Keep take balcony "strat" IS an exploit

[Tallen]

Been curious about this for a while, it seems a no-brainer that it's bug abuse, but everyone does it and it seems to be an acceptable strategy, so i asked:

Dear Customer,

This is indeed an exploit. Please report any players that you witness performing this activity.
For any further queries don't hesitate to contact us via the in game Ticket system.

Kind Regards,

WAR European Customer Support Team


Your appeal:
Killing the lord on the balcony seems like bug abuse...is it?
BATTLEFIELD OBJECTIVE NAME: Any keep

 

[`mongoose]

Does anyone still do this?

I suspect it might get done by ninja groups in the morning or late in the evening where there's no defenders to report them but I know every take I've witnessed recently has been squeaky clean.

M

 

[mooSe_]

Yeah this use to be the standard strategy in pretty much every keep take I was in but recently that's changed.

 

[Ctuchik]

aww, then i cant punt players off the balcony with my BO and reset the lord that way anymore



was great fun standing at the keep merchants looking down at them killing the lord, target their tank and jump down and punt him off the keep when lord were at 10%

lord would then either go rampage on their squishys or just reset

 

[Kinag]

That's an exploit?

Had no idea.. was in a keep take group (1fg) who did that yesterday.

Ah well, was the last time I'll agree to it.

 

[Grotnob]

If this actually is an exploit in more than just a certain CSRs opinion, Goa need to make this public knowledge officially as an announcement. It still seems to be fairly prevalent in T2 on Hirn when there aren't enough people to form a full warband.

Not saying you need a full warband to fight the lord and his guards in his room, but if you have less, you need more organisation than the average pug can muster, and if the keep's at all defended, you can forget it.

I suppose Mythic could stop this happening by changing the open doorways on to the balcony into postern style doors, or make it so that if one mob in the lord+bodyguard group resets, they all do. That way, you can fight on the balcony if you want, but you're still fighting all the mobs, not just the lord.

 

[Faeldawn]

If this actually is an exploit in more than just a certain CSRs opinion, Goa need to make this public knowledge officially as an announcement. It still seems to be fairly prevalent in T2 on Hirn when there aren't enough people to form a full warband.

Not saying you need a full warband to fight the lord and his guards in his room, but if you have less, you need more organisation than the average pug can muster, and if the keep's at all defended, you can forget it.

I suppose Mythic could stop this happening by changing the open doorways on to the balcony into postern style doors, or make it so that if one mob in the lord+bodyguard group resets, they all do. That way, you can fight on the balcony if you want, but you're still fighting all the mobs, not just the lord.

I think this is the core issue here in difficulty for taking T2 keeps in particular, people are using this bug because they cannot kill the lord in his room with the champs around.

T2 for certain you need a lot of players and 3-4 high level tanks plus at least 4-5 good healers to take down the lord in his room. If the keep is defended you really have no chance unles you have 30+ players.

It is definitely an exploit as your bypassing the champion guards simply by using their reset distance, it was flagged up many times in beta.

 

[hibblet]

It is definitely an exploit as your bypassing the champion guards simply by using their reset distance, it was flagged up many times in beta.

aye well said, beta was way back so they should of fixed it by now.


any 1 got any superglue to stick the lord and his guards to the floor in his room ? ,

seems to be a few bugs with lords / twr bosses disapearing through wall only then to reappear with full health,

 

[Faeldawn]

aye well said, beta was way back so they should of fixed it by now.


any 1 got any superglue to stick the lord and his guards to the floor in his room ? ,

seems to be a few bugs with lords / twr bosses disapearing through wall only then to reappear with full health,

I know the tower in High Pass has pathing problems with the hero and several of the champs. They are trying to attack players out of melee range who have aggro'd them but cannot path to that location so they follow a different path and reset.

The way around this is to have everyone stood on the Hero mob, including healers and ranged dps, but thats not really addressing ths issue.

 

[hibblet]

I know the tower in High Pass has pathing problems with the hero and several of the champs. They are trying to attack players out of melee range who have aggro'd them but cannot path to that location so they follow a different path and reset.

