Lag Spikes and LD's

[Awarkle]

I know the peeps at goa have already said its not at their end well there is somthing going on between the players computers and the game servers that is directly effecting the level of gameplay for those players.


this is a trace ive run this morning when the lag started .

4 16 ms 18 ms 17 ms core1-pos6-0.sheffield.ukcore.bt.net [217.32.171.161]

5 20 ms 19 ms 18 ms core1-pos5-0.manchester.ukcore.bt.net [194.74.16.197]

6 24 ms 24 ms 24 ms core1-pos15-2.bletchley.ukcore.bt.net [194.74.16.230]

7 24 ms 27 ms 26 ms core1-pos5-3.ilford.ukcore.bt.net [195.99.120.213]

8 23 ms 23 ms 24 ms transit2-pos5-0.ilford.ukcore.bt.net [194.72.20.154]

9 24 ms 24 ms 24 ms t2c2-p1-0.uk-ilf.eu.bt.net [166.49.168.101]

10 24 ms 24 ms 25 ms t2c1-p8-0.uk-lon1.eu.bt.net [166.49.208.2]

11 26 ms 26 ms 25 ms t2a4-ge0-0.uk-lon1.eu.bt.net [166.49.135.98]

12 26 ms 26 ms 25 ms 166-49-211-130.eu.bt.net [166.49.211.130]

13 25 ms 27 ms 25 ms So7-2-0.LONCR1.London.opentransit.net [193.251.240.9]

14 35 ms 36 ms 38 ms P1-0.PASCR3.Pastourelle.opentransit.net [193.251.128.222]

15 * 34 ms 35 ms P9-0.PASCR1.Pastourelle.opentransit.net [193.251.129.61]

16 35 ms 35 ms 35 ms WanadooPortails.GW.opentransit.net [193.251.251.54]

17 38 ms 36 ms 36 ms 193.252.122.14

18 46 ms 37 ms 37 ms 193.252.123.177

well thats my trace from derbyshire

 

[xxManiacxx]

I think its time for GOA to change ISP that handles their servers...

 

[Case]

I can`t even play this morning constant LD`s playing guild wars instead unless GOA sort their shit out they`ll lose lots of customers.

The problem is obviously a router on the openstransit core network /em wonders why they don`t just sort the damn thing out

 

[Teh FnoRd]

I think its time for GOA to change ISP that handles their servers...

I don't think that is so easy, as GoA and Opentransit (GoAs provider) is owned by the same company.

 

[Edaemos]

Would be nice to get a response from goa telling us if they intend on fixing this or not.

Can't do anything worthwhile in game with these kinda lag spikes, rvr and lag will kill you, pve and lag will kill you.

 

[Zenythe]

Hi Guys...

What we need you to do as opposed to whinge about it here on the forums is to send us your ping plots via RightNow... we can't go to OT with hearsay we need proof coming from all ends of the issue. We have had scads of you complaining about it here however we have only received two pingplots to turn over to the powers that be.

We KNOW it's annoying, believe me we aren't doing cartwheels about it here on our end either!

 

[Edaemos]

Sending ping plots now

 

[Justicator]

Working as intended m8s.

 

[erialor]

Same here 3 times LD within 2½hours of playing...

 

[Ttillub]

Hi Guys...

What we need you to do as opposed to whinge about it here on the forums is to send us your ping plots via RightNow... we can't go to OT with hearsay we need proof coming from all ends of the issue. We have had scads of you complaining about it here however we have only received two pingplots to turn over to the powers that be.

We KNOW it's annoying, believe me we aren't doing cartwheels about it here on our end either!

Put this in your news (not all read FH) and make a post in here also requesting those pingplots.
All GM's play in northern France? I mean, if not, they should be able to produce the plots also.

 

[erialor]

Ahh - not seen you wanted the Pingplot's RightNow'ed - thought we were supposed to send them to OT who in turn wouldn't speak to us...

RightNowing my PingPlottings....

 

[Awarkle]

what format would you like them submitting as ?

and would you prefer

traces or pings ? or both. just clarifying ill pass this on to people on hibernia prydwen on prydwen.net

 

[oblimov]

Zen,

Surely you guys can see the problem clearly yourselves>?!?! ie you can see how many people go LD and stats like that?

