Just observed a convo on facebook...

[old.Tohtori]

try telling anyone who served in WW2 that it wasnt important, jesus toht, come on, if the allies had lost then you would not be living in the society where you are allowed the freedom to express your views as easy as you are now

WW2 changed everything and if you cant see that then i seriuosly doubt you can see anything

Yes that's what i said, i did say "ww2 didn't mean anything", and i never said "it's important to the people who were in it and directly related".

In relation to other wars; if WW1 had been lost, things would be different. If the US civil war had ended other way, the yanks might have been against us in WW2 etc etc.

So incase you still misunderstand; it's important to those involved, but later in future and to those less effected, it's as important(not non-important) as any other war and many nations have way more important wars, like catalonia vs spain thing.

 

[Dark Orb Choir]

i understand what you are tyring to say but i think its a bit nieve to think that ww2 was just like any other war and that it will not be remembered in 50 years time.

 

[Chronictank]

So incase you still misunderstand; it's important to those involved, but later in future and to those less effected, it's as important(not non-important) as any other war and many nations have way more important wars, like catalonia vs spain thing.

i understand what you are tyring to say but i think its a bit nieve to think that ww2 was just like any other war and that it will not be remembered in 50 years time.

It is naive to say it isn't like any other significant event in history, see my previous post for examples which have shaped the world just as much if not more.
It will most likely still be remembered in 50 years time, but not because of its historical significance in its own right

 

[Lakih]

She is 17/18 - yr 13 possible yr 12.

Quoted just for emphasis...

She is an adult woman (legaly)... she should know these things, atleast have a basic conseption (Hollocaust - ww2 - lots of dead people in europe - A-bomb).

I think she is just plain stupid to be blunt.

 

[old.Tohtori]

i understand what you are tyring to say but i think its a bit nieve to think that ww2 was just like any other war and that it will not be remembered in 50 years time.

It was actually less important in my opinion then WW1 and it won't be remembered IN RELATIONS as anything special compared to other wars.

It's going to become history.

Now it still seems like a big deal, because to modenr day people it's still "fresh history".

Bring out WW3 aka nukewar and WW2 will lose more importance.

It's how the human race works.

 

[Bugz]

Bugz is flaming a 12-13 year old...

She is 17/18.

Please learn to read before you discharge comments Toht.

That is a very fair point you bring up Chronic - I guess as history moves on and develops, we lose track of the past. I guess WW2 is no longer as pivotal in our lifes now as it was in the past and instead terrorism threatens our existence, as opposed to the threats of the 20th century. But seeing as though society still holds a place for the wars in our lifes, what with remembrance day etc., then kids still should be knowledgeable about it and should at the least know the main points of said wars.

Lastly, just to paraphrase the question of the OP, I wanted to hear opinions on whether we are entering a new generation where the past plays less of a part in our future, as opposed to how important wars are against each other. I choose WW2 because the girl inspired the thread firstly, and because secondly, it was pivotal to much of western Europe.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Please learn to read before you discharge comments Toht.

Saying "she's 17/18 yr12 possibly yr13" is confusing as f*ck though, but fair enough, points stand still(just scratch the 12-13yr thing).

I'd say WW2 was the LAST pivotal point in europe wars. As the US wars don't really count as that pivotal to us.

 

[Bugz]

I'd say WW2 was the LAST pivotal point in europe wars. As the US wars don't really count as that pivotal to us.

Exactly! I don't count the war on terrorism a war either; as it's strongly debatable how much of it is induced by the govt. Thus, children should know about WW2 tbh.

 

[Dark Orb Choir]

i think this is important as well, we should never forget what goes on

 

[Chronictank]

Lastly, just to paraphrase the question of the OP, I wanted to hear opinions on whether we are entering a new generation where the past plays less of a part in our future, as opposed to how important wars are against each other. I choose WW2 because the girl inspired the thread firstly, and because secondly, it was pivotal to much of western Europe.

I think the past always plays a role, but the significance of that role is lost over time.
A prime example in modern day politics is the BNP, who use examples of the world war as their propoganda tool missing the whole point of the war itself.
If the real significance of the whole event was still fresh in peoples mind's realistically would they get away with it?

But equally just look at the Israel-Palestine conflict to see if previous wars have a lasting effect on countries, they still have their propoganda machines running and hate is pretty deep-rooted into their societies now. It will be many many years before there is any trust between those parties even after (if they ever do) they make peace, a conflict like that leaves very lasting scars but even they lose their significance over time as illustrated by Germany and her surrounding countries

Just look at Vietnam and Japan, while the open hostilities have dissapeared for the most part there is still widespread distrust and general dislike of the Americans there.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Exactly! I don't count the war on terrorism a war either; as it's strongly debatable how much of it is induced by the govt. Thus, children should know about WW2 tbh.

Don't put words in my mouth.

The war on terrorism isn't a war.

Vietnam war and gulf war were the US wars i was talking about.

I said WW2 was the last pivotal EUROPE war.