The way around this is to have everyone stood on the Hero mob, including healers and ranged dps, but thats not really addressing ths issue.

seen on warhammer as forums the same sort of post about same subject,

Is this new or have I missed something - Warhammer Forums

can see what they are thinking about it

 

[mooSe_]

I don't think they should give the lord a smaller aggro zone as it's pretty small already. I think it should be set up so when you attack one of the mobs in the lord room they all come to attack you.

 

[Jalanteriel]

Whynot just make them like BOs and have the criteria of killing the guards off ebfore you can claim? Problem sovled!

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Unlike BOs the guards despawn as soon as you kill the Keep Lord. The real solution is to tether the Lord properly as this also stops other problems during keep takes.

If not tethering the Lord then the guards should move with him. If I was a nasty dev I'd make more guards spawn on the balcony if the lord went out there.

 

[Ctuchik]

If not tethering the Lord then the guards should move with him. If I was a nasty dev I'd make more guards spawn on the balcony if the lord went out there.

Roo for developer! or have it turn into an actual LORD boss if pulled outside the room


that would be amusing to see

 

[Grotnob]

...or have it turn into an actual LORD boss if pulled outside the room


that would be amusing to see

Oh hell yeah... Single out the guy with the aggro, and punt him on to the balcony. Hero trains after him, converts to Lord, and hey presto! Instant wipe!

 

[Fafner]

So what exactly is the exploit. Is it single pulling the lord to the balcony.. Or is it running past the lord and his bodyguards and resetting them all and then taking them all on from the clearly tactically superior position of the balcony?

It seems to me that its very hard to start the lord fight in any organized way when you are just comming up the stairs. All the mobs aggro at once and but its very dificult to make them not reset when a heal hits.

1 hero and 4 champions arent really a match for your average group. The dificulty comes in the arcitechture of the keep and the fact that the defenders are tethered to the 1st floor. Which forces zerging. Im so sick of tethers and other such limitations.

It should be possible for 1 group to take a keep. But currently its only possible by forcing a reset. Atleast in tier 2 and 3.

And one "CSR reply" does not make a rule. They need to announce it publicly on their website or in a dev post.

 

[Grotnob]

It should be possible for 1 group to take a keep.

Really? Where does it say that?

Or is that just your opinion?

And one "CSR reply" does not make a rule.

There's been quite a few more than one.

They need to announce it publicly on their website or in a dev post.

Yes. Yes they do.

 

[Fafner]

Yes that is my oppinion.

What Im saying is its not the mobs that make it dificult. Its the tether.

Hell you can duo BOs. Ive even soloed a hero there. so why should you need 22 more people for the same mobs just cause they are in a keep? Sure the reward is higher, but the dificulty shouldnt come from geography or architecture or some arbitrary range when the mobs reset.

Going to the balcony and resetting so you only have to kill the lord was an easy fix thought up by industrious players to bypass a rotten mechanic.

But is there a real strat now? Other than zerging?

Was looking for CSR/DEV posts on the matter but havent found any.

 

[Ctuchik]

Oh hell yeah... Single out the guy with the aggro, and punt him on to the balcony. Hero trains after him, converts to Lord, and hey presto! Instant wipe!

well, obviously he reverts to a hero once inside the room again...

besides, even if u do punt someone out to the exterior of the keep its easy enough to run back in.

and to prevent that they could set a 10 - 15 second timer before the boss turns into a lord. that would effectively prevent griefing.

 

[Faeldawn]

So what exactly is the exploit. Is it single pulling the lord to the balcony.. Or is it running past the lord and his bodyguards and resetting them all and then taking them all on from the clearly tactically superior position of the balcony?

It seems to me that its very hard to start the lord fight in any organized way when you are just comming up the stairs. All the mobs aggro at once and but its very dificult to make them not reset when a heal hits.

1 hero and 4 champions arent really a match for your average group. The dificulty comes in the arcitechture of the keep and the fact that the defenders are tethered to the 1st floor. Which forces zerging. Im so sick of tethers and other such limitations.

It should be possible for 1 group to take a keep. But currently its only possible by forcing a reset. Atleast in tier 2 and 3.