Can you not produce something that states this and present it to OT?

 

[Darzil]

What is the way these are failing ? And any suggestions of what things to run ?

I've been running pingplotter with one attempt every five seconds throughout my sessions, and then stopping to look at what was happening whilst I had bad lag. What seemed pretty clear was that whilst bad network performance sometimes caused lag, it often didn't. Packets being entirely lost were pretty rare. The highest ping times I've seen have been in the 500 ms range, but 5-8 second pauses in action due to lag are pretty common.

I'll get some packets to some routers hitting 2-300+ every minute or so, but only get the 5-8 second pauses at a far smaller rate.

Darzil

 

[Zenythe]

Please use something like http://www.pingplotter.com/downloads/pngplt_2.exe

and attach it as a file in the RightNow...

Someone up there asked if all GM's play from Northern France... we all work and live in Paris and we don't have to go through the routing that seems to be at issue so no we can't recreate the problem ourselves.

 

[Daedalus]

I'm having a fine connection atm.
And judging from the traceroute, so has the topic starter:

[4] 16 ms 18 ms 17 ms core1-pos6-0.sheffield.ukcore.bt.net [217.32.171.161]
[5] 20 ms 19 ms 18 ms core1-pos5-0.manchester.ukcore.bt.net [194.74.16.197]
[6] 24 ms 24 ms 24 ms core1-pos15-2.bletchley.ukcore.bt.net [194.74.16.230]
[7] 24 ms 27 ms 26 ms core1-pos5-3.ilford.ukcore.bt.net [195.99.120.213]
[8] 23 ms 23 ms 24 ms transit2-pos5-0.ilford.ukcore.bt.net [194.72.20.154]
[9] 24 ms 24 ms 24 ms t2c2-p1-0.uk-ilf.eu.bt.net [166.49.168.101]
[10] 24 ms 24 ms 25 ms t2c1-p8-0.uk-lon1.eu.bt.net [166.49.208.2]
[11] 26 ms 26 ms 25 ms t2a4-ge0-0.uk-lon1.eu.bt.net [166.49.135.98]
[12] 26 ms 26 ms 25 ms 166-49-211-130.eu.bt.net [166.49.211.130]
[13] 25 ms 27 ms 25 ms So7-2-0.LONCR1.London.opentransit.net [193.251.240.9]
[14] 35 ms 36 ms 38 ms P1-0.PASCR3.Pastourelle.opentransit.net [193.251.128.222]
[15] * 34 ms 35 ms P9-0.PASCR1.Pastourelle.opentransit.net [193.251.129.61]
[16] 35 ms 35 ms 35 ms WanadooPortails.GW.opentransit.net [193.251.251.54]
[17] 38 ms 36 ms 36 ms 193.252.122.14
[18] 46 ms 37 ms 37 ms 193.252.123.177

It seems like the average is around 30, there was one time out but the other two times it just did fine. That shouldn't cause any problem.

What I'd like to know, is if anything has changed to the configuration of Prydwen and/or Excal? And what exactly. I know that there were hardware upgrades, but.. y'know, what exactly did they do to which machines in the cluster?

Anyway, the reason why a traceroute using the dos traceroute command is useless, is because we're talking about lagspikes here, not about the availability of the server. And that's why the GMs ask you to send a pingplotter result, because PingPlotter checks over a longer period of time, and should catch any lag spikes caused by any of the routers.

Look, this is my ping plot:

 

[Darzil]

Aye, I'm using pingplotter.

But any particular frequency of ping we should be using, and is there a way of getting that to correspond with a log of lag in DAoC ? I'm finding longer times from particular parts of opentransit occasionally, but usually they don't correspond with the lag in DAoC.

Darzil

 

[Boni]

Please use something like http://www.pingplotter.com/downloads/pngplt_2.exe

and attach it as a file in the RightNow...

Someone up there asked if all GM's play from Northern France... we all work and live in Paris and we don't have to go through the routing that seems to be at issue so no we can't recreate the problem ourselves.

How about checking your game out yourselves?

