Lag

[Ethild]

Whats with the constant lag spikes every minute?

I'm getting quite tired of moving along, only to get 2 red squares and then instantly appearing dead when it passes. Or perhaps having a nice fight, only to lock up with 2 red squares of lag. Dropping off a boat in the middle of the North Sea zone is hardly a fun experience either, all due to these rather frequent 'spikes' of latency.

I don't see GOA can seriously be setting up new Italian servers, when they can not run the current ones to an acceptable level of service.

 

[Dances With NOobs]

no more porn

Heh and I thought it was my porn downloading, but nope its time GOA pulled there finger out...
I dont care whos causing it, its preventing my game pleasure to the point that im gonna quit. If that doesnt make it GOA's problem then I dont see what will.

 

[xxManiacxx]

use pingplotter then Right Now it. they will never know of the problem if ppl dont do that.

 

[scorge]

use pingplotter then Right Now it. they will never know of the problem if ppl dont do that.

Plotted it but gets a bit tedious to rightnow it for the 7th time


yep an getting terrible lag every 5 mins, making it unplayable. so am going to play something else till its a bit better

 

[IainC]

If you're getting a regular pattern of LDs or lag spikes (every x number of minutes for instance), then it's likely to be network drivers or settings. Try updating them or if you have a 3com gigabit NIC, disable the 'hardware checksumming' option.

Not all the causes of lag or LDs are in ours or OTs network.

 

[Wert]

Last comment is bull, i keep my computer and drivers well updated as do most.
I am running on a 1.5mb cable internet connection and in no other online circumstances (my dad playing ff11 and bro playing eq2) do they get lag while using the same settings. I have had regular lag spikes all day of 10-20 minute intervals at good moments, im sick of it and want to see something done about it.
You can't blame the customer for a problem on the providers side!

 

[Ethild]

Thanks for the response, but im pretty sure it's OTs problem.

That or about half of the other users I speak to on IRC also can't cant configure their machines.

Im ranting because its particularly bad today. Bordering on unplayable (for a soloer like me anyway).

 

[Indio]

Its been the same for me all evening, so too for many guildmates, I finally gave up and logged off.

 

[Takhasis]

Been pretty bad tonite, but recording ping plotter for about an hour, the faults are split between open transit (london) and BT Broadband themselves - BT connection has been real sucky tonite.

 

[Daedalus]

Last comment is bull, i keep my computer and drivers well updated as do most.
I am running on a 1.5mb cable internet connection and in no other online circumstances (my dad playing ff11 and bro playing eq2) do they get lag while using the same settings. I have had regular lag spikes all day of 10-20 minute intervals at good moments, im sick of it and want to see something done about it.
You can't blame the customer for a problem on the providers side!

Got some proof? Like.. a pingplot?

 

[Oboy]

If you're getting a regular pattern of LDs or lag spikes (every x number of minutes for instance), then it's likely to be network drivers or settings. Try updating them or if you have a 3com gigabit NIC, disable the 'hardware checksumming' option.

Not all the causes of lag or LDs are in ours or OTs network.

like Wert said, this is bull and a quite large one to. Everytime its getting laggy i ask the others in the group if they lagged to and the latest time all in the group also had lagg. Like its possible for 8 ppl in different countries to have bad connections/configure. Its no wonder so much ppl leaving for WOW when goa personal treating their customers in lack of contempt and disrespect. GM´s behaving like gods just bcs they can make a lvl100 char make me uke:
Come on and grow up, its we paying your wages and it wont last much longer with that attitude.

 

[Xalin]

Or you could see that Requiel was trying to be helpfull.

We get loads of questions from people about lag and then it's solved after doing the things Requiel said. Just because it might not work for you does not make something a 'bull comment'

Talk about attitude why don't you?

 

[echekiel]

Whats with the constant lag spikes every minute?

I'm getting quite tired of moving along, only to get 2 red squares and then instantly appearing dead when it passes. Or perhaps having a nice fight, only to lock up with 2 red squares of lag. Dropping off a boat in the middle of the North Sea zone is hardly a fun experience either, all due to these rather frequent 'spikes' of latency.

