Libya

[Job]

This is beyond belief, I have yet to see such a media backed lie-athon about this.
Most of the people back Gaddafi and we are killing people to stop him wiping out rebels who killed a load of people to get their own way.

At what point did these rebels become freedom fighters and the Libyan forces become 'murderous thugs?'
The media of this country has it's hand and whole arm up the governments ass
and we all sit here cheering like game show audiences.

 

[Thorwyn]

Where have you been hiding in the last 20 years?

 

[Job]

Away from government backed media bullshit.

It's like the Muhjadeen all over again, lefty journalists swooning over pillocks with anti tanks guns they found in a ditch shooting everything that moves and declaring themselves the 'voice of the people'.
Meanwhile the western governments are rubbing their hands together at being able to oust Gaddafi and get his oil and all the time looking like the good guys.

 

[Chosen]

Yes, the master plan are in. We go there and take their oil! Wake up, bombing military places, which are used to hurt civilians is not a evil act to do.

And I doubt we will ever even put footsoldiers in the country(Since the "rebells" don't want us to do it).

He said he would stop the attack and have a weapon peace, to have a diplomatic resolution. Which he broke. Whats so hard to see about this?

Yes, ofcourse there ought to be a portion of the population to support him, its like that everywhere. Even Saddam had full support from some of the civilians. But that doesnt give them right to use heavy weaponary on their own population!

 

[Access Denied]

Regardless of how the Government and media are spinning this, the fact remains that Libya and Gaddafi have a history of sheltering and providing training camps for terrorists. Ousting Gaddafi is the wrong thing to do now that he's changed his tune, should've been done when he was still helping terrorists.

 

[cHodAX]

Job is spot on, a stable country has been de-stabilised to further open up the gas and oil deposits.

 

[Chosen]

Job is spot on, a stable country has been de-stabilised to further open up the gas and oil deposits.

You beeing ironic ?

 

[Ormorof]

well it started as a peaceful protest until the libyan government opened fire on them...

this no-fly zone situation should have been enforced weeks ago though now its just going to lead to a lot more death and destruction...

also got to wonder if it could end with wider implications, the West is supporting a popular uprising in Libya, while turning a blind eye to the brutal suppresion of a similar uprising in Bahrain, on the other hand Iran are pretty pissed at the way things in Bahrain are going and already consider Bahrain to be Iranian territory, if they start bombing Bahrains government troops (and the Saudi troops) could we end up with a much bigger and wider conflict?

 

[cHodAX]

You beeing ironic ?

How so? Libya has not been at war with anyone. This is an internal matter and we don't have the right to interfere. Now, let me ask you a question.

Where were we when tens of thousands were being bombed and murdered in Dafour? Rawanda? East Timor?

I have seen nothing in Libya that hasn't happened elsewhere to a much greater extent, they are putting down a sponsored rebellion, sadly the west are happy to back that rebellion as a means of opening up the oil and gas fields thus keeping big buisness fed.

 

[Chosen]

How so? Libya has not been at war with anyone. This is an internal matter and we don't have the right to interfere. Now, let me ask you a question.

Where were we when tens of thousands were being bombed and murdered in Dafour? Rawanda? East Timor?

I have seen nothing in Libya that hasn't happened elsewhere to a much greater extent, they are putting down a sponsored rebellion, sadly the west are happy to back that rebellion as a means of opening up the oil and gas fields thus keeping big buisness fed.

First of all, its not because of the "western" countries that made Libya de-stabilised now. If you have viewed the news or atleast had some information about it the last couple of weeks. You wouldve known that the civilians themself have tried to revolusionise the country.

Only thing we are doing now, is provide them a protection from getting bombed by heavy weaponary such as tanks and airplanes. And to do this, we need our own planes in the air, hence we are tactically taking out libyan air defences, to make sure we dont loose our own planes doing this.

Just because nothing like this didnt happen in the other countries you mentioned there, doesnt mean we should just sit back and let a portion of the civilians down there get killed by a dictator. That refuses to do this the diplomatic way.

 

[old.Tohtori]

No comment.

It's all speculation, hearsay, accusations based on nothing and as it's the internet of all things, will lead to nothing

All that is worth saying is; it's interesting to see where/if this goes.

 

[cHodAX]

First of all, its not because of the "western" countries that made Libya de-stabilised now. If you have viewed the news or atleast had some information about it the last couple of weeks. You wouldve known that the civilians themself have tried to revolusionise the country.

Only thing we are doing now, is provide them a protection from getting bombed by heavy weaponary such as tanks and airplanes. And to do this, we need our own planes in the air, hence we are tactically taking out libyan air defences, to make sure we dont loose our own planes doing this.