There are lesser wars, but it doesn't make WW2 more important then say, the civil war for the US, the winter war for fins, the catalonia vs spain thingy(spain gives a crap about ww2 btw, in general). It's just another war, only people it effects mroe, as i said many times, are the people who were in it and were directly effected. It's a family(if they choose) teaching job to teach more about it, not the schooling system.

When looked at from a neutral point of view, WW2 isn't the most important war to happen and as such, it shouldn't be taught any more then other as important wars.

 

[Ch3tan]

Actually toht, it was the most important war to happen in modern history, wars like Vietnam would not have hugely changed the world today. Had the Germans won, or the Russians pushed on we would be living in a hugely different world.

 

[megadave]

they should remove channels 3, 4 and 5 from terrestrial tv and replace them with history channels

or atleast replace big brother with documentaries like Hitler's War

 

[Dark Orb Choir]

Actually toht, it was the most important war to happen in modern history, wars like Vietnam would not have hugely changed the world today. Had the Germans won, or the Russians pushed on we would be living in a hugely different world.

did you realise you just agreed with me chetan, thats scary

 

[mooSe_]

You say she is 17/18? Everyone I know who is around that age knows what the holocaust is and at least vaguely what happened in WW2. I don't think there really is a trend of people giving WW2 less importance that seems to be suggested in this thread.
Of course wars in the past do get less attention, but I don't think that either of the world wars are exactly going to be forgotten about due to the massive scale of them.
I dropped history in year 9 and I know about world war 2. I am also around the same age as this girl so she probably had a similar curriculum at school to me.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Actually toht, it was the most important war to happen in modern history, wars like Vietnam would not have hugely changed the world today. Had the Germans won, or the Russians pushed on we would be living in a hugely different world.

I said that.

Vietnam etc effected the US more, but compared to WW1, WW2 isn't special.

And like i said, if the US civil war had ended different, the WW2 would most likely gone a different route too.

Hell, even if the finns had lost their war of independence, the russians would've had more poewr in WW2 too.

Saying WW2 is the most important war is bull, if talked from a neutral point of view and not a sentimental.

Also people knowing more about WW2 is due to movies/games, while WW1 is widely a gray area at best.

 

[Ch3tan]

I didn't actually agree with you toht, I'm not however getting into this, people are going to get too emotional in a thread like this, and never accept anyone else's views.

I agree that what is important to people moves on, history shows us that as a race we suck at learning from the mistakes of others simply because we do not place importance in things that pass out of living memory.

If the holocaust was so bad and should never be forgotten then how come we make light of and turn a blind eye to modern day genocide? I doubt that we could name as a group the atrocities that have happened in the last 20 years.

 

[Bugz]

Don't put words in my mouth.

The war on terrorism isn't a war.

Vietnam war and gulf war were the US wars i was talking about.

I said WW2 was the last pivotal EUROPE war.

There are lesser wars, but it doesn't make WW2 more important then say, the civil war for the US, the winter war for fins, the catalonia vs spain thingy(spain gives a crap about ww2 btw, in general). It's just another war, only people it effects mroe, as i said many times, are the people who were in it and were directly effected. It's a family(if they choose) teaching job to teach more about it, not the schooling system.

When looked at from a neutral point of view, WW2 isn't the most important war to happen and as such, it shouldn't be taught any more then other as important wars.

????????????????????????

I was agreeing with you :l

 

[old.Tohtori]

????????????????????????

I was agreeing with you :l

You were agreeing with a point, but it wasn't meant as you posted it. I simply corrected so the view you quoted isn't skewed.

You were agreeing with something that was out of context

Or how to put it different; your post stilla dvocated the importance of WW2 as superior.

Forgot to mention earlier also that the nazis winning shouldn't be used as an "argument point" for importance of the war, as none of us would really care as we would've been born in a nazi world and all the rest would be dead. We wouldn't find, most likely, anything wrong in that world. Well, any more then people find fault in this world.

 

[Bugz]

Nevermind lol.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Actually not a bad idea, nevermind

Have to add ww2 into the list of things NEVER EVER EVER EVER EVE....HE-EVER to talk about.

WW2, religion, past relationships, politics and ofcourse justin timberlake.

 

[Turamber]

Most people don't know about the history of the Mongols or how close Europe was to being invaded
How about the rise and fall of rome?
The islamic revolution?

Well I could talk to you about all of those things as I am interested in history, and find people with no interest in the past to be, on the whole, quite tiresome and shallow.

I would expect everybody to know certain events about their own country. When I found a co-worker didn't know what had happened in 1066 in this country I was not impressed.

But the holocaust is a blight on humanity and continues to be newsworthy as certain Muslim states maintain that it never happened, as do the neo-nazis in Germany.

It is very sad that in the internet era, where information is available at the touch of a few keystrokes, people should be so uninformed.

 

[Thorwyn]

...as do the neo-nazis in Germany.

...as do the Neo-Nazis everywhere in the world.

 

[TdC]

If the holocaust was so bad and should never be forgotten then how come we make light of and turn a blind eye to modern day genocide?

answer to that is easy but also very sad :/

 

[Bugz]

answer to that is easy but also very sad :/

But I guess when you think about it; probably the same reason why countries during the 20th century didn't give much of a hoot for the actions in Europe either.