Line of Sight

[RS|Phil]

Really what's going on with this since 1.70. I'm getting continually hit even when both me and the attack are standing still and there's a wall in the way. Seems to be only certain people doing it atm. They just stand there, looking at me, then suddently start casting - I think " That can't be me ...." but sure enough BOOM bolted thru a rampart, not once, but twice.

Over and over and over.

Something is really wrong.

 

[Pohjan Poika]

lagg...
if someone started nuking and then you move out of sight you can pretty much count on that they've already finished the casting and are doing a follow-up.

 

[RS|Phil]

But that's the thing as I said, I don't always move into LOS for the to start casting. For example, ran up a tower part Captain and to ramparts.
Direct line from door to a crenellation, behind a rampart. At no point during this am I visible to the attacker. The only way I'd be visible is if the rampart were not there.

This thought lead me somewhere to an explanation actually. I think what's happening is that people are lagging off like lag ghosts and are targettable. To explain, I run to the rampart and I arent in view but server lags me and I actually pass thru the rampart for a few seconds. If the person has me targetted already they can conceivably get a shot off at me.

Thing is it seems to be the same people, so it must be a combination of them lagging too.

 

[Rage]

Greetings

This sort of thing is common. If its casters its probably latency related, if you get hit by archers, it can either be the damage delay (up to 2 secs after the arrow actually hits), or a nice volley (which oddly enough you can shoot from within a locked chest into an adjacent room with no doors ;-).

with regards
Rage

 

[Flimgoblin]

if you run up to the rampart, on the other person's screen (depending on connection and computer spec) you may lag forward through the rampart and off onto the ground for a few paces. Same reason you see people lagging through walls etc. before disappearing back.

It's down to the message about you having stopped not reaching the other person - their client predicts you'll keep moving forward until it's told otherwise.

 

[Sanzor]

No always due to lag. There is flaws on ramparts and towers. Like bridges...you can stand on top of the place and "be safe". Although at some points you can nuke through the ramparts, which has costed my poor warriors life several times :-/

 

[Aiteal]

My favorite one is being FZ'ed into a keep you are attacking through the wall by a mincer in the courtyard before the obligatory

'you can't do that while riding'
'sojo mincer hits you for XXX'
'his caster mate hits you for XXX'
'mincer and caster friend /laugh and /slap you'

that always makes me smile

 

[RS|Phil]

Gah. Its just so annoying. Stood there in a safe area chatting away and then BOOM BOON ..tf... urgh... /bu "?????"


:_/

 

[Danya]

Also don't forget if the tower/keep is high enough level to have murder holes you can be nuked through the floor while standing behind a crenellation. the angle you have to stand at on the floor to get LOS on someone is quite odd, so it might look like they are nuking through the wall.

 

[twuth]

also afaik tall LoS is to your head, so if someone gets your head popping up over a rampart etc they can nuke you

 

[RS|Phil]

Level 1 keeps so not the murder holes. :| There really is NO reason for it happen.

Look here's a digram

 

[Kalba]

Level 1 keeps so not the murder holes. :| There really is NO reason for it happen.

Look here's a digram

This really explains a lot, thanks!

 

[Ghaladriel]

lolz ye xDD

 

[Dafft]

think you missing the 50 million other albs with him, hence Kalba saying it makes sense.


tbh 1.70 Nf los sucks peanuts

 

[RS|Phil]

Hehe. Well sorry drawing two stickmen taxed my MS paint skills to the limit.

 

[enigma]

Why it happens has already been said, the reason is lag.

Even just a small movement inside the keep can some times result in a lag ghost that moves out through the walls. This ghost can be targeted and attacked by people outside of the keep. Thus, you'll take damage.

 

[RS|Phil]

So then the extreme lag we've been getting since 1.70 is the underlying cause it would seem. Couple with less open field combat and more opportunity to notice gimpish LoS bugs.

 

[Sarnat]

I think 1.71 solves some of these issues.

 

[Kelio]

what i find funny is i can stand on walls in saftey, close to what you drew on picture, i can get off a shot nor use volley and short after i get los message i get assist shot by 100 hunters/scouts wonder why they can hit me. is it because im higher up on then (wtf?) is it because they have aimbot (again wtf?) or could it be that their "penetrating arrows" acctually can penetrate everything including walls? (once again WTF?) if that is so NERF THEM ALL

 

[Flimgoblin]

So then the extreme lag we've been getting since 1.70 is the underlying cause it would seem. Couple with less open field combat and more opportunity to notice gimpish LoS bugs.

it's people's machine's not being able to cope with the increased load of NF more than anything else.

 

[RS|Phil]

it's people's machine's not being able to cope with the increased load of NF more than anything else.