Just because nothing like this didnt happen in the other countries you mentioned there, doesnt mean we should just sit back and let a portion of the civilians down there get killed by a dictator. That refuses to do this the diplomatic way.

Really? Who are these rebel leaders? Why couldn't the western governments open a dialogue with them?

Oh and where in the U.N. charter does it say we invade countries trying to put down a rebellion?

110 tomahawk missiles to take out air defences? Nope. We have been hitting military bases a long way from the conflict zone. We are strategically neutering the leadership via airstrikes to force Ghadaffi out. Regieme change via the backdoor this time folks.

See you all in a few years when Syria or Iran are targetted.

 

[Helme]

If we hadn't sold the crazy dictator the weapons to kill civilians with this wouldn't have happened in the first place, but that would mean some corporation would have lower profits and we can't have that.

The intervention now though is obviously just the west angling for maintaining control over Libya's resources, either by appearing as a 'helping hand' to the rebels who might take control, or by intimidating Gadaffi with a show of force that will be enough to make him play along later.

 

[cHodAX]

If we hadn't sold the crazy dictator the weapons to kill civilians with this wouldn't have happened in the first place, but that would mean some corporation would have lower profits and we can't have that.

The intervention now though is obviously just the west angling for maintaining control over Libya's resources, either by appearing as a 'helping hand' to the rebels who might take control, or by intimidating Gadaffi with a show of force that will be enough to make him play along later.

We didn't sell them to him, the Russians did. So that point is mute.

The second part is spot on though, we are happy to undermine the current leadership because it opens up the oil/gas supplies to the west. That is what this is really about.

 

[Chosen]

Really? Who are these rebel leaders? Why couldn't the western governments open a dialogue with them?

Oh and where in the U.N. charter does it say we invade countries trying to put down a rebellion?

110 tomahawk missiles to take out air defences? Nope. We have been hitting military bases a long way from the conflict zone. We are strategically neutering the leadership via airstrikes to force Ghadaffi out. Regieme change via the backdoor this time folks.

See you all in a few years when Syria or Iran are targetted.

That is actually a FN resolution. If you have read into it, you would've understood.


If a weapon peace is not uphold then the FN can intervene using all necessary power to protect a civilian population from getting hurt. And that all values owned or under controll(in this case the by the libyan government) shal be taken, and the values given back to the people.

This resolution was made in 1973.

And we havent really invaded the country itself. We got no footsoldiers in that country at all, and only take out military targets to make sure they cant be used against the civilians. We are making sure that the Libyan government are following the FN resolution. And since they broke it, we are using power to make sure they cant their army to slaughter their people.

 

[Scouse]

Job is spot on, a stable country has been de-stabilised to further open up the gas and oil deposits.

This.

Gadaffi's a ****, yes. But so are the "rebels". Either way, this isn't a "popular" uprising.

Where were we when tens of thousands were being bombed and murdered in Dafour? Rawanda? East Timor?

This too.


This is about oil and western opportunism.

 

[Embattle]

I would say you shouldn't use the oil/gas argument since it is generally BS but considering the other things a few people have said it doesn't really matter.

 

[cHodAX]

That is actually a FN resolution. If you have read into it, you would've understood.


If a weapon peace is not uphold then the FN can intervene using all necessary power to protect a civilian population from getting hurt. And that all values owned or under controll(in this case the by the libyan government) shal be taken, and the values given back to the people.

This resolution was made in 1973.

And we havent really invaded the country itself. We got no footsoldiers in that country at all, and only take out military targets to make sure they cant be used against the civilians. We are making sure that the Libyan government are following the FN resolution. And since they broke it, we are using power to make sure they cant their army to slaughter their people.

Your whole arguement is blown out of the water when we launch tomahawk missiles at military bases nowhere near the conflict zone. That whole exercise is designed to enflame the situation and force Ghaddadi to launch an all out attack on the rebel stronghold. There has been ZERO diplomatic effort to resolve this, just sabre rattling and backdoor politics. Oh and AGAIN...

Tens of thousands of civilians were murdered in Dafour by the government, it happened over the course of years and the west, U.N. or whoever did NOTHING! You can stick your resolution where the sun doesn't shine, you either protect ALL civilian populations or none, sadly the west only goes where the oil/gas is unless it is white faces that are dying.

 

[Himse]

Meh. Glad we get to waste a vast quantity of money on bombing the fuck out of another country when they are 'cutting back' on all kinds of other stuff.

No point getting angry about it, never gonna get anywhere haha.

 

[AngelHeal]

...such beautifull countries fcked up because lack of education....

 

[cHodAX]

Meh. Glad we get to waste a vast quantity of money on bombing the fuck out of another country when they are 'cutting back' on all kinds of other stuff.

