstring, Leaper, Rib Separation)... Have yet to land Rib Separation in RvR. Basically, if I cant land these, then I may respec down to 34 CS, which will give me a PA cap of 600 from 690 that its currently at.

If I do respec, I would probably go with

Stealth 40
Envenom 36
Crit Strike 34
Piercing 48

Although piercing doesnt need to be that high, as it gives diminishing returns over 50 modified, stealth and envenom are pointless over 50 (No benefit), and as Im lowerring Crit Strike, I only have CD, Blades or Pierce to raise... I choose Pierce...

If I can land evade chains, then I will keep CS at 44

 

[old.Patrick-S]

maybe its just me but if i see a scout or hunter in rvr i dont even need to land PA and they die before they get to do much (scouts can slam tho which can be nasty if they slam then move back and shoot but still usually get to em before i go less than 1/2 life) so doubt the extra 100hp or whatever would make a HUGE difference and also luris look so much better FEAR THE SIDEBURNS! and how hard they are to see has to count... i know i've had some lucky escapes due to my size ... because as a ranger now you have to use (imo) the scenary to hide properly and luris can hide oh so much more easily don't get me wrong celt rangers are great but against an assasin id rather be a luri

 

[Frair]

Hehe.. Celts rangers hae one advantage - without bow they looks like Blademasters Ok, i don't know how it can help, but they do

for NS - I still have to think if CD is really so useless for NS? You can go for 40 stealth, 37 envenom, 34 weapon, 39 CS and 26 CD, which is still quite nice, not too hard to raise and with 26CD is your chance to doublehit 25% + 13% = 38%, which is not too bad, and I think it's not too hard to raise it to 43% fast with +10 bonuses form RR and Items. Wish that someone did tests, but doesn't it should raise your dmg output significaly?

I'm going for quite high CD with my ranger and i know that even at low lvl it helps a lot.

 

[old.xetius]

CD is not that bad, as it increases the chance of landing both poisons on the first hit, but general concensus is that the other 4 skills (Stealth, Weapon, Crit Strike and Envenom) are more important, so usually leftover points go in CD, as to raise CD, we would need to sacrifice some skills in other areas

 

[Dorin]

btw Elasias got a buffbot as i know (with 1900hp + capped dex/qui/str ) he plays on Excal (hibernia is bigger and stronger there + bigger PvP action), RvsRing 12-14hours a day (played on hibernia/excal for a week just to check that). So pls don't compare him to us . Its a bit like comparing briton slash infi against saracen thrust inf. Everyone said thrust with DF is so much better and slash is not that good. Prydwen/Albion's nr.1 infi "was/is"a briton slasher. Depends on the player, on the server and the time he plays.

Rev is an old keen (very old, check his hair omg ! who drinks too much ale (cant find his arrows, 1 finger looks like 3 finger effect) thats why he fumbles and misses that much

 

[lairiodd]

My spec is:

stealth 40
pierce 40
envenom 39
critical 40
dual 8
total excluding dual: 159

From a mathematical perspective this maxes the total number of spec points I get (by keeping all the numbers close together)

Compared to xetius
Stealth : 40
Envenom : 38
Pierce : 37
Crit Strike : 44
total exclusing dual: 159

hmm so much for that theory ... well I probably have more dual than xetius

My spec was more designed for 2 things
1) allowed me get envenom and stealth to 50 once I got to 50
2) allowed me get high dots for pve when I was leveling at fins and was leeching when waiting for a slot. I used to dot with detaunt switch target dot + detaunt switch target melee with side positional ... I used to be able to make 50-70% of the exp I would have got in the group.

My spec was more based on me being rr2 ish than rr4 (and hopefully rr5 soon)

Xetius' seems to be the new "ideal" spec with crit strike higher. The change was caused because of the envenom gem in df which made it easier to get the full +11 for envenom from items = envenom doesnt need to be so high. Though as he stated it is more for the 4 hit chain of evade = 1 evade and then set up for the next 4 hits with high damage low end styles. Personally, I dont have the quickbar space atm for more than 2 of them ... and getting 4 styles to land in a row is hard with enemies having better block/evades themselves. So better evades may be a double edged swords we may get more chances to diamondback (which in my experience is what decides one on one fights) but we will also miss more diamondback attempts

I am also wondering if celtic dual might be worth speccing in more (I am so not going to respec for ages or at least until I find that out). Basically, 1 point of any of the other stats is worth more than 1 point of celtic dual, but to go from 1 to 8 (eg +7 celtic dual) costs around the same as 1 point of +pierce at 40. The real question is how much better is celtic dual over the other stats (main crit and pierce as envenom and stealth should be maxed for sure). If 1 point in pierce was worth 3 points of celtic dual, then it may be worth getting celtic dual to 11/12 as thats when celtic dual would cost 1/3 what pierce does at 40.

 

[old.Kian]

Originally posted by Frair
Hehe.. Celts rangers hae one advantage - without bow they looks like Blademasters Ok, i don't know how it can help, but they do

And vice versa of course... more than once I've pulled out my Jood uber toy bow during an RvR standoff and promptly been nearsighted

 

[revminster]

Originally posted by Dorin

Rev is an old keen (very old, check his hair omg ! who drinks too much ale (cant find his arrows, 1 finger looks like 3 finger effect) thats why he fumbles and misses that much

baah, you youngsters, stop harrassing me

 

[Dorin]

Sorry grandkeen. Ooops there i go again