Level differences and powerleveling

[old.Zeikerd]

I'll introduce myself. I'm a lvl32 Cabalist. Not very loved in the our realm but noone seems to care. Any way, we can solo quite well, oranges are no problem, but it becomes a drag real fast. So I start looking for a group. I use the tool and it finds me 2 groups of around my level, lets say, one 35 and one 36.
I msg them both and one group isn't looking for any members because of a stupid bug which keeps them listed as looking. And the other says I'm too low.
It's about that too low part. They kill things which are low purple to me, I can hit those, I can hit them quitte well actualy.
So I get send on my way, I search the entire realm and everwhere I get the same stuff.
But at the same time, what do I see? A purple con armsmen and a grey con minstrel or whatever and the minstrel doesn't do anything and the purple con is killing for him blues and greens. What is that all about? Is that that powerleveling I hear about? It seems they would both get super lousy xp doing it that way, they differ more than 10 levels from each other.

So now I'm confused. If I'm 4-5 levels to low for them, how is it that other people are 'powerleveling' other people who differ MUCH more levels and the one being powerleveled doesn't do a thing what so ever.

This is just to write of some frustrations I have.

 

[granny]

OK the way it works is that if you join a group who are several levels higher than you (to the extent that some of the group are purple to you) the only person who suffers an XP penalty is *you*. It is the lowest member of a group who gets their XP reduced, the others aren't affected.

However, saying that, there is a small XP reduction of course since the group now has 8 people instead of 7 (for instance) and the mob's XP is split further. The reason you will get turned down is if the group doesn't think you can make a useful contribution to killing their targets. Also the baf code is now reacting to 8 instead of 7 people which may make the difference between 4 mobs being pulled instead of 3.

As for powerleveling, well, it's very easy, as long as the high level player is killing mobs that are green minimum to them then the low level person can just sit on their arse and get cap XP each time. Doesn't mean it isn't lame though... I say earn your XP

Getting into groups is very hard for some classes, rangers & nightshades have trouble as do some casters (particularly enchanters I find, I know very little about classes from realms other than Hibernia so I can't comment on them). All I can suggest is try making a few friends, join a guild, see if you can find a few people who recognise the contributions you can make.

 

[old.yaruar]

Originally posted by Zeikerd
But at the same time, what do I see? A purple con armsmen and a grey con minstrel or whatever and the minstrel doesn't do anything and the purple con is killing for him blues and greens. What is that all about? Is that that powerleveling I hear about? It seems they would both get super lousy xp doing it that way, they differ more than 10 levels from each other.

Were they guildmates? Were they friends? Did he just want a slight boost in speed because normal running speed sucks big time... ;-)

 

[Tank Init]

the high level guy has to take yellow to him otherwise the low level does not get cap, taking green to the high level will not give the low level cap.

 

[starblade]

In early beta, there were a lot of cabalists complaining about the class once they hit 20+. Maybe that still hangs around when looking for groups.

Personally, I love grouping with our Cabi since I think he is doing absolutely great and it looks like a very versatile class (never played one tho). Its the same with the assassin classes, they have trouble getting into groups too.

As for the pwrlvl thing, I dont mind lower classes at all as long as they join in the fight. I'm low or lowest in my group frequently (but as a pala, that does seems to be ok) and so, in time, I intend to return this favor I got to others by doing the same.
Sitting your lazy butt down however and getting max XP will not get you my eternal appreciation tho

 

[-Wedge-]

Killing greens only works everybody falls within level range, and even then it's not proven to work... :/

As I was playing my Theurgist yesterday, and was grouped with 3 ppl that were 5 levels lower then me, killing a blue to me (orange or even red to them) gave them bad xp... Might work better with only 2 persons...

But if you fall out of the level range (usually 75% or 5 levels) then you need to attack beasties that are a challange to your group... A green to a two player group isn't a challange so both get bad XP... But if you manage to kill an orange(or high yellow) to the highest player, then that would be a challange and both get 'good' XP... (We're probably talking about a 40 leveling a 20, a yellow isn't good XP for a 40 )

Now with this in mind, a lower level can never 'take too much xp', because XP is always split 50/50(or 33/33/33, etc)... A higher level could ruin the group (since he would raize the highest level and raize the 'challange code')...

'Your too low' can still be a valid reason, since an additinal person will lower the overall XP of the group... So the group would have to take on higher beasties, and they might worrie you aren't able to take on these higher beasties (because of your lower lvl)...