If the game has been designed to put such strain that an Athlon 3200 with a 9700 Pro and a gig memory (my PC) cannot cope then that's some very serious short sightedness.
Or do you mean that having a lower spec PC causes odd latency effects enabling people to fire through walls? So in fact having a rat shit pc is better now?

 

[Boni]

If the game has been designed to put such strain that an Athlon 3200 with a 9700 Pro and a gig memory (my PC) cannot cope then that's some very serious short sightedness.
Or do you mean that having a lower spec PC causes odd latency effects enabling people to fire through walls? So in fact having a rat shit pc is better now?

Ill try and explain it... listen carefully.

a). You (or whoever the stickman on the battlements is) is suffering some lag ,this is due mostly to your machine, though it can be caused by other stuff like youre poor connection.

b). My character is watching your character from the ground, I have your target, by bow is drawn, and all I need is a frame of you in sight to cast.

c). You move left or right (even just a millimeter), the server picks up that you are are moving left, and moves your character left a tiny bit (still out of sight).

d). You stop moving (after all you only tapped strafe left a tiny bit, and you dont wanna leave cover), but your suffering some lag and the server doesnt get this message as soon as it should. It extrapolates your position, i.e. puts you where it thinks you should be, in DAOC this means if you where moving the server will assume you are still moving. This is a nice feature, being stuck in a fg moving over terrain with people lagging wouldnt work any other way and people would seem a lot more jittery without it.

e). So the server decides that you have moved out into the open, my archer sees you and bang there goes the arrow, or perhaps 2 queued up bolts from a caster, whatever. You get hit by these as the LOS calcuation is done on their end based on your laggy position.

Theres no benefit from the other person having a slow PC, his view of the world comes from the server and the servers lagged view of where you are.

Increasing your own spec or changing ISP could help, its you thats teh laggy one somehow.

Another thing to remember is if you push forwards into that battlement that you are hugging and lag, then on other peoples screens youll lag straight though the battlement and walk out across the land at floor height. Easy prey with no height advantage...

Only thing to do is understand how it works so you can avoid it, dont move around unnecessarily, dont push into battlements, turn off effects and lower detail in large keep fights.

 

[RS|Phil]

Ill try and explain it... listen carefully.

a). You (or whoever the stickman on the battlements is) is suffering some lag ,this is due mostly to your machine, though it can be caused by other stuff like youre poor connection.

I'm well aware of the principles underlying the problem thanks. The above is incorrect. My PC is fine and so is my connection. I tend not to suffer lag except in ToA....
But even then I'd accept that it COULD be down to my PC or connection - But for one thing. Other people are standing round me and say I never moved. I also see people suddenly get shot and nuked - but they never moved and were never in LoS.

See, for the server the think they are would to me suggest all the surrounding peopel ALSO see them as moving - and the person who's after them. But they do NOT! They just stand there thinking they're safe and POW. Everyone around them then does /em scratches head and a rightfully indignant /bu WTF!!!! is sent out.

As I've said before, people are perfectly safe, perfectly surrounded by four walls, and then Ka-BOOM- dead.

 

[Boni]

I'm well aware of the principles underlying the problem thanks. The above is incorrect. My PC is fine and so is my connection.

Well if you live outside Paris then you come through opentransit and lag like everyone else here...

If it isnt lag and you are perfectly stationary and have been for a while then it could be GTAOE, siege, volley, any number of RAs, some gimp standing closeby in clear view getting hit by AOE spells. But ive neved seen what you describe without a perfectly good cause.

 

[RS|Phil]

The people I'm talking about that have expeienced it (that are in my guild) are UK aye, so that could be the common cause. It's very strange and if there was a way to record it without lagging the game and thus causing it even more, I'd just record if for you to look at. I'm fairly certain it was never this bad prior to 1.70 but that may just be lack of keep warfare.

 

[Deerstalker]

The people I'm talking about that have expeienced it (that are in my guild) are UK aye, so that could be the common cause. It's very strange and if there was a way to record it without lagging the game and thus causing it even more, I'd just record if for you to look at. I'm fairly certain it was never this bad prior to 1.70 but that may just be lack of keep warfare.

It's always been there, remember the first time I saw a "bendy shot" at old beno, big bad purple kobbie hunter on the battlements of beno (I was lvl 25 at the time ) take the shot , and it made this big curving flight path into the gate house and missed. Obviously one of us, or the server, lagged and the kobbie was inside the gatehouse when I took my shot.

Try to avoid any type of speed, get the casters/musicians to turn it off inside keeps, try walking around keeps instead of running everywhere esp near walls, don't run / walk into the battlement walls and use the collison to stop you.
And number 1. tip, reroll a short character, cause los is done from the top of your head now not your feet

DS.