Killing someone; what is the wrong? (opinions)

[old.Tohtori]

Topic makes you think "Oh gods, toht is gonnaz defend murder now?!"

No no, not at all.

I'm just curious on what makes killing someone wrong in peoples opinion.

Simple question in itself, but do consider this before you answer;

- Many think that in wartime, it's ok/understandable/choose term.
- Same goes if the question is capital punishment.
- Same again if it's a murderer/druggie/bad guy who dies.
- Other reasons may be too.

So we have, in large quantities, pro-kill people too, depending on the situation.

So considering that, what is the main reason, or argument, for making killing someone bad/wrong in your books?

Note: not the situation in which it's ok(you can say that too ofc), but what makes it generally wrong.


Disclaimer bits for the trigger happy:

To clear things, i'm not one to support killing someone, or saying that killing is ok. I think it's ok if it's the last possible scenario, where all else would fail. Self defence is acceptable and wartime ofcourse is just that, kill or be killed.

That's not to say i think war is ok, just that it's understandable for the soldiers, on either side.

 

[fl3a]

i think it comes from the ingrained feeling in the human psyche that 'future is uncertain'; by that i mean that however shitty a situation you might currently be in, it might all change in the future to a full turnaround, and even if someone is completely miserable at the moment, in the future they might be the happiest guy in the world. now when the question of death is looked at, with this background, it seems that death is the worst thing that could happen. sawing off someones legs, cutting off their dick and so on might seem very harsh, but death is still viewed as worse than those, because with the aforementioned actions there might come a time in the future where it all turns around and people feel good about having their feet sawed off, or maybe they become an awesome cyborg, whatever.

so, the 'wrong' in killing someone is that for many people, without additional thought, death is the worst thing that can happen since you take away their future, which might bring an infinite amount of anything. by killing someone you are not only taking away their current life stage but also all the others that might follow. thats the jist of it, how i understand it.

 

[Raven]

<gets comfortable>

 

[Thorwyn]

So considering that, what is the main reason, or argument, for making killing someone bad/wrong in your books?

Respect for life. Or, to say it in a flourish way: categorical imperative.

 

[Talivar]

Killing someone is bad for the simple reason it causes chaos within a society, if people where to be able to kill at whim then socity would crumble or atleast become something akin to the lawless parts of the wild west. So to keep people calm and keep society running smoothly , things like killing have to be deemed as bad. Not my own personal views of how it should be but a nice marxist answer to help the debate

 

[soze]

I think it's hard to express your own opinion on this as the main reason this is wrong is because of society. I can not even contemplate killing someone because it has always been one of the ultimate evils. And I suppose the same is true of war a large part of the society think killing in the name of your country is ok.

 

[fl3a]

I can not even contemplate killing someone because it has always been one of the ultimate evils.

to my understanding the whole point of this thread is 'WHY is it one of the ultimate evils'. its actually a very good thinking exercise, props to toht for making it

 

[soze]

to my understanding the whole point of this thread is 'WHY is it one of the ultimate evils'. its actually a very good thinking exercise, props to toht for making it

Well the answer is because I was raised in a society where it is the ultimate evil. And it is really my only answer I have never though why is it wrong to kill because I know it is. I am just crap for this kind of discussion obviously lol

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

<gets comfortable>

It does rather have all the hallmarks of a classic.

 

[kirennia]

It does rather have all the hallmarks of a classic.

I'll add to that.

Because it says so in the Bible.

 

[Turamber]

Life is sacred. And if you don't believe that -- killing somebody ends all of their hopes, all of their possibilities and damages the social chain that they belong too, also limiting their hopes and possibilities.

Not that killing someone is always wrong, when sanctioned by law it can be appropriate. As in that case you are safeguarding society.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Well there are already a couple of classics, loved the "categorial imperative"

Now, sacred life, killing future, chaos in society..and others.

If that's your main reason why, how can(if you do) you support it when the good guys do it?

War, bad guy dies(murderer whatnot), capital punkishment. As said in first post.