A 'common powerlevel' group would exist of 3 ppl around the same level and 1 lower level... Since the XP drop isn't really much (from 33% XP to 25% XP), the extra person isn't really noticed... And wont affect the challange code much either...

 

[old.Zeikerd]

I'm lvl 32 and 35 is still orange to me, which i can solo.
The group in question was lvl36, which is very low red.
They we're chain pulling gobo's in Lyonesse with 6 people, I would have been the 7th.
The reason was that their xp would be less, they didn't care about me. Also note their weren't any other groups there with spots free and i was tired of soloing.

It has happened now. Just wanna ask people to give the lower underplayed classes a chance. If you have a spot free, lend that person that spot. I've done it many times too.

 

[-Wedge-]

Still, no offense or anything but cabalists arent group characters... And yes you can root, and you have a few other features that could be used in a group, but in the end, its not a group character... (I can understand a bit, I've got an Ice theurgist, other then root and a 'medium' Ice spell, I have nothing to offer a group)

As for the group, I can understand why they wouldn't want to have a bigger group, I'm still amazed at the fact that some ppl form an 8 party (house) goblin group at 38+ ... Tanglers, ok, but a normal chain? (XP isn't all that great at 38+ with the exception of Tanglers)

Personally the only time I group with ppl much lower then me (e.g. more then 4/5 levels) is when its a friend or guild mate or I'm in RvR(even in RvR I'd like to keep it 35+)... Somebody that much lower doesn't have much to offer to the group (sorry), with the exception of Clerics...

You cant be mad because they didn't want you in the group if they were doing fine with the current group... You could be mad if you weren't accepted in the group but another class (same level) was accepted after you were refused...

 

[old.Zeikerd]

I'm not mad. But it always makes me grin if I see:
bla bla was killed by a pygmy goblin
bla bla2 was killed by a pygmy goblin
bla bla3 was killed by a pygmy goblin
bla bla4 was killed by a pygmy goblin
If i just was rejected.

 

[old.chipper]

i know how ya feel m8 i got a scout and it sometimes can be a bugger to get a grp but then again i enjoy solo i can take oranges so hit my cap everytime but there are some classes that are hjust not meant to be grp chars cabalist is one im sure all the other realms have the same prob even as my paladin its hard to get a grp (till next patch then we'll be loved at last)

 

[Bootae]

lo Ciclya u got a group in the end though, with another cabalist too

 

[Feldegast]

Exp system is like this. In a group the exp is divided in shares (# of members in the group (duh!)) And exp is calculated from the highest lvl player in the group. Hence killing a green con to you will give the low lvl ur trying to PL the same amount of exp he would get from killing a green solo divided by 2 (if you are grouped)

This is the only good way to power lvl some1.

Get an ordinary group, and a leech group containing lower lvl ppl. Cap every time (for them atleast)

Also works with only 1 person (high lvl) letting a low lvl leech his kills.

But never be grouped for the killing. Easy

 

[Khalen]

Power lvling is what I personally only do to guild m8s. And not just anyone who wants to join and ain't gonna work for it. Cabalist is one of those classes people see as gimped (dunno why, because I've known Ryo in the beta and he kicked ass with an extra tank). All I can say is that there are a lot of people who are greedy about XP. All they wanna do is get as much XP as possible and don't care about the PvE part and the teaming. So when they are 40+ they think they can kick ass in RvR. Well I can tell yah this. You ain't gonna kick ass in RvR on your own. You need friends who can help. And how do you make friends? Right by teaming with other peoples alot and talk with them, know how they think, know how they work in a team, and most of all show respect to people. We are all players and we all wanna have fun in this game

People should say why they don't need another one in the group and don't make pittiful excuses. Like it's a bug or you are too low to kill these etc. Classes aren't gimped, you just gotta figure it out how they work and how to make good use of it.

 

[Subbiz]

Originally posted by granny

As for powerleveling, well, it's very easy, as long as the high level player is killing mobs that are green minimum to them then the low level person can just sit on their arse and get cap XP each time. Doesn't mean it isn't lame though... I say earn your XP

not true if there is a big lvl diff.

if u want an example, I was doing some itemhunt yesterday in spindel, my lvl is 50. I was killing green mobs, and creepy, lvl 26 runemaster, joined me, and he got utterly crap exp

another 1:
I was going to make a buff bot, a shaman, on another acc. at lvl 1 I teamed it with my lvl 50 berserker, went to spindel, killed con blue mobs for my berserker. At lvl 1, u get 1 bub for lvl 0 mobs (blue mobs) if u are solo. It took me 3-4 kills w/ the zerker to get 1 bub for the shaman.. powerlvling can be ok within 10-15 lvls, but nothing beats a good team where the average is around ur lvl, maybe 2-4 lvls higher. that will always be the best exp u are gonna get. maybe not the easiest, but the best..

