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mank!
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- #2
Everyone I know who smokes weed started because they were depressed. *shrug*
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Testin da Cable
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hmm. I started because I was curious what my friends were up to.
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throdgrain
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I dont think it should be legalised at all tbh.
I got convicted 3 times for it, now I give up they talk about decriminalisation. Fuck that, I want you lot to suffer too !
I got convicted 3 times for it, now I give up they talk about decriminalisation. Fuck that, I want you lot to suffer too !
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Will
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- #5
Smoking fags cause lung cancer. Excessive drinking causes liver damage. Everything in excess is bad for you.
On top of that, I've been a heavy smoker for 8 years, and I haven't suffered any mental health issues. I'm in the same starting and testing range as that survery.
I think it is more likely that heavy cannabis use would trigger latent problems earlier in life than they might otherwise have developed. I think I've stated my views on drugs before, but I'll throw it in again.
All drugs are controlled. However, you apply to the doctor, who, for a fee, tests you for allergies, adverse reactions, tolerance. You then get a card, like a drivers licence, that entitles you to purchase certain types of drugs from a pharmacy or other approved place. You'd need to get checkups every year or two, and the fee would pay for the tests being run.
It seems to me to be a good compromise between letting people do what they want, and minimising the risks.
On top of that, I've been a heavy smoker for 8 years, and I haven't suffered any mental health issues. I'm in the same starting and testing range as that survery.
I think it is more likely that heavy cannabis use would trigger latent problems earlier in life than they might otherwise have developed. I think I've stated my views on drugs before, but I'll throw it in again.
All drugs are controlled. However, you apply to the doctor, who, for a fee, tests you for allergies, adverse reactions, tolerance. You then get a card, like a drivers licence, that entitles you to purchase certain types of drugs from a pharmacy or other approved place. You'd need to get checkups every year or two, and the fee would pay for the tests being run.
It seems to me to be a good compromise between letting people do what they want, and minimising the risks.
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granny
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That sounds pretty cool Itcheh (sorry, can't help it, it'll wear off eventually...) - only problem I can see is that we know so little about the effects of most drugs because it's nigh on impossible to get funding to research them.
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throdgrain
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I smoked very regularly for about 17 years, yet I manage a company that turns over best part of 2 million a year, have a wife and kids and mortgage, and am not depressive in a ny way.
Only one person I know, but an example?
Only one person I know, but an example?
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Will
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There has been more research than you think, the problem is that very little of it has been impartial, but thats how scientific studies are nowadays. Someone pays for the experiment, so they obviously are looking for a certain result. Repeat business is always good.
The military have done studies into LSD. I've seen a lot of American studies into long term effects of Ecstasy. 20 years ago, there just wasn't enough information, but the hippies are hitting their 60s now, and some of them never stopped. They didn't turn out too bad, did they? *looks at world*
The was also the reasoning behind the regular checkups.
The military have done studies into LSD. I've seen a lot of American studies into long term effects of Ecstasy. 20 years ago, there just wasn't enough information, but the hippies are hitting their 60s now, and some of them never stopped. They didn't turn out too bad, did they? *looks at world*
The was also the reasoning behind the regular checkups.
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granny
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Well yes, the *results of research* are often a very different thing from the *interpretation* of the results
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old.D0LLySh33p
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Originally posted by throdgrain
I dont think it should be legalised at all tbh.
I got convicted 3 times for it, now I give up they talk about decriminalisation. Fuck that, I want you lot to suffer too !
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dysfunction
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- #11
Its amazing how you can get any stats to give you the desired conclusions...
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Will
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And thats why I'm still employed.
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Testin da Cable
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- #14
9 out of 8 people who bought the book think it's a good idea to eat rice crispies!
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dysfunction
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Aah yes that book will be very useful indeed!
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Damini
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On the schitzophrenia part, I'm inclined to agree.
A disturbingly high number of my old group of friends has gone on to develop schitzophrenia, and what made us really hang out together was listening to music and getting stoned. I don't know about research, I can't say anything conclusive, but really honestly its a scarily high amount of people I know, and who were perfectly fine when we started out.