I don't see GOA can seriously be setting up new Italian servers, when they can not run the current ones to an acceptable level of service.

dont complain they doesnt matter about this

 

[IainC]

like Wert said, this is bull and a quite large one to. Everytime its getting laggy i ask the others in the group if they lagged to and the latest time all in the group also had lagg. Like its possible for 8 ppl in different countries to have bad connections/configure. Its no wonder so much ppl leaving for WOW when goa personal treating their customers in lack of contempt and disrespect. GM´s behaving like gods just bcs they can make a lvl100 char make me uke:
Come on and grow up, its we paying your wages and it wont last much longer with that attitude.

It wasn't bull. It is a common problem - particularly with the 3com gigabit network cards. I've had many reports where someone had unplayable lag on one server but a perfectly fine connection on another or where they went LD after a set amount of time and in every case this advice worked.
If you knew how the internet worked, you'd understand how it is possible for peopel in 8 different companies to experience the same latency. This is why Erivoss has asked for pingplots in his sticky post so that the issue can be dealt with. I've said it before hundreds of times and I'll repeat it again here:
The Lag is not in our network. The lag originates from Opentransit who run the French internet backbone. To get it sorted out, we need to provide them with evidence showing the latency in their hubs, we need to provide them with the times, dates and addresses of the hubs that are causing the problem. This is the information that Erivoss has asked for and until people send it in we can do nothing more. There is nothing we can do directly to resolve this issue other than this.

Being able to make a level 100 character has nothing whatsoever to do with the situation and I'm not entirely sure why you brought it up. I certainly don't think I'm a better person than anyone else because I have access to a suite of GM tools.

 

[Oboy]

Or you could see that Requiel was trying to be helpfull.

We get loads of questions from people about lag and then it's solved after doing the things Requiel said. Just because it might not work for you does not make something a 'bull comment'

Talk about attitude why don't you?

i dont have to be nice.
You on the other hand drives a buisness where u try to get customers to subscribe to a service. Have u tried to sell something to a person with saying he has an attitude even if he has? same rules applies online as in rl but some goa staff seems not to understood that. Sometimes you have to swallow the pride and its your jobb to do this not saying its "not our fault" or call the customers childish. Seems like some ppl need to get out some in irl and se how business really works.

 

[Wert]

I have an attitude cuz im sick of all the lag, i know how to configure my computer even if some people don't.
I am your customer and therefore the old rule "the customer is always right" springs to mind. By saying that it has nothing to do with you or OT (thats a quote btw) in some circumstances may be right, but the entirity of a realm COMPLAINING of lag CONSTANLY for SEVERAL hours is nothing to do with us nor our settings, it is you and OT. If you do not have a reliable comunication with OT and are completely unable to feel the lag that we feel you don't have to make out we are wrong. As it stands we are right, and you need to fix the problem, get off your asses, play in the situations we play. Go onto a home computer, play a lvl 50 (not 100) go into RvR (or in a lot of cases just logging on) and feel the lag that we feel.
I am your customer for over a year, and only recently has this begun to happen, with the introduction of NF. I don't know what else to say apart from sort it out sooner.
Your thread about pingplotter or whatever the hell they are was made 8 days ago - 8 days!!! You had 50 replies with almost 2000 views. If you don't have the information already then you better start doing it yourself. I can't believe that of 2000 possible people you wouldn't have the info tbh.
Chatgroups have been made to discuss the issue of lag ingame, people are leaving the game due to continuous lag problems, the majority want something done.
I don't pay you £16 for my 2 accounts so that you can run a crap server. DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT! And i don't care if it's your server or not, it's still YOUR responsibility to do something!

 

[scorge]

i know its frustrating, but there is no need to have a go at the GM's personally.

I understand that is in opentransits problem, its just tonight it has been worse than normal for me it was nearly constant lag

But could you give us an update on what opentransit are doing about it, it has been nearly a month now i think.

I know erivoss has said that if we dont send in ping plots the lag is never ever going to go away, but if the lag continues the only thing you will see go away is your customer base.

when i contacted Opentransit about it myself a while ago, they said they were unaware of any issues and because i was not a customer didn't see very interested.

