[Long/Rant/Bored] I don't get this whine from people who say...

Tzeentch

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Mar 7, 2004
Messages
303
..TOA is ruining the game it sucks and whatever.
That Frontiers will kill off DAoC, especially the new RA system.

TOA is nice.

I don't know where all thise bullshit comes from, people saying it's the death to the casual gamer, it's gonna mess up RvR, people dont have time to do all the stuff etc.

TOA bought very few, important things.

1) Above all, new bonus types, cast speed, duration, melee damage, etc, which can only be found from TOA drops.

2) Artifacts, items that level up in specific conditions, giving them more utility, effects and procs etc.

3) Master Levels, lot's of questing, lots of zerging, to gain additional abilities.

Out of all of these, #3 is the most time consuming, by far. Of course everything depends on how you do it, if you want to say you are going to level your artifact solo as a mage using only staff melee on greens, then that might take longer, but using a bit of sense and work, MLs will be the most time consuming, AND difficult to do for the time-restricted, since most zergs are at set times, and run for hours which not all will commit to.

Funnily enough, #3 is not even that important. It will help, of course, who wouldnt want a bunch of additional abilities to help them out in RvR for free? But it is by no means neccessary. Most ML lines contain something of use for roaming RvR, but again, it's not going to be something that will fundamentally make or break the game for most people that play daoc, considering that many that frequent these forums, as well as go RvR, are not in set guilds/groups and the like. Tank lines have some cool funky stuff they can use, I think they have it worst if they want to stay competitive, especially if they dont have the time required to do MLs. Bodyguard comes at ML8, which is pretty close to 10, considering ML9 and 10 are a breeze. Mages get pretty much useless stuff, mostly camping/defending/attacking position tools. Support get perfecter, which again is mostly camping/defending/attacking position tools. A few more funny things in a few funny lines, again, nothing make/break, just obstacles.

#1 and #2 on the list are by far more important than MLs, and by far the most easier to obtain and xp for the 'casual' player of DAoC.

Get some friends/people, meet up at a set time, kill arti mob, xp arti.

Simple as that.

And it will be artifacts and their charges, drop items and their TOA bonuses that will make more impact on roaming RvR than most MLs.

Frontiers will be even better.

The new RA system, although very surprising and a bit disappointing, is understandable, and promising.

At the moment you have a general, 'cookiecutter' type RA spec for almost every class in DAoC - shield tanks get MoB4/5, purge, PF etc, anyone that can get det should take it to 4/5, every caster gets MoC, a few levels of WP and MoM, support get a few levels of WH, their class specific RA and so on and so forth.

It's very bland.

Frontiers will make people more unique and more specific in their role. This might not be a good thing, especially for lesser populated servers/realms, since there will be a lack of certain RA specced classes, but overall, it will become like speccing your class at 50 - you wont be able to choose from every ability you have access to, giving you an entire plethora of tools to do your job, but you will have to focus more on what you actually want to do now.

30 points for the highest tier of active RAs, most of which are only really viable and useful for roaming RvR at those levels.. think of it.. I'm rr10+, and I can pick 3 abilities at their highest tier, and some points left over.

Then there's the passives with 5 levels and at a total cost of 34 points, you gotta pick and choose wisely.

Look at the new RA chart, and try to figure something out for your class, and see what you come up with depending on the amount of points you currently have. No doubt you are going to lose a LOT of abilities, but you will notice that you become more powerful in what you do choose to spec with.

Getting MoC? You wont have to wait 30mins for your 15mins of fame anymore, it's going to be on a much lower timer for a reduced amount of dmg output, but for longer.

Tanks, will you go the det 5 route again? Or go with the new purge level? You can't get PF anymore, that's restricted to three classes, but if you go for det5/purge 3, then will you have enough to be effective in guarding with your reduced level of moblock?

It's going to be very interesting, people will be more focused in their role, and not just a generalised type of game that you play.

The only thing that worries me is that with (seemingly) a bigger lack of interest in the game from many people, and with each and every patch/expansion from Mythic giving heavy support and pushes to encourage larger battles - will there be enough to actually sustain this vision that they are putting out?

I cannot see how many of the things they seem to want us to enjoy doing in Frontiers can be achieved without much, much larger active RvR populations (at the very least, Hib/Exc).

I hope I'm wrong in the last respect, but it's something that's been troubling me for some time, and I haven't seen anything from Mythic to address that so far.

