IT jobs

[Furr]

I need some advice, and being that there are many wise and "ahem" older IT orientated people here, thought I'd have a shot at asking you lot.

So I managed to gain myself a First Class Honours Computer Science degree from one of the smaller University of London colleges, Been working 7 years on an off doing various IT projects, mainly web design and web application design stuff, one good client being the ECB, and a City Financial IT consultancy firm.

So now I'm job hunting for something more substantial and not Web base, I hate web design..., however my A-levels are on the rubbish side of terrible due to that period being a really bad time in my life. I only managed to get into my uni thanks to my work experience and them giving me a chance which I made the most of.

Thus on balance does anyone here have advice about job hunting, I've set myself up on monster.com (and had several "recruitment" agents get in touch...), applied to a few of the big names as it seems to be the done thing, but most "Graduate" courses require a certain number of A-level points which I really don't have...

I guess it's a matter of getting my foot in the interview door, which is the toughest aspect.

And advice would be great.

 

[Jupitus]

If you've been working for 7 years or so it will be more about your skills and experience during that time than A level results... your degree stacks up as good which should put you in with a decent chance. Still aiming for London-based?

 

[inactionman]

Depends on what you are looking for really.

I now work in the NHS, and they are crying out for good IT people. Yes there are problems, but it's not as bad as you think, there's lots of upgrade work going on (replacing ancient systems with modern stuff), and the work/life balance is good.

Strangely people aren't applying much, I guess they aren't that interested or desperate yet.

 

[Chilly]

How old are you? Most grad schemes don't want zimmer jockeys in as it defeats the object which is to indoctrinate youngsters in the ways of [evil corporation #5]. Eg I did the grad scheme at betfair direct from uni with a shit degree (they hired me for my nerdiness and experience rather than paper quals) and now I'm the posterboy for their grad scheme when they get new candidates in.

 

[Jupitus]

and now I'm the posterboy for their grad scheme

Well that's not gonna be on A0 size... A-15 anyone?

 

[ST^]

Most job requirements are created simply to weed out shitty applicants. You usually have a chance as long as your CV stands out.

 

[Furr]

I'm the grand ol age of 25, so still young. The most preferable location would be London as it's easy for me to commute in and out of central in the short term (50 mins straight to London Bridge / Victoria), while a little later on I will be looking to move in London.

 

[rynnor]

Decide what you want to do first - coder/tester/business analyst/manager are your main options.

Have you tried IT contracting? Can be fun and good for networking and seeing if you like a company?

If you dont mind working huge hours and having no life theres always the city... most of em end up burned out tho.

What do you really want to do - most people have an idea but just dont see how to get there.

 

[Furr]

I've worked and have a job essentially "waiting" for me in the City at the moment, but its Java Developer coding of Financial IT systems for a company that is smallish but made up of loads of consultants. and I just know that while the pay would be good the environment would really take chunks out my soul, however the people there are very well connected to all the big banks and hedge funds but it's just an area I can't see myself thriving in. I'm sitting on that at the moment, although the window isn't to large if I have to I'll do it for a year, but it doesn't appeal to me.

A bonus mark, for my CV at least, is a web site and application that I've been developing the last year for the ECB which has attracted further interest from the RFU and the NFL (in America), so I'm also focusing on getting that done, I still own the intellectual rights to the technology while the ECB own the rights to the content. However it's a unique system that they are immensely happy with and if I was able to get it developed well enough that the NFL do decide they want it, it would add further weight to my prospects I'm sure. I'm experience with project life cycles, developing ideas into functioning implementations and as well as face to face contact, a geek who's not a geek if you know what I mean. But the work is lonely and I thrive in human contact situations.

And you're right rynnor, I know the rough field, it and tech related, but I'm not sure what I'd enjoy specifically, almost makes me want to retreat back into Academia...

 

[Roo Stercogburn]

Depends on what you are looking for really.

I now work in the NHS, and they are crying out for good IT people. Yes there are problems, but it's not as bad as you think, there's lots of upgrade work going on (replacing ancient systems with modern stuff), and the work/life balance is good.

Strangely people aren't applying much, I guess they aren't that interested or desperate yet.