 

[Oboy]

I've said it before hundreds of times and I'll repeat it again here:
The Lag is not in our network. The lag originates from Opentransit who run the French internet backbone. To get it sorted out, we need to provide them with evidence showing the latency in their hubs, we need to provide them with the times, dates and addresses of the hubs that are causing the problem. This is the information that Erivoss has asked for and until people send it in we can do nothing more. There is nothing we can do directly to resolve this issue other than this.

an exampel.
i go buy a car with free inbuilt service and repairs.The car goes smoth but one day it begin to stop now and then.
I go back to the car seller and tells him my car stops now and then and he answer: hmm its not my fault its the guys made the engine so go home and buy a videocam and record yourself driving the car when u get this problem or the problem will NEVER EVER EVER go away.
Even if the videocam is for free it dosnt seem like a good deal to me.

Does this sound familiar??

 

[Daedalus]

an exampel.
i go buy a car with free inbuilt service and repairs.The car goes smoth but one day it begin to stop now and then.
I go back to the car seller and tells him my car stops now and then and he answer: hmm its not my fault its the guys made the engine so go home and buy a videocam and record yourself driving the car when u get this problem or the problem will NEVER EVER EVER go away.
Even if the videocam is for free it dosnt seem like a good deal to me.

Does this sound familiar??

Christ. When will people stop with their retarded flawed analogies?
So, in your eternal wisdom, how do you propose that this problem should be fixed?

Most of the time people are confusing a low FRAMERATE with LAG. I mean, christ.. How do we even know that YOU are not confusing a low FPS rate with network latency?

Oh.. I know.. You could show us a pingplot that shows that the opentransit routers are fucking up! Until then, I'm not taking you guys seriously. I suggest that any other sane persons do the same. Go whine somewhere else, or even better, go play some off-line game, no lag!

 

[Wert]

My lag is NOT FPS! i have 1gb of ram a brand new gfx card and a 2.6gb amd athlon processor. We whine because we want something done about the problem, we won't stop whining until the problem is sorted.
If your goods were faulty daedalus would you just use it and not pay any attention? or would you use it to the point where you can't stand the fault anymore and complain? or would you complain in the first place?
Don't treat people like idiots, i know what the difference between low fps and network probs. 2 RED NETWORK LAG BOXES (as everyone has been saying ffs) is what the problem is.
i expect a good quality product from a company that is supposed to take pride in its products. A company that doesn't take pride in it's priducts should stop selling that product cuz its gonna lead to problems for them sooner or later.

 

[Oboy]

Christ. When will people stop with their retarded flawed analogies?
So, in your eternal wisdom, how do you propose that this problem should be fixed?

Most of the time people are confusing a low FRAMERATE with LAG. I mean, christ.. How do we even know that YOU are not confusing a low FPS rate with network latency?

Oh.. I know.. You could show us a pingplot that shows that the opentransit routers are fucking up! Until then, I'm not taking you guys seriously. I suggest that any other sane persons do the same. Go whine somewhere else, or even better, go play some off-line game, no lag!

if i pay for something and im not satisfied or something is wrong i complain and i except to be nicely meet. This applies to everything: When i order food on a restaurant, buy a car, subscribing for a online game.
I dont whine or flame i do whats my right to do.
The one not complaining is the retarded one.

 

[Awarkle]

You will find that there is somthing wrong between the UK and FRENCH backbones somthing between london and paris is failing the only way GOA and in some respect open transit will find the faults is to use pingplotter. Yes its anoying yes we shouldnt really be doing this.

But unless goa can get hold of the information they cant do anything and have to respond with the update your drivers its just a fact of business.

You cant spend money helping someone repair their computer if your not in the business of repair i learned that. Software is always a total pain in the arse and In the end GOA are not responsible for our computers or internet connections they are responsible for hosting the game we play.

If there is a problem on the network somewhere they cant be responsible for repairing it they are a games hosting company not a network diagnositcis company. IF you want to complain complain to your ISP's maybe they might have the might to stick on open transit to get things sorted.