Most companies when faced with hundreds of people experiencing problems on a daily basis would get to the bottom of it fast themselves. You should have testers / quality assurance staff whos job this should be (perhaps YOU)?

The fact that you live in france should not be a problem, but your far to lazy to look at any options like setting up one client in the UK and monitoring that yourself 24/7, or Oblis suggestion of just looking at the stats for people LDing.

 

[Darzil]

Any chance of mentioning it in the news, so it's clear that it's still known as a problem, and asking people to send in pingplots there too ?

Cheers,
Chris

 

[scorge]

I take it the german and french players are complaining about lag too? i haven't read the german/french forums yet..

 

[Job]

Yup LD's 3 x today, haven't LD'd for over six months previous.

 

[[GOA]Erivoss]

The fact that you live in france should not be a problem, but your far to lazy to look at any options like setting up one client in the UK and monitoring that yourself 24/7, or Oblis suggestion of just looking at the stats for people LDing.

/rant on

Actually the fact that we live in France and not very far from the servers at that has EVERYTHING to do with the problem. We can't see the lag from here, we can see it on your ping plot results but we cannot see it in game. The servers show no sign of being under stress, we've run test after test and everything is normal. As for the client in the UK - well why exactly do you think we're asking for pingplots and traceroutes from people who live there? Could it possibly be because everyone at GOA lives in Paris and it's a hell of a lot easier and quicker (not to mention it gives us a much better picture of the problem) to ask people to email us a pingplot rather than sending a team around Europe to monitor the lag to our servers. No... that obviously isn't the right thing to do, I'll go get my passport and I'll let you know about the lag in 2 months when I've completed my little tour of Europe.

As for the LD stat thing - well, I don't even know if LDs are recorded and if they are if there's any way to retrieve that information. And even if there was and we did, what are we gonna tell OT?

"Look guys we have lots of people ld'ing here, look at the numbers!"
"Yeah that's not our fault."
"Yes it is!"
"Ok, show us the pingplots and tranceroutes that proove it's our problem."
"FFS...."

And finally a friendly word of warning: stop abusing the GMs. They are under absolutely NO obligation to come here and explain things to you. Carry on this way and they WILL go away.

/rant off

 

[Fana]

Dont go away Erivoss and Zenythe! We love to have you here, and not all of us try to abuse you =/ But you have to understand that people get cranky when they cant play, and dont know the reason or if the problem has been acknowledged etc.

Saw the News about OT finally taking some responsibilty on your homepage and that is good news indeed - lets all hope the problem gets fixed soon

 

[Kelan]

3 weeks of complaints from many players should tell you something is wrong.
Ppl just want info about this sort of thing, if you arent sure of wat the problem is just post it on your main webbie that you arent sure. Im sure as hell many many daoc players will try there best to send data and info from whereever u want it if you just ask for it peeps want things to run as smoothly as you do.

As for those ppl abusing gm's here on FH that shouldnt happen,but dont forget that here on fh is really the only place we actually have a chance to chat with you guys "1on1" as with rightnow we just become a number and nothing else.

Lets hope opentranist admit they borked something up in their maintenance of 3 weeks ago and we can get all this fixed in time for nf.

 

[Boni]

/rant on

Actually the fact that we live in France and not very far from the servers at that has EVERYTHING to do with the problem. We can't see the lag from here, we can see it on your ping plot results but we cannot see it in game. The servers show no sign of being under stress, we've run test after test and everything is normal. As for the client in the UK - well why exactly do you think we're asking for pingplots and traceroutes from people who live there? Could it possibly be because everyone at GOA lives in Paris and it's a hell of a lot easier and quicker (not to mention it gives us a much better picture of the problem) to ask people to email us a pingplot rather than sending a team around Europe to monitor the lag to our servers. No... that obviously isn't the right thing to do, I'll go get my passport and I'll let you know about the lag in 2 months when I've completed my little tour of Europe.

As for the LD stat thing - well, I don't even know if LDs are recorded and if they are if there's any way to retrieve that information. And even if there was and we did, what are we gonna tell OT?

"Look guys we have lots of people ld'ing here, look at the numbers!"
"Yeah that's not our fault."
"Yes it is!"
"Ok, show us the pingplots and tranceroutes that proove it's our problem."
"FFS...."