Overall, I look forward to the future of DAoC.. it could have been done a lot sooner tho :)
 

fl3a

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Jan 2, 2004
Messages
1,989
nice post ;)

tho ..
Tzeentch said:
Get some friends/people, meet up at a set time, kill arti mob, xp arti.

kinda impossible with all artifacts camped 24/7 ;)
 

Laalaa

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 26, 2004
Messages
79
Yea, ToA aint killer to casual player. Its the attitude i want it all and i want now.

I like ToA too and frontiers look nice :D.
 

Jaem-

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
2,498
Would be nice for them to be at a set ingame time, instead of camping it out 4+ rl hours.

Like, for an example, Sun Belt popping at 8am, and Belt of moon at 8pm.
 

Reno

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
967
fl3a said:
kinda impossible with all artifacts camped 24/7 ;)
Maybe that's the advantage of playing in Hibernia, only very few artifacts are camped 24/7. Most if not all artifacts you have a small/decent chance at giving the encounter a go if you come by with an artifact group.

Danita
 

Skilgannon

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
420
Most of the people who I hear saying ToA sucks are the sort of players who will not go back into RvR without ML10 and 6+ Artifacts at Lvl10, the sort of players who panic if someone else has more than them.

The players who I find are really enjoying ToA (Powergamer and Casual alike) are those who are taking the time to enjoy the MLs and Artifact Hunts, those who RvR some to break up the routine, and those who view ML encounters as a new experience and not a chore.

As for killing the casual gamer?

The only real hurdles for casual gamers imo is ML3 amd 4.2 Everything else is easily achievable unless you are adamant you have to be the first. I work fulltime, have a family and can't play as often as many. I have still managed ML9 and 6 activated artifacts (2 at lvl 10), and know many others who are at similar levels despite holding down job and family committments.

Bring on Frontiers..can't wait :)
 

Rulke

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
2,237
Tzee I got a plan, since you like ToA so much I'll PM you my account details and you can do all my ToA-ing for me!
 

horlely

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 4, 2004
Messages
131
agree whit tzee
And what i realy dont like in frontier is the portal system to the keeps :puke:
It will bring low travel of fg's in frontiers and the zerg battels are good for the realm whit the most high lvl chars.
Its like MYTHIC is all rdy out of idee's :eek7:
where are the funny things.
where is the horse riding ,and a horse whit a cart for join whit a fg ,etc
Ok we got the boats all rdy :clap: but what point for use it when ppl can use a port to keep system.


We can see all days ppl the quit daoc
What the do for get new players ? NOTHING
it will not easy for new ppl for lvl a char to 50
the second problem toa how the must the past ml's in the future :confused:

ps: sry for my bad english
 

Fedaykin

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,103
Skilgannon said:
Most of the people who I hear saying ToA sucks are the sort of players who will not go back into RvR without ML10 and 6+ Artifacts at Lvl10, the sort of players who panic if someone else has more than them.

The players who I find are really enjoying ToA (Powergamer and Casual alike) are those who are taking the time to enjoy the MLs and Artifact Hunts, those who RvR some to break up the routine, and those who view ML encounters as a new experience and not a chore.

As for killing the casual gamer?

The only real hurdles for casual gamers imo is ML3 amd 4.2 Everything else is easily achievable unless you are adamant you have to be the first. I work fulltime, have a family and can't play as often as many. I have still managed ML9 and 6 activated artifacts (2 at lvl 10), and know many others who are at similar levels despite holding down job and family committments.

Bring on Frontiers..can't wait :)

yeha u managed that cos u steal encounters skilgannon
 

Fana

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
2,181
Good post Tzeentch, i agree with most of it although as some people have said its *not* a breeze getting the artis you want, when you want (since they are *always* down/camped on mid/exc at least). And farming some scrolls and exping some artis can get tedious. But nevertheless i think ToA's merits outweight its flaws :)

horlely said:
agree whit tzee
And what i realy dont like in frontier is the portal system to the keeps
It will bring low travel of fg's in frontiers and the zerg battels are good for the realm whit the most high lvl chars.
Its like MYTHIC is all rdy out of idee's
where are the funny things.
where is the horse riding ,and a horse whit a cart for join whit a fg ,etc
Ok we got the boats all rdy but what point for use it when ppl can use a port to keep system