 

[tilde]

i did some ellylls with my bro Ozaric, he was L43 now 44 and when we fought oranges he got cap. But i've tried grouping with some who are 10-20lvls below and he got crap xp so :/

aslong as its not too big diffirence i think its working alrighty

 

[c0ngo]

I grouped with a lvl 36 scout (green to me) killing mobs that were yellow/orange he capped every kill.

Gr8 xp for him even though he could barely hit them and I was only after items.

 

[old.Zeikerd]

Congo, can we make an appointment?

 

[--Eraser--]

i agree to khalen, pwl lvling to guildmates is ok. of course you might think its lame in a kind of way but especially the first 10 levels are a bit boring i think and its good to have a fellow with you who can at least buff u up a bit
yesterday i ran along with our ministrel, keep buffin him all the time with an earthen fury, he could do reds without downtime, hihi...i only got involved when he went into trouble.

beside such a situation i agree that exps have to be earned by yourself.

 

[c0ngo]

Zeikerd there are still a couple of drops I'm hunting for my alts in the barrows.

If I'm ever doing that and your on then your on your welcome to join me, all I'd ask is that if the things I'm after drop I could have them

 

[-Wedge-]

Congo, get Pfy a bit up more first

He's been on 38 for ages now, and for some reason he's not online much lately... I think you drag him to the pub too much

So drag his ass out of the pub for once to give him some much needed levels

 

[c0ngo]

The last couple of nights he was already in the pub when I got there and he left when it closed.

He's off work sick (hangover) today so he might be playing now I guess.

 

[old.Rawkeer]

Originally posted by granny
OK the way it works is that if you join a group who are several levels higher than you (to the extent that some of the group are purple to you) the only person who suffers an XP penalty is *you*. It is the lowest member of a group who gets their XP reduced, the others aren't affected.

However, saying that, there is a small XP reduction of course since the group now has 8 people instead of 7 (for instance) and the mob's XP is split further. The reason you will get turned down is if the group doesn't think you can make a useful contribution to killing their targets. Also the baf code is now reacting to 8 instead of 7 people which may make the difference between 4 mobs being pulled instead of 3.

As for powerleveling, well, it's very easy, as long as the high level player is killing mobs that are green minimum to them then the low level person can just sit on their arse and get cap XP each time. Doesn't mean it isn't lame though... I say earn your XP

Getting into groups is very hard for some classes, rangers & nightshades have trouble as do some casters (particularly enchanters I find, I know very little about classes from realms other than Hibernia so I can't comment on them). All I can suggest is try making a few friends, join a guild, see if you can find a few people who recognise the contributions you can make.

Your wrong, both the highest player and the lowest player suffer if they are more than 5 levels apart.

You cannot group with anybody higher level than you and jsut recieve your XP cap, if you group with a level 40 or so and ure level 30 ure gonna pick up about 100k XP at the most from something yellow to the level 40 (i know, i've done it).

One way that you can powerlevel is if you are in a group of say all 34-36's and you join tha group and ure level 32, you'd level pretty quick this way.

<Edit> Although this was true, apparently the level cap for the higher levels has increased so you can group with people more than 5 levels effectively now...

 

[-Wedge-]

Well if you want the official note on how Experience (and Group experience) works:

http://www.camelotherald.com/more/110.php

After much testing, tweaking, comparing, and discussion, here's how group experience works in DAOC:

Let me start off by explaining that the "75% range rule" you old-timers remember was accurate at one point during the beta. Then, we found a bug - group bonuses were getting added AFTER people's exp caps were reached, and to a low level player, those bonuses were sometimes equal to more than three times their experience cap. (Don't worry, newcomers, all the terms will be explained below.) Then some aspects of the system were exploited (not really a good word, because no one was doing anything bad, but it was not the way we had intended the system to work). Then we put in some code that made the acceptable range entirely too strict. Since then, we've tweaked the code, relaxed some restrictions, made the formulas a bit more generous, etc. This, below, is how the system works. I am sorry this explanation was so late in coming.

All group experience is divided evenly amongst group members, if they are in the same level range. What's a level range? One color range. If everyone in the group cons yellow to each other (or high blue, or low orange), experience will be shared out exactly evenly, with no leftover points. How can you determine a color range? Simple - Level divided by ten plus one. So, to a level 40 player (40/10 + 1), 36-40 is yellow, 31-35 is blue, 26-30 is green, and 25-less is gray.