Cooper, who I lived with in a squat, has had to be institutionalised. He has spells in and out of Graylingwell.
My old best mate Suwan has developed schitzophrenia and has to move back in with her parents because she's unable to cope alone anymore.
Graham AND his brother have both developed schitzophrenia. These are people from The Pub Of The Time, where we all used to hang out.
Damon, a mate from school, developed schitzophrenia and ended up homeless, and then also in Graylingwell.
And my an old friend Natalie was murdered by her schitzophrenic boyfriend (he thought she was part of a computer game and was trying to kill him).
Maybe it is statistical fluke, but I don't know anyone from my friends who didn't do drugs who have gone on to deveop schitzophrenia.
And before anyone linches me, I'm not trying to pedestal it, not being all high and mighty, but I'm just saying it from what's happened to people I know. I never associated it with pot before, but having read this latest research I have to say it doesn't surprise me at all.
A disturbingly high number of my old group of friends has gone on to develop schitzophrenia, and what made us really hang out together was listening to music and getting stoned. I don't know about research, I can't say anything conclusive, but really honestly its a scarily high amount of people I know, and who were perfectly fine when we started out.
Cooper, who I lived with in a squat, has had to be institutionalised. He has spells in and out of Graylingwell.
My old best mate Suwan has developed schitzophrenia and has to move back in with her parents because she's unable to cope alone anymore.
Graham AND his brother have both developed schitzophrenia. These are people from The Pub Of The Time, where we all used to hang out.
Damon, a mate from school, developed schitzophrenia and ended up homeless, and then also in Graylingwell.
And my an old friend Natalie was murdered by her schitzophrenic boyfriend (he thought she was part of a computer game and was trying to kill him).
Maybe it is statistical fluke, but I don't know anyone from my friends who didn't do drugs who have gone on to deveop schitzophrenia.
And before anyone linches me, I'm not trying to pedestal it, not being all high and mighty, but I'm just saying it from what's happened to people I know. I never associated it with pot before, but having read this latest research I have to say it doesn't surprise me at all.
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throdgrain
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All of my friends smoked dope, many still do, and none have ever had any bouts of any mental illness whatsoever.
The only problem with prolonged smoking imo is the tendancy it causes to make people take them selves far too seriously and talk like Kieth Richards ...
The only problem with prolonged smoking imo is the tendancy it causes to make people take them selves far too seriously and talk like Kieth Richards ...
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Will
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The thing that would make the research useful is if they could say why.
Is dope causing the depression/schizophrenia, is it triggering it in already vunerable people, or do drugs attract people who have mental problems already?
More work is needed before they could say.
I do understand where you are coming from. I'm more inclined to blame dope causing laziness, which leads on to your life going nowhere, which then causes depression/schizophrenia. But then, look at Throd and myself, holding down steady jobs, doing well for ourselves. Its the people rather than the drug that is the variable.
*scratches head* I don't know if I was trying to type questions or answers. Complicated subject.
Is dope causing the depression/schizophrenia, is it triggering it in already vunerable people, or do drugs attract people who have mental problems already?
More work is needed before they could say.
I do understand where you are coming from. I'm more inclined to blame dope causing laziness, which leads on to your life going nowhere, which then causes depression/schizophrenia. But then, look at Throd and myself, holding down steady jobs, doing well for ourselves. Its the people rather than the drug that is the variable.
*scratches head* I don't know if I was trying to type questions or answers. Complicated subject.
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legendario
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Pfft...I don't need drugs.
I'm a depressed lunatic without them.
... on a serious note...
I have witnessed similar effects to Damini.A lot of the guys I went to school are either Depressed, in a world of their own or Schiz now.
I'm a depressed lunatic without them.
... on a serious note...
I have witnessed similar effects to Damini.A lot of the guys I went to school are either Depressed, in a world of their own or Schiz now.
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granny
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The thing to be careful of Lou is confusing cause and effect... which is a minefield the research has to tread extremely delicately and carefully.