NHS tend to pay below the going rate for the likes of IT staff. Also, it can be hard to get out of the NHS and into other mainstream IT jobs though of course its down to the individual. Also, despite there being a lot of IT work within the NHS, there is a very strong chance you will get bogged down in bespoke systems that are not good on the CV.

I speak from experience

I once worked in the NHS. I was interviewed by a committee of 4. The first question they asked me was, "What made you want to work in the NHS?"

I answered, "I don't."

I worked there for around 2 years in their IT department.

 

[DaGaffer]

First of all, what do you hate about web design? Before you throw the baby out with the bathwater, web development is one of the few real growth areas and with relevant experience its easier to parlay a web role into other IT roles within an organisation than try to start from scratch on a graduate scheme, which, to be honest, you probably won't get onto, because you've already been working for several years. This isn't because you're too old (I was on a graduate scheme at 26 because I didn't start uni until 22) or because you don't have the right A level points, but because graduate schemes are designed with fresh blood in mind. They're there to mold and shape and not for people with real work experience.

Its not clear what kind of IT direction you're interested in taking, but I'd consider aiming for web dev in a big corporate or a decent consultancy that specialises (e.g. IBM Websphere), which can then take you in all sorts of directions.

 

[Chilly]

Gaffer: you've just said it yourself.

Web DESIGN and web DEVELOPMENT and totally different things. A growing majority of all development can be classed as web development these days and they decreasingly use playground languages like PHP and RUBY, moving to java and .net languages.

I can do an end to end website: frmo the html and JS to the db schemas that hold the data. However, my forte is scalable systems and frontend work is beneath me these days.

 

[Furr]

Its the tedium, I've always been in small teams or individual projects and the boredom of writing CSS + HTML just drives me to tears, it's probably this that has most put me off.

While developing and implementing large systems as part of a larger commercial team would appeal to me. It would seem as Chilly says that the "design" aspect is what pains me, development of applications is much more interesting. I guess looking at the development angle would be a good idea, also the question is which companies to go fore, the city appears to be filled with banks and I have a feeling the many companies I'd like to look at are in the Thames valley...

Plus the money has to be good

 

[DaGaffer]

Gaffer: you've just said it yourself.

Web DESIGN and web DEVELOPMENT and totally different things. A growing majority of all development can be classed as web development these days and they decreasingly use playground languages like PHP and RUBY, moving to java and .net languages.

I can do an end to end website: frmo the html and JS to the db schemas that hold the data. However, my forte is scalable systems and frontend work is beneath me these days.

The web developers that clients really want are the guys who can design as well. They may not have to do the grunt work, but understanding both speeds things up enormously; this is particularly true in the agency world. I'd take a look at some of the agencies specialising in ecommerce (the Salmons or CSIs of this world), as that would give you a way in through design into Java development. Unlike banks etc. the front-end skills are particularly valuable to them.

 

[Chilly]

The web developers that clients really want are the guys who can design as well. They may not have to do the grunt work, but understanding both speeds things up enormously; this is particularly true in the agency world. I'd take a look at some of the agencies specialising in ecommerce (the Salmons or CSIs of this world), as that would give you a way in through design into Java development. Unlike banks etc. the front-end skills are particularly valuable to them.

I'd say that's only true for small websites. I work for the UK's largest online company and we have people who couldn't write so much as a hello world in HTML writing ultra-scalable back end code.

Decoupling logic, data and presentation means that developers and designers see less and less of each other.

 

[JingleBells]

The web developers that clients really want are the guys who can design as well. They may not have to do the grunt work, but understanding both speeds things up enormously; this is particularly true in the agency world. I'd take a look at some of the agencies specialising in ecommerce (the Salmons or CSIs of this world), as that would give you a way in through design into Java development. Unlike banks etc. the front-end skills are particularly valuable to them.

Those Salmon experienced hire jobs look interesting, but who the fuck wants to work in Watford

 

[Thadius]

Depends on what you are looking for really.

I now work in the NHS, and they are crying out for good IT people. Yes there are problems, but it's not as bad as you think, there's lots of upgrade work going on (replacing ancient systems with modern stuff), and the work/life balance is good.

Strangely people aren't applying much, I guess they aren't that interested or desperate yet.

Sorry for busting the bubble, but I read in the paper earlier that the NHS want to cut 30 million quids worth of jobbies on the nhs, from the frontline staff to the pen pushers.