Or they might be not aware there is a problem if noone is complaining although since i started playing on the US servers i get 0 lag at all

 

[IainC]

an exampel.
i go buy a car with free inbuilt service and repairs.The car goes smoth but one day it begin to stop now and then.
I go back to the car seller and tells him my car stops now and then and he answer: hmm its not my fault its the guys made the engine so go home and buy a videocam and record yourself driving the car when u get this problem or the problem will NEVER EVER EVER go away.
Even if the videocam is for free it dosnt seem like a good deal to me.

Does this sound familiar??

It doesn't work.
The actual situation in your analogy is this:
You buy a car with free inbuilt service and repairs. The car runs smoothly but the roads you drive on are bumpy and as a result the ride of the car isn't as smooth as you'd like. You take it back to the dealer and the dealer says, we can't do anything about the state of the road. Perhaps if you tell us where the roads are bumpy, we can get the highways department to fix it. In the meantime have you tried firming up the suspension and inflating the tyres a little more?

That is a closer analogy than the one you posted.
Our servers and network run fine. That is the only equipment we can fix directly as they're the only part of the chain we actually own and maintain. We don't own or maintain OT's hubs and switches. I play this game (from home - with a normal level 50 character) and I get 0 lag because my ISP doesn't route me through OT's kit as I'm in Paris and not connecting via the international hubs. This is why we can't see where it's coming from ourselves and also how we know the lag is outside our network.

 

[Wert]

Excuses tbh, contact OT and get them to do something about it, it is still partly your responsibility, you are still providing a service as much as they are

 

[Oboy]

It doesn't work.
The actual situation in your analogy is this:
You buy a car with free inbuilt service and repairs. The car runs smoothly but the roads you drive on are bumpy and as a result the ride of the car isn't as smooth as you'd like. You take it back to the dealer and the dealer says, we can't do anything about the state of the road. Perhaps if you tell us where the roads are bumpy, we can get the highways department to fix it. In the meantime have you tried firming up the suspension and inflating the tyres a little more?

Its more like im paying a buss ticket to paris and halfway there on some shity french highway theres loads of angry trucker strikers blocking the road and the buss cant continue, i still wont my money back from the buss driver or getting help to reach paris. Its still in your intrest to have the customers reaching your service. Maybe next time you shouldnt put ur servers in a nic-country who cant maintain a stable backbone or atleast complain on higher levels, u paying for the bandwith dont u and its ur right to complain to.

 

[Naetha]

At the end of the day Wert and Oboy, whining at the GOA GMs is gonna do sweet FA to get your lag fixed. Everything is in process - the pingplots are coming in thick and fast I'd imagine, then these will go to OT and they will deal with it. Whining at these guys will just piss everybody off, and make them less inclined to want to help you.

I think the GOA GMs are doing a fine job, both of keeping us informed (and they are, no matter how people whine) and in "pacifying" whiners like yourself.

If the lag is too bad to play, then don't play for an evening or so - watch a film, or go to the pub with your friends - do something constructive!

 

[Daedalus]

My lag is NOT FPS! i have 1gb of ram a brand new gfx card and a 2.6gb amd athlon processor.

Good for you. Yet, you're not telling me ANYTHING that shows that the lag is even GoA's fault. A pingplot does exactly that.

We whine because we want something done about the problem, we won't stop whining until the problem is sorted.

There is indeed a problem, but if it's network latency is yet to be determined. Heck, we may even end up blaming the 'modern' x86 architecture. Or the way the internet works.

Don't treat people like idiots, i know what the difference between low fps and network probs. 2 RED NETWORK LAG BOXES (as everyone has been saying ffs) is what the problem is.
i expect a good quality product from a company that is supposed to take pride in its products. A company that doesn't take pride in it's priducts should stop selling that product cuz its gonna lead to problems for them sooner or later.

I treat people like idiots when they're acting like idiots. Period.
Right now, I do see a lot of people acting like idiots. They're not being reasonable and they do not wish to listen to the people who are trying to help them. Instead they're making it even harder for them to fix the problem.