And finally a friendly word of warning: stop abusing the GMs. They are under absolutely NO obligation to come here and explain things to you. Carry on this way and they WILL go away.

/rant off

I undestand you live in Paris and cant run an easy pingplot there, but your solution of asking users to send pingplots clearly isnt working. You have received 2 pingplots.

Could you not use your E&Es? Do you have no contacts at all outside of Paris that work for you at all? Could you not route a client from Paris though a proxy outside?

Oh and as for your conversation with opentransit heres how mine would go:-

Look guys we have lots of people ld'ing here, look at the numbers!"
"Yeah that's not our fault."
"Yes it is!, look at these logs from 6:30 last night 100 people went linkdead at the same time, as you can see, they are all people who conncect via your hub blaa.blaa.blaa"
"Ok, show us the pingplots and tranceroutes that proove it's our problem."
"Sure heres a pingplot that we have had running 24/7 from outside of Paris, here you can clearly see the lag spike in your opentransit hub conicdes with the disconnection of our playerbase".


Oh and this isnt abuse, im trying to show you what you are doing wrong and even offering alternatives you might not have thought of. If you want a strickly one way conversation then please use the news pages on the homesight, this is a public form and I see no better place to express my oppinions about how its being handled by anyone.

 

[erialor]

/rant on
...
And finally a friendly word of warning: stop abusing the GMs. They are under absolutely NO obligation to come here and explain things to you. Carry on this way and they WILL go away.

/rant off

Ofc they shouldn't be abused - but then again, there haven't been much info on the official pages about this lag/ld problems, so we rly haven't anywhere else to post/ask/rant about it.

 

[Jace]

"Actually the fact that we live in France and not very far from the servers at that has EVERYTHING to do with the problem. We can't see the lag from here, we can see it on your ping plot results but we cannot see it in game. The servers show no sign of being under stress, we've run test after test and everything is normal. As for the client in the UK - well why exactly do you think we're asking for pingplots and traceroutes from people who live there? Could it possibly be because everyone at GOA lives in Paris and it's a hell of a lot easier and quicker (not to mention it gives us a much better picture of the problem) to ask people to email us a pingplot rather than sending a team around Europe to monitor the lag to our servers. No... that obviously isn't the right thing to do, I'll go get my passport and I'll let you know about the lag in 2 months when I've completed my little tour of Europe."

Nice mastery of sarcasm, did you pick that up as an RA or is it one of the free ones given at RR5 ? :/

Everyone knows you are based in France BUT you have an Eyes and Ears team . . . use their Eyes and Ears maybe?

 

[Teh FnoRd]

The fact that you live in france should not be a problem, but your far to lazy to look at any options like setting up one client in the UK and monitoring that yourself 24/7, or Oblis suggestion of just looking at the stats for people LDing.

Yeah they have all the time in the world to do everything, but they don't because they play with their monkey all the time...
I just wrote this in another thread and I write it again: Get a clue. :touch:
And please people, don't freaking blame and/or flame the GMs for every little thing your silly little minds can come up whining about.

 

[Icebreaker]

I don't really know where your Problem is. Daoc ran nearly lagfree the last 3 Years. (Atleast for me). And now you can't live for a few Days with this? xD

 

[Eraser]

And finally a friendly word of warning: stop abusing the GMs. They are under absolutely NO obligation to come here and explain things to you. Carry on this way and they WILL go away.

hm. i didnt see any GM abusing in this thread, but i will read up again, might have missed the part which made you angry.

still i must add my point of view to this statement:
you are right, im sure the GOA GMs dont have to come to these forums and give information to the community and i can even imagine you are doing this in your time off work to help the people.

BUT:
threaten us with going away is really not a nice move. the reason why we, your customers, communicate with you, the GOA staff, here on this forum is that there isnt any other way. the forum on the official site was closed years ago and usually there is hardly any up-to-date info given via the official news-page regarding problems.

dont get me wrong, i dont want to rant and for sure dont want to make the GMs angry, as i really am happy we have this channel to talk with you, ask questions and get answers.
but GOA shouldnt be TOO proud about this makeshift solution. i can imagine a customer service much better to be honest.