If someone posted a news where "Drug war kills 10, all with criminal connections", most people here wouldn't even blink.

If it was "drug bust kills 1 mother", it'd be an outrage.

So how come, when the object of murder becomes more distant(war enemy) or less "moral"(criminal), it becomes more acceptable for them to die?

 

[old.Whoodoo]

When punishement fits the crime?

Peados, drug pushers, rapists and murderers for example, line em up.

In war, its more they are the enemy, if I dont shoot them, they will shoot me.

Anyone outside of this, is not supposed to be killed, and if they are innocent, thats where the line should be.


....i think...

 

[Gengi]

There is the Moral Code inherent in our society that says thou shalt not Kill, but underneath that, there is always the 'enlightened Self Interest' motive. Death is kind of final, and if you need the person you killed some time down the line, you are shit out of luck.

Wow, this was good, an e-mail from the webmaster on the day Tohtori starts a death, what is it all about thread ?

Later

 

[Talivar]

Tbh i think if you could remove the fear of punishment or even the punishment itself, then you would see murder rates soar. Some ofc would never kill because an innocent ebcause of their moral code but i reckon a much larger percentage would if they knew they could get away with it, if it furthered their own self interests.
So in short as to why then my answer for many is FEAR.

 

[Turamber]

I'd like to think that most people find the idea of murder to be naturally abhorrent.

 

[Talivar]

look back at prevous civilisations like the romans or even medivial kingdoms. The upper classes killed the lower classes almost on whims for even the smallest reasons. When people are given the power to do this without fear of retribution, history has shown us they will.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Fear of consequence could be the end all reason, human nature surely doesn't come in the way as there's plenty of peeps who've killed.

It's interesting though how the definition changes, depending on the subject.

Take a hardcore "life is sacred" person, kill their dog and drop their granny downa well and suddenly they say it's ok to kill that person. Not even that is needed, usually the "guy broke the law" is already enough.

So could it be fair to say that; justification for death is dependant of the observer.

EDIT: know that last line would open a lot of wormcans

 

[Jiggs]

Malice aforethought.

 

[Lamp]

its only a question of morality

 

[fettoken]

Killing me is wrong, anything else goes

 

[Killswitch]

I would argue this is a bit of a non-question in many ways. We derive great benefits from existing within a society. We are able to travel in relative safety, trade with confidence and have a realistic expectation of support in times of trouble.The price of existing within a society is the acceptance of a social contract which can be loosely defined as "only do stuff which is in the best interest of the society as a whole".

What is considered to be in the society's best interest is codified in the laws and statutes of that society, as well as in a generally accepted moral code which is backed by the law in extremis. Killing a law-abiding taxpayer is bad. Killing a foreigner is bad. Killing an enemy soldier in the defence of your society and its way of life is acceptable if regrettable.

So I would say that as the base of things, killing people is wrong because it's not in our best interest to do so. It's a hard thing to get straight of course. Some religious people truly believe that they are doing the right thing for their society (and their souls) by murdering nurses and doctors at abortion clinics. While I don't get on with the whole "abortion is murder" crowd, it seems to me a classic case of when two intertwined societies (Catholicism and Americans) have incompatible "interests". This is where we have the law as, in effect, a tie-breaker.

In conclusion...it's wrong to kill people in any situation unless the laws that govern your society say otherwise. This is why I get a little antsy when Western ethics and morality are imposed onto other cultures. That said, being stoned to death for talking back to your husband is probably a little extreme.

I don't know...it's too complicated!!! DAMN YOU TOHT!!! Now I have a headache!!

 

[old.Tohtori]

Yeah, just call me the brainhurter

Here's a little more thought for brain.

What would be your limit?

Here's a few examples of limits;

- Killing a murderer to ensure your family a future of good living.
- Killing an innocent to avoid your family being killed.
- Killing a white collar criminal to ensure your financial security.

And so on, you can make a lot of examples from extreme to extreme.

Where would you draw the line and at what point would you be willing to drop your reasons?

 

[Tuthmes]

Depends on if I hade my coffee yet or if I hade my 12th beer.