Dont agree at all with you here Horlely. The portal system is a great addition to the strategic options of rvr - you can capture towers attached to a keep to prevent porting to/from it, and you can stop enemy movement in strategic chokepoint positions on the map (take a look at the maps, they have tons of special terrain features).
With power and healwards etc in place, a small number of people will most likely be able to hold of a much larger force, such as we can already see at milegates today.

horlely said:
We can see all days ppl the quit daoc
What the do for get new players ? NOTHING
it will not easy for new ppl for lvl a char to 50
the second problem toa how the must the past ml's in the future

ps: sry for my bad english

Some people are quitting, mostly oldschool fgpr vs fgrp hardcore rvr people . But this is probably because they are tired of the game in general, having played it for 2+ years (nothing is fun forever if you do it to much). Still, the playerbase keeps increasing as far as i know. And New Frontiers is certainly a bid to retain those that find RvR to be the sole enjoyment in DAoC. So "nothing"? Imho they seem to do alot of new exciting things these days. And as far as new people and ML's are concerned i dont think they need to worry -there will always be ML raids, just not as frequent as now.
 

Skilgannon

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
420
horlely said:
the second problem toa how the must the past ml's in the future :confused:

I think there is a great deal of concern over this issue on the US servers where RvR is only just starting to return to normal. Players who got left behind feel they have very little hope off getting through the block points like 4.2 any time soon.

We have, however, seen a number of encounters dumbed down, and I feel that Mythic are aware of the issue and will continue the ease the pain a bit. Having said that, I remember when Mordred/Mouth and Co required multiple fgs to bring down. Nowadays it would be interesting to see just how few were needed. I reckon all bar Mordred could be duo'd.

Things change and players adapt pretty well overall.
 

Fedaykin

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,103
Skilgannon said:
Please elaborate.

Really looking forward to hearing this one ;)

the guard of valor encounter you and your SS buddies stole from New Order peopel who had been camping for hours
 

Skilgannon

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 22, 2004
Messages
420
Fedaykin said:
the guard of valor encounter you and your SS buddies stole from New Order peopel who had been camping for hours

Oh, you mean the one where you guys had died and /released?

And when we came across Danos and engaged, NO came running in and tried to kill steal? Forgot to thank you at the time, but your Guild's therg pets really increased our damage. :cheers:
 

censi

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Jan 18, 2004
Messages
4,632
I dunno, when TOA came out I was hungry and looking forward to playing daoc again. I worked out what i would need to get to make a good post TOA template (because being good is important, and without the full use of TOA opponents that have it would considerably pwn you).

but after what must be over a month of the TOA grind I really just want to get back to RVR but cant because its at the back of my mind to get this TOA treadmill done. I am starting to play less and this means getting the toa treadmill done is slowing down even more.

TOA was bold for sure but I think it was just a bit to much to put in one patch. If they had staggered artifacts and ML over 2 patches it would have been a bit easier to swallow.

Also I do have concerns about the RA changes. I do not have complete confidence in desicions mythic make about classes. They do so many u-turns on changes that go in but the u-turn takes years of screeming at them before they realise they were so very vyer wrong.

Sounds arrogent to say but theres a few things in this RA change preposal that I know are going to be damaging to the game and the fine realm balance that needs to exists. (and when I say I know, I really do do know, specially things like am on mincers thats just gonna kill the game from my point of view.)

I also have concerns about things like ML line balancing, buff shearing, passive TS on archers..

its not all doom and gloom though TOA has been some good fun. its just a lot to swallow in one bite. And the casual gamers are right it is hard to compete with the students and un-employed bums,, when you simple only have about 5-10 hours to play daoc a week you cant cover as much ground as those who spend 50-70 hours a week player (and theres a lot of gorund to cover)
 

Yaemon

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 21, 2004
Messages
270
Well I still think ToA sucks but that's because I hate pve.. I believe that the game will be fun again with frontiers so thats why Im sticking with it. For me and (I believe) many other players ToA is just a boring obstacle in an otherwise fun game.

For me playing a game should be all about fun and I don't really like periods when the game feels like a second work. Thats how it feels like most of the time nowadays and thats why I believe many people have chosen to leave.
 

vintervargen

Banned
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
2,779
for roaming fg rvr, i feel MLs and artifacts are a bit overrated. grp cure disease, and egg of youth ability is ok... but trying to use 5 artifacts in one fight when tanks hit 2x harder with toa bonuses, and casters do 2x dmg as well, theres simply not enough time to use all stuff :(
 

censi

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Jan 18, 2004
Messages
4,632
dunno about that. each ML line has at least 2-3 highly usable things in RvR that make a difference.

agree with artifacts though really anyting more than 2 is just to much not really worth it.
 