And one "CSR reply" does not make a rule. They need to announce it publicly on their website or in a dev post.

The balcony "strat" is to pull the lord to the balcony on his own bypassing the champions, if you were engaging the champions as well it would not be an exploit. I fail to see how you are confused here, it's probably the most well known exploit in the game.

Why should it be possible for one group to take a keep?

And one CSR reply does absolutely make a rule especially when he is asking the player to report others using the exploit, there is no ambiguity in the reply, thats the point of asking for clarification on an issue from a CSR....otherwise why bother having CSR's respond to such queries at all? However, yes it should indeed be publically announced and addressed.

 

[Ctuchik]

So what exactly is the exploit. Is it single pulling the lord to the balcony..

yes, you can pull the lord to the balcony without having to worry about its guards to much, making it an all to easy kill.

and how exactly were you able to solo a hero mob without using bugs to your advantage?

And one "CSR reply" does not make a rule.

says what law?

 

[Fafner]

and how exactly were you able to solo a hero mob without using bugs to your advantage?

Took me about 15 mins as a black orc to kill a High Elf BO hero. But that was before they changed the tier 3 armour and I havent done it since.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fafner
And one "CSR reply" does not make a rule.

says what law?

says the law that I dont believe everything thats been copy/pasted into a forum thread to be the gospel truth... heck I dont even believe the gospel truth to be the truth.. No way to tell if its a real CSR reply or a doctored one..

Also CSRs dont decide what is wrong and what is right. Ive only ever seen anything that looks like a stance on the subject in this thread. So why should I think it was the rule. If a dev replied to this thread and said: "Yes, it is an exploit". I wouldnt have any reason to doubt it.

Also I am perfectly aware of how to pull of balcony pulling. I was only hinting that running past all the mobs and resetting them and then pulling them all could also be viewed as an exploit for all of the same reasons except for negating the champions.

And Im trying to point out that the biggest issue is not people exploiting, but poor design.

They should make the Keeps like BOs, so you have to kill all 5 within a timeframe. Then you could also save a champion for last and kill it while you rezz people so they would have a chance to loot what they win in the roll.

 

[Twoeye]

and how exactly were you able to solo a hero mob without using bugs to your advantage?

Its all depending on class.....i'v done it on both Destro and Order , and no you dont have to use some "bugs" as advantage . Tho i must say one specific side has a advantage in doing it , hell you can even do it with 2 diff classes on that side.....and it was/is done with ease

 

[Fafner]

Just to point out why I dont put much stock in a single pasted "csr reply"
https://forums.freddyshouse.com/warhammer308/234628-banner-walls.html#post3477889

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Although I accept that the balcony pull is officially an exploit and will neither participate or encourage people to use it, at first people didn't know this and figured it was just a clever way to take a keep when there weren't very many of you around.

Basically though it comes down to very poor coding which unfortunately has a knock-on effect for the whole zone where the Keep changes hands.

Mythic/GOA would have been smarter not to highlight this as an exploit and make hotfixing this a top priority. Its not like pulling the lord out onto the balcony on his own is breaking news.

I don't agree with players continuing to do this since CSRs are busy telling each and every one that its a bannable exploit. The MMO provider lays down the rules and the players have to fall into line or find other things to do with their recreational time. I fully accept this.

However, GOA/Mythic should have kept quiet on this one while making it a top priority for the Mythic bug-fixing team. Tether the lord into the room, have the guards follow him or have other guards spawn outside - whatever it takes.

This differs from most 'exploits' in that the players are not abusing any geometry or special mechanics for the balcony dance to happen. All they do is run up the stairs and outside. In the early days of WAR I was ordering people to do this purely to break up line of sight to defenders so they'd have to follow us out and their casters/healers would have a harder time. Little did I know that we were blundering into some of the more dodgy coding. This is why the whole thing troubles me - many innocent players are just puttering about thinking they are having a nice time when really they've stumbled into Ban territory.

By chasing players and making it a bannable offence its been turned into the current hot potatoe when it really didn't need to be.

 

[mooSe_]

Keeps and fortresses should be redesigned at some point (once other more pressing matters are dealt with) in my opinion. I don't like the 1 ramp layout.