Barmy really, seeing as the NHS is a staple for the British way of life

 

[SilverHood]

What industry do you want to work in? I've worked in finance (equity and commodities) for 18 months now as a contractor. I couldn't get my foot in the door due to awful A-levels (was playing DAOC too much), so went with an agency.

Now that I've worked for 2 finance giants, my desmond degree and shit A levels shouldn't matter except for sites that require online forms to be filled in, where they filter your app based on academic performance when you were 17/18. Can always lie on those if you really have to, just come clean in the interview.

The irony is that all the best guys I work with have average degrees and average A levels. The high flyers we interview can't think on their feet and cannot handle the pressure when each minute of downtime gets measured in 6 or 7 figures. (I try not to think about that part ).

What Chilly says about splitting design and development is partially true. I did both when I wrote front ends for the commodity traders, but I was a one man dev shop writing small-medium sized apps. At my current work place, design is handled by the UI team, and development just provide the data, logic and connectivity, regardless of app size.

 

[Overdriven]

This thread is rather good. Gives me an idea for who to harass in October when I start looking for a work year and generally what to expect afterwards.

 

[Chilly]

if you are any good you might be able to get an internship at my place.

 

[Furr]

I've been a bit averse to using agencies, but I may start deciding to trust them.
The most difficult thing is that while I know there are a huge number of jobs that I can do, I have no idea which areas I would thrive in, People I've worked with have commented that I should look at consultancy and entrepreneur "like" areas as it would be the best fit for my type of personality.

It would be high desirable to work in centralish London or easy to reach places from London Bridge / Victoria, if only because it would be quite difficult to get to the more far flung location until I have enough money and security to move to a better location. Salmon does look good but as JingleBells pointed out, Watford! Nearly a 4 hour return commute..

If you pm me the company name Chilly I'll check them out, at the moment I've only applied to 6 companies, I may look at finance as I've had experience working in that environment albeit in the IT end.

I was actually planning to do a MSc at UCL in Financial Systems Engineering this year but my Bro wormed his way onto a prestigious (and pricey) Masters at Warwick, in any case I've applied for next 2010 in case I find over the course of this year that I would prefer to further improve my skills set and do some more studying, although I think I'd probably do the course part time.

I've also setting up a consultation with a careers guidance person at the UOL, their trainees so it's free!

 

[Chilly]

I work at betfair.

 

[Scouse]

Sorry for busting the bubble, but I read in the paper earlier that the NHS want to cut 30 million quids worth of jobbies on the nhs, from the frontline staff to the pen pushers.

Barmy really, seeing as the NHS is a staple for the British way of life

It's the credit crunch m8. We've bailed the banks out so they're safe, now we have to watch as all the smaller services get axed and cut back.

Bankers don't care tho - they're all in BUPA...

As for the IT thang, cold hard cash is the way to go. You may balk at working in the financial sector but if you can whack enough away in 5 years it frees you up to do exactly what you want a little later on

 

[DaGaffer]

I've been a bit averse to using agencies, but I may start deciding to trust them.
The most difficult thing is that while I know there are a huge number of jobs that I can do, I have no idea which areas I would thrive in, People I've worked with have commented that I should look at consultancy and entrepreneur "like" areas as it would be the best fit for my type of personality.

It would be high desirable to work in centralish London or easy to reach places from London Bridge / Victoria, if only because it would be quite difficult to get to the more far flung location until I have enough money and security to move to a better location. Salmon does look good but as JingleBells pointed out, Watford! Nearly a 4 hour return commute..

If you pm me the company name Chilly I'll check them out, at the moment I've only applied to 6 companies, I may look at finance as I've had experience working in that environment albeit in the IT end.

I was actually planning to do a MSc at UCL in Financial Systems Engineering this year but my Bro wormed his way onto a prestigious (and pricey) Masters at Warwick, in any case I've applied for next 2010 in case I find over the course of this year that I would prefer to further improve my skills set and do some more studying, although I think I'd probably do the course part time.

I've also setting up a consultation with a careers guidance person at the UOL, their trainees so it's free!

FYI Salmon are based right next to Watford Junction station. I used to visit them on business from Whyteleafe in Surrey via train in about an hour and twenty (you can get direct from Clapham Junction in less than 40 mins)