Asha

Fledgling Freddie
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Dec 25, 2003
Messages
1,355
I do _like_ toa. I enjoy the encounters and haven't rushed the mlvl ... in truth I didn't get to do mlvl3 or 4 because I don't get home til 12gmt so a friend had to do them for me :(

I enjoyed toa til now, but I'm at a point now where I can't go forward until some bugs get fixed, and til I can bring myself to camp for HE again. Don't think it's about having everything at lvl10, but the frustration is that SC is expensive and you can't redo it... and the stats posted over the web and the things posted about effects are often contradicting each other. So.. you can't really SC til you have everything and lvl it to a certain point (probably not til 10). And to rvr w/out SC is not fun :)

Frontiers I am v unhappy about. I feel like I am being nerfed again while my counterparts get a boost. No, I don't like it. Yes, as primary Alb healer I'll still get groups, but I feel so frustrated with how Mythic treats people who chose to role a cleric. I also feel that clerics are once again taking a hit compaired to casters and tanks. And sorry, but there will be cookie cutter RAs for clerics. You will have to get the gay MoC or you might as well jack it in. It is the only way you will get a spell off. Can I out heal casters with 30 second moc ? Tanks with perma purge? No. No, I am not happy about frontiers. As a rejuv cleric, I almost quit when the smite nerfs came through. I don't know if I keep playing this gimp class after frontiers. Forgive the cleric-centred view but it's the class I played for 2 years.
 

Exioce

Part of the furniture
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Dec 22, 2003
Messages
922
TOA is fun enough, but it's about 1/10th as much fun as logging on for some evening RvR.
It's not even as if TOA will make rvr more enjoyable once you're finished with it, RvR was reasonably balanced in 1.65 and didn't need anything added to it.
 

Kagato

Fledgling Freddie
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Dec 22, 2003
Messages
3,777
What a load of utter rubbish.

ToA is pathetic, especially to the casual gamer, its basically Mythics way of 'training' us for the zerging we will be forced to do in the RvR expansion. By giving us pve quests we HAVE to do to stand a chance, and that can only be completed by a mass zerg.

And if for some reason, like say real life, you cannot make it to the organised zerg event, your basically fucked for a month till somebody decides to try and organise another zerg, 4.2 ring any bells?

Mythic are just constantly moving the goal-posts all the time, just when you get to the stage where your happy with your character and ready to enjoy it, you have to spend abother 2-3 months in lame pve, which alot of the time you cannot do because you need so many other people to achieve anything.

As for the RvR Expansion, sorry but this is also shit, 'more powerful in what you can do?'

Bollocks, every single major ability is nerfed, not only is it nerfed but you must spend 30 or more realm levels to buy it at its highest ability, the highest ability more often then not is STILL WEAKER then it used to be.

Highest levels of Det and BoF and SB are all still weaker then what they were before, and yet cost X3 what they did before.

Please explain to me how this is stronger or better ? And now with the new RA system Albions are basically fucked over again anyway, its only the more powerful RA's that kept us going before, and the chances are that was purely accidental rather then design.
 

Spamb0t

Fledgling Freddie
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Feb 4, 2004
Messages
966
TOA is ruining the game it sucks.


dont have anything against frontiers and new ra system though.. i think!
 

[RR]Cyclodia

Banned
Joined
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Messages
52
Tzeentch said:
..TOA is ruining the game it sucks and whatever.
That Frontiers will kill off DAoC, especially the new RA system.

TOA is nice.

I don't know where all thise bullshit comes from, people saying it's the death to the casual gamer, it's gonna mess up RvR, people dont have time to do all the stuff etc.

TOA bought very few, important things.

1) Above all, new bonus types, cast speed, duration, melee damage, etc, which can only be found from TOA drops.

2) Artifacts, items that level up in specific conditions, giving them more utility, effects and procs etc.

3) Master Levels, lot's of questing, lots of zerging, to gain additional abilities.

Out of all of these, #3 is the most time consuming, by far. Of course everything depends on how you do it, if you want to say you are going to level your artifact solo as a mage using only staff melee on greens, then that might take longer, but using a bit of sense and work, MLs will be the most time consuming, AND difficult to do for the time-restricted, since most zergs are at set times, and run for hours which not all will commit to.