It seems like you've known a lot of people who've gone on to develop (or manifest) psychiatric problems. You also all used to spend a lot of time getting stoned. OK so does that imply that getting stoned too much contributed to their mental problems? Or did they already have latent mental problems which contributed to them smoking a lot of dope? Or did being your friend send them off the deep end? Or was there something in the water in the area you all lived in? See what I mean? Causality is actually (from a philosophical point of view anyway) impossible to prove - all you can do is fail to disprove something and this becomes a 1000 times more difficult to navigate when you're dealing with human beings in the most uncontrolled of all uncontrollable things (life).
It seems like you've known a lot of people who've gone on to develop (or manifest) psychiatric problems. You also all used to spend a lot of time getting stoned. OK so does that imply that getting stoned too much contributed to their mental problems? Or did they already have latent mental problems which contributed to them smoking a lot of dope? Or did being your friend send them off the deep end? Or was there something in the water in the area you all lived in? See what I mean? Causality is actually (from a philosophical point of view anyway) impossible to prove - all you can do is fail to disprove something and this becomes a 1000 times more difficult to navigate when you're dealing with human beings in the most uncontrolled of all uncontrollable things (life).
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throdgrain
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^ In a nutshell ^
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Will
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Another thing I'm always careful about when I see these figures is...how many took acid?
I know that has a far greater chance of causing mental health problems.
I know that has a far greater chance of causing mental health problems.
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granny
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The scientist in me quails at your casual use of the word "cause"
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throdgrain
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Oh fucking hell yes. Dont even start me off on that ....
Its rather like people who say, Oh yes i tried dope but it made me sick.
"Oh yes , whys that then?"
It just does, every time i did it I puked up no end.
"Oh, when did you do it ?"
After 6 or 7 pints down the pub ....
Its rather like people who say, Oh yes i tried dope but it made me sick.
"Oh yes , whys that then?"
It just does, every time i did it I puked up no end.
"Oh, when did you do it ?"
After 6 or 7 pints down the pub ....
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Will
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Yeah, I know. But the phrase "or possibly causes, or maybe triggers latent mental health problems" just didn't seem as catchy.Originally posted by granny
The scientist in me quails at your casual use of the word "cause"
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dysfunction
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Well...yes...if the people who supply the drug do not mix other substances in with it...
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Will
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Dunno about anyone else, but when it comes to smoking, I can tell if its been cut, and normally what with.
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Testin da Cable
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hairspray
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Will
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Normally henna. Funny smell I can't describe, and it makes your head spin when you smoke too much.
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xane
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I was under the impression this was reporting the results of just such a study into the connection.
Personally I suspected such a connection existed, be it a vague one, I know of at least three people who committed suicide as a result of depression and all were _heavy_ cannabis users, saying that I still suspect there is more of a third factor that links both people liable to develop depression and people liable to succumb to heavy use of any drug.
Swedish (and Australian) "scientists" are notorious for missing the "common factor", they always seem more inclined to the "shock" effect of reports than the true scientific and logical reasons.
I am not against cannabis use, especially for private recreational means, but I'd like to see better laws on the public use of drugs (any of them) before I'd agree to legalisation, as well as some serious research into its long-term effects, I don't think the government is doing enough towards this.
Saying that, I actually suspect the recent proposals to reform the licensing laws is the first stage in accepting cannabis and other recreational drug use besides alcohol and tobacco.
Damini: please note the other common factor for all these people is they were associated with you, better ask Kenny what he (or rather "they") think
Personally I suspected such a connection existed, be it a vague one, I know of at least three people who committed suicide as a result of depression and all were _heavy_ cannabis users, saying that I still suspect there is more of a third factor that links both people liable to develop depression and people liable to succumb to heavy use of any drug.
Swedish (and Australian) "scientists" are notorious for missing the "common factor", they always seem more inclined to the "shock" effect of reports than the true scientific and logical reasons.
I am not against cannabis use, especially for private recreational means, but I'd like to see better laws on the public use of drugs (any of them) before I'd agree to legalisation, as well as some serious research into its long-term effects, I don't think the government is doing enough towards this.
Saying that, I actually suspect the recent proposals to reform the licensing laws is the first stage in accepting cannabis and other recreational drug use besides alcohol and tobacco.
Damini: please note the other common factor for all these people is they were associated with you, better ask Kenny what he (or rather "they") think