But a range like that is awfully narrow. Our 40th level friend will be grouping with more than just yellows, so what happens to the other colors? It's still divided exactly evenly (our highest level friend gets the same share he would have gotten if all his group mates were his level), but lower level group members only keep their experience up to their "experience cap," and the leftover points go away. (That cap, by the way, is defined as yellow + 10%, aka low orange, and applies to everyone - even solo artists.) In DAOC, anyone can group with anyone else and get experience. But for everyone in the group to get the maximum amount of experience possible, the encounter must be a challenge to the group.

But what's a challenge to the group? A good rule of thumb goes like this: If the group has two people, the monster must at least be (con) yellow to the highest level member. If the group has four people, the monster must at least be orange. If the group has eight, the monster must at least be red. There are exceptions (because the higher the level of the players, the wider the level range within a color is), but that's basically how it works. If an encounter is not challenging enough to the group, "challenge code" kicks in.

If "challenge code" has been activated, then the experience is divided roughly like so in a group of two (adjust the colors up if the group is bigger): If the monster was blue to the highest level player, each lower level group member will ROUGHLY receive experience as if they soloed a blue monster. Ditto for green. As everyone knows, a monster that cons gray to the highest level player will result in no exp for anyone. If the monster was high blue, challenge code may not kick in. It could also kick in if the monster is low yellow to the high level player, depending on the group strength of the pair.

It is not possible to say exactly where challenge code kicks in for several reasons. For one, the colors are just a convenient way to talk about monsters; "high blue" and "low blue" will vary from monster to monster. The formula given in the first paragraph only applies to players, although it does approximately work for monsters. For another thing, challenge code isn't an on-off thing - it slowly drops off throughout the range.

Again, everyone will hit their cap or thereabouts as long as the encounter was a challenge to the group.

I will be cruising the various boards all weekend looking at threads on this topic, and clarifying this article as needed on Monday. And you know me - if it seems to not work the way I said it does, I am ALWAYS glad and grateful to get feedback. But bear in mind that this issue has a ton of factors. Complete feedback will have your level, the level of your groupmates, where you were fighting, the monsters you are fighting, what kind of bonuses (camp, BAF, etc) the monsters were giving if any, the relative con to each player, the amount of exp received per player, and as much other information as you feel is relevant. "I fought this monster, I think it was a skeleton, and it was blue and my friend who is 20 levels under me got exp like it was a green" is too vague to help us find a problem, just FYI =)

Y'all have a good weekend.

 

[Flimgoblin]

Ello Ciclya ... damned powerleveller (you were 4 levels below me when I met you in Keltoi I'm sure)

I think the problem is Cabalist - people don't go 'ooh damage dealer' or whatever they go 'ooh that person everyone says is crap in a group'

Cabalists are good solo but my god it's dull.
They're also good in a group. Not because they fulfill one function very well (wizard/cleric/armsman) but because they can do about ten different things.

I think if you're a cabalist you should aim to get a small group together. If I'm solo as a merc and I see a Cabalist solo wanting to group I'm gonna go grab em...
Not because cabalists are less useful in big groups but because they're so useful when you've only got a few players in your group.


Pet to tank (takes the hits before I start on the monster), heals (well life swap, followed by a life drain).
Debuffs! Playing a champ on pryd for a bit has shown me how good they can be.

A cabalist doesn't have the crowd control of a sorcerer, but they still have Root (useful).
A cabalist doesn't have the heals of a cleric but they still have life swap (useful).
A cabalist doesn't have the sheer damage power of a wizard but they have a DOT or a life drain spell (again, useful).
A cabalist can't hit as hard as a tank, but they've got a pet who'll help everyone hit more.

People who say cabalists are no good in groups are living in a daydream.

 

[old.Zeikerd]

I'm not a powerleveler, I just play to much

About me:
Root is nice if you have some ground to cast it. Most of the time you only have one try, and if you start casting it right away as the mob is in range you have 2 chances. But it's usefull in chaining atleast.
Only body cabalists have lifeswap.
Pet can tank in small groups, real funny sometimes
Pet can occupy an add while group flees to safety (also works well while soloing )
If I'm in a large group and we do purples, I can do alot more damage then if we do lots of red mobs.

So in short: chainpulling gobo's is oke as a rooter and add damage dealer. Or taking on purples, as a prim damage dealer.

Also: matter cabs have nice nearsight spell to pull. Longer range then archers even