Anyway, let me try to explain a few things. In order to do so we'd best take my computer as an example when it comes to statistics;

Right now, Windows XP uses about 250 MB of memory. DAoC loads up about 750 MB of memory on startup. With Windows's standard memory management configuration, the physical memory usage and virtual memory usage is divided about 50%/50%; balanced. When standing in front of Castle Sauvage, DAoC uses 497 MB of physical memory, and 483 MB of Virtual Memory. Still with me?

Both DAoC's and Windows memory management systems are rather complexe, so I won't go into details on it. If you wish to know more, ask Google.

When you run around in the frontiers, you're constantly viewing new textures and hearing new sounds. When you enter a new zone, its textures are loaded from disk and comitted to memory. If you're using ToA's cache feature then the texture has already been loaded to memory. However, part of it is in Windows Virtual Memory (Swap memory), which resides in the swap file on your primary disk.

DAoC's performance meters run on the same software layer as the game; the application layer. Every few secs the servers sends a packet to every client saying "HI! Are you still there?", and the clients reply with an acknoweldgement. The 'P' meter checks the time between the request and the response, if that's ok, it shows as green. If it's taking long, but not too long, it shows as orange, not having heard something from the server for a while shows as red. 'L' is practically the same, and 'F' is FramesPerSeconds which checks the framerate. If it drops below 15 it shows as orange, 10 as red, etc.

Now, lets look at a worst case scenario thinger;
Imagine that you run into 1FG of mids and 1 FG of hibs and 1FG of albs at the same time, all equipped with their unique weapons and such, fighting. Their skins and sounds have to be loaded from memory (wether it's physical, virtual or from the physical disk into either the physical memory or virtual memory). Since disk access has a higher priority, the game can become unresponsive. It can't acknowledge the ping request from the server anymore when that happends, thus showing a red P/L icon, and possibly an LD. When you're entering the battlefields with others (or, if you're all on the battlefield when a 4rd group enters the field), all clients will go through this process, and some of them will 'lag' more than others, thus when asking if other people had that lag too, a lot of them will say 'yes' because they experienced this process too.

You can verify this by starting DAoC in windowed mode and dragging the window around for 10 seconds. Your P & L icons will show up red, and if you drag it around longer you'll end up linkdead. Imagine 10 players doing this at the same time, if you asked them if their meters all showed 'lag', they'd be inclined to say yes. Get what I mean?

Now what I described above was the worst case scenario. You're not lagging in the way that the data being send by the server/client gets lost or delayed during transport, but rather that the client is receiving/sending the data too late because of the system stress. This is the case when for example someone is standing on the battlements while some caster is nuking that person.. he's down to 30% and thinks that he managed to get inside the tower JUST before dying, and still die. This is because on the player's client, he managed to get inside the keep. Having a lot of physical system stress, the client was not able to update the playerposition in time, thus the server 'saw' that the player was still standing outside getting nuked.

Exactly this is why so many players are confusing system stress( and/or a low framerate) with network latency, because they're relying on DAOC's performance meter. But that's only a half-truth. If they want to complain that GoA's/OpenTransit's network is crap, then they have to proof that it's crap. And you do that with pingplots or multiple traceroutes over an extended period of time.

 

[Wert]

I didn't play tonight, cuz of the lag, thats why im moaning. But as i came onto FH i saw a lot of people waying they are gonna move to another game due to current lag issues amongst other things. These should encourage the GM's to do something else they are gonna lose a job!

 

[Daedalus]

I didn't play tonight, cuz of the lag, thats why im moaning. But as i came onto FH i saw a lot of people waying they are gonna move to another game due to current lag issues amongst other things. These should encourage the GM's to do something else they are gonna lose a job!

Did you actually read what I had to say?

Actually, why do I even bother?

Requiel, m8, I know that you have a magic wand.. could you please use it to make the lag go away?

Thank you.

 

[Wert]

Read the times posted, duh, yours at 11:26, mine at 11:27, we posted at almost the same time therefore i wouldnt even have time to read your long response + think of a suitable reply. Who's acting like the idiot now.