No point getting angry about it, never gonna get anywhere haha.

Yep, another smoking ruin created for the sake of keeping the oil boys happy. Libya has been stable for 40 years, not attacked any of it's neighbours and has slowly opened up to world in the last decade. Sadly it wasn't at a rate acceptable to the Yanks and so now we have another conflict on the horizon with terrorist attacks attached as a nice bonus.

More meat for the meatgrinder.

 

[Chosen]

Your whole arguement is blown out of the water when we launch tomahawk missiles at military bases nowhere near the conflict zone. That whole exercise is designed to enflame the situation and force Ghaddadi to launch an all out attack on the rebel stronghold. There has been ZERO diplomatic effort to resolve this, just sabre rattling and backdoor politics. Oh and AGAIN...

Tens of thousands of civilians were murdered in Dafour by the government, it happened over the course of years and the west, U.N. or whoever did NOTHING! You can stick your resolution where the sun doesn't shine, you either protect ALL civilian populations or none, sadly the west only goes where the oil/gas is unless it is white faces that are dying.

Ofcourse military bases gets taken out, even tho its not near the conflict zone. What makes you think it wont be used against the civilians?

And saying that you have to protect all civilian populations or none, is just utterly crap. So since we dont help all countries with food and medical supplyes, we should help none?

 

[Helme]

No he's saying that economic benefits shouldn't decide who we help and who we don't.

 

[Chosen]

No he's saying that economic benefits shouldn't decide who we help and who we don't.

Still, helping some are still better then helping none. And we don't even know if this is done because of economical benefits! Thats just purely speculations.

How much money do you think the US made of the iraqi war? Since you probably think they stole all their oil.

 

[cHodAX]

Ofcourse military bases gets taken out, even tho its not near the conflict zone. What makes you think it wont be used against the civilians?

And saying that you have to protect all civilian populations or none, is just utterly crap. So since we dont help all countries with food and medical supplyes, we should help none?

BANG and thankyou.

The UN resolution states that only forces actively engaged against civilian targets can be attacked. You resolution arguement falls to peices right there, bases far away from the conflict are not legitmate targets unless they go hostile and they have not.

 

[Job]

The headlines today. 'British forces unleash warplanes and missiles against Gaddafi'.
What that really means is 'hundreds of poor shmuck Libyan soldiers get blown to bits by a foriegn power while doing their duty'.
So these 'rebels' attack them and they fight back, now we are dropping the best weapons in the world on their heads.
It's lies built on bullshit and smothered in rhetoric, then filtered through 'X-Factor' popularity filters.
Have we all forgotten Iraq?

 

[Chosen]

BANG and thankyou.

The UN resolution states that only forces actively engaged against civilian targets can be attacked. You resolution arguement falls to peices right there.

The bases that are taken out are airstrips tho. And they are stationing the airplanes who is used against the civilians.

So BANG, right back at ya.

All that is confirmed hit, is anti air bases and a airstrip. So please show me anything that says they are taking out military bases who have nothing to do with this.

 

[cHodAX]

The bases that are taken out are airstrips tho. And they are stationing the airplanes who is used against the civilians.

So BANG, right back at ya.

Nope, barracks have been attacked. Also the U.N. resolution allows us to shoot down attacking planes, not to follow them back to base and destroy infrastructure. The West are now making up the rule of engagement as it goes along, the media won't cover that though because they are too busy pimping out war coverage footage for ratings and awards.

If you cannot see how phoney all this is then I feel very sorry for you, the media have done a masterful job at manipulation.

 

[Helme]

How much money do you think the US made of the iraqi war? Since you probably think they stole all their oil.

The US made nothing in the war, military contractors however made fortunes from US taxpayers by first getting to destroy a country, then being paid to rebuild it. The oil profits haven't really begun showing yet, but I'm sure they'll contribute nicely in the future to some offshore accounts.

To clarify, the US is a country ruled by corporate interests. It has been for quite some time, and it's only getting worse(see Wisconsin).

 

[Chosen]

Nope, barracks have been attacked. Also the U.N. resolution allows us to shoot down attacking planes, not to follow them back to base and destroy infrastructure. The West are now making up the rule of engagement as it goes along, the media won't cover that though because they are too busy pimping out war coverage footage for ratings and awards.

If you cannot see how phoney all this is then I feel very sorry for you, the media have done a masterful job at manipulation.

I dont follow the media at all, I follow the information I get from my own base. You are the one getting your facts from the media.

And give me a link to where it says that they have taken out barracks outside the conflict zone.

And I dont think you understand the FN resolution fully. When they are allowed to use ALL power necessary to stop the slaughtering of a civilian population. That includes tactically bombing infrastructures such as airstrips, who launches the airplanes they use.