Funnily enough, #3 is not even that important. It will help, of course, who wouldnt want a bunch of additional abilities to help them out in RvR for free? But it is by no means neccessary. Most ML lines contain something of use for roaming RvR, but again, it's not going to be something that will fundamentally make or break the game for most people that play daoc, considering that many that frequent these forums, as well as go RvR, are not in set guilds/groups and the like. Tank lines have some cool funky stuff they can use, I think they have it worst if they want to stay competitive, especially if they dont have the time required to do MLs. Bodyguard comes at ML8, which is pretty close to 10, considering ML9 and 10 are a breeze. Mages get pretty much useless stuff, mostly camping/defending/attacking position tools. Support get perfecter, which again is mostly camping/defending/attacking position tools. A few more funny things in a few funny lines, again, nothing make/break, just obstacles.

#1 and #2 on the list are by far more important than MLs, and by far the most easier to obtain and xp for the 'casual' player of DAoC.

Get some friends/people, meet up at a set time, kill arti mob, xp arti.

Simple as that.

And it will be artifacts and their charges, drop items and their TOA bonuses that will make more impact on roaming RvR than most MLs.

Frontiers will be even better.

The new RA system, although very surprising and a bit disappointing, is understandable, and promising.

At the moment you have a general, 'cookiecutter' type RA spec for almost every class in DAoC - shield tanks get MoB4/5, purge, PF etc, anyone that can get det should take it to 4/5, every caster gets MoC, a few levels of WP and MoM, support get a few levels of WH, their class specific RA and so on and so forth.

It's very bland.

Frontiers will make people more unique and more specific in their role. This might not be a good thing, especially for lesser populated servers/realms, since there will be a lack of certain RA specced classes, but overall, it will become like speccing your class at 50 - you wont be able to choose from every ability you have access to, giving you an entire plethora of tools to do your job, but you will have to focus more on what you actually want to do now.

30 points for the highest tier of active RAs, most of which are only really viable and useful for roaming RvR at those levels.. think of it.. I'm rr10+, and I can pick 3 abilities at their highest tier, and some points left over.

Then there's the passives with 5 levels and at a total cost of 34 points, you gotta pick and choose wisely.

Look at the new RA chart, and try to figure something out for your class, and see what you come up with depending on the amount of points you currently have. No doubt you are going to lose a LOT of abilities, but you will notice that you become more powerful in what you do choose to spec with.

Getting MoC? You wont have to wait 30mins for your 15mins of fame anymore, it's going to be on a much lower timer for a reduced amount of dmg output, but for longer.

Tanks, will you go the det 5 route again? Or go with the new purge level? You can't get PF anymore, that's restricted to three classes, but if you go for det5/purge 3, then will you have enough to be effective in guarding with your reduced level of moblock?

It's going to be very interesting, people will be more focused in their role, and not just a generalised type of game that you play.

The only thing that worries me is that with (seemingly) a bigger lack of interest in the game from many people, and with each and every patch/expansion from Mythic giving heavy support and pushes to encourage larger battles - will there be enough to actually sustain this vision that they are putting out?

I cannot see how many of the things they seem to want us to enjoy doing in Frontiers can be achieved without much, much larger active RvR populations (at the very least, Hib/Exc).

I hope I'm wrong in the last respect, but it's something that's been troubling me for some time, and I haven't seen anything from Mythic to address that so far.

Overall, I look forward to the future of DAoC.. it could have been done a lot sooner tho :)

Toa sucks balls :p

And yeah frontiers gonna look nice.
 

Garbannoch

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 27, 2003
Messages
557
I like ToA more than I have thought I would but 2 things to consider:

- set groups profit much more from ToA than random groups / casual players do. Why? Because they can design their group and fit in the right artifacts and abilities to achieve optimal performance. Also dedicated RvR groups are bound to have more artifacts and higher MLs than most casual players.

- you get restricted to one character more or less. While it was easy pre-ToA to roll a new alt, give it some SC stuff and be ready to RvR you now have to get artifacts, level them, even do MLs do stay competitive. At least for me this takes too long and I will only do it for my main char.
 

Icebreaker

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,294
I like ToA

And Frontiers with the new RA System is even better

Lots of things to get to increase my defensive skills + nice Group Defence Ras like the ones here:


Soldiers Barricade

Grants the group an absorption bonus to all forms of damage based on the percentages listed.

Dashing Defence

The tank can block and parry for all groupmates within a 1000 radius for the duration listed.

Give!


Der Ice
 

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