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old.=DI=Penry
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Well !!!! - which is it to be ? - who's right ? - who's wrong ?
(americans need not respond)
(americans need not respond)
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Perplex
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- #2
Erm, excuse me. How the fuck can the jews be right? Israel never EXISTED until the middle of the 20th century. Go read a little more about it, and you'll understand the jews have no fucking right there at all.
Post ww2 (1947) the jews cried about having no homeland (because they were basically gypsies). They pulled some piece of shit book out of their arse that said "hey, Palestine belongs to the jews!" and the yanks/brits undid their trousers, bent over, and took jewish cock to the hilt.
They divided Palestine, a country that has been there for over 2000 years, and decided it belonged to the jews and it should be called israel.
Effectively, the US & UK did EXACTLY the same as Saddam Hussien.
The jews have no right whatsoever being there, and the more that die the better. My family is half Palestinian, so any of you cunts that come along spouting bullshit (your idea of politically correct pro-jew gobshite) can quite simply fuck off and comment on a topic you actually know about.
Long reign Hizbullah
Post ww2 (1947) the jews cried about having no homeland (because they were basically gypsies). They pulled some piece of shit book out of their arse that said "hey, Palestine belongs to the jews!" and the yanks/brits undid their trousers, bent over, and took jewish cock to the hilt.
They divided Palestine, a country that has been there for over 2000 years, and decided it belonged to the jews and it should be called israel.
Effectively, the US & UK did EXACTLY the same as Saddam Hussien.
The jews have no right whatsoever being there, and the more that die the better. My family is half Palestinian, so any of you cunts that come along spouting bullshit (your idea of politically correct pro-jew gobshite) can quite simply fuck off and comment on a topic you actually know about.
Long reign Hizbullah
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Ch3tan
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Penry why post a thread in a gaming website, about a religous/racially and whatever the else fuck motivated matter. Its just stupid, rename yourself spoon, and also your original question written as a joke -are u ignoring the fact that people are actually dieing? or are u just -and this is more likely stupid?
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Ono
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- #4
What amazes me is that a lot of this fighting is over differences in religous beliefs. Whether it be Catholics vs Protestants or Jews vs Muslims.
I am sure all these respective religions have peace to all men as the core ideology in their doctrines. It is us, man, that cannot accept this. In which case is it not futile to fight over our beliefs if we have to fight in the first place?
As someone (in a great film) once said "the greatest trick the devil ever pulled off was to convince man he never existed". These wars are started by the devil. He has fooled us into thinking that they are Holy Wars. They are not. Satan is taking us all for a ride and pissing himself as we slaughter our brothers.
Don't fall into his trap.
Go to church/temple and ask your Pastor/Rabbi/Cleric about the true meaning of God. It is not too late.
ps. God loves you for He sent His only Son Jesus to save us - IMHO.
I am sure all these respective religions have peace to all men as the core ideology in their doctrines. It is us, man, that cannot accept this. In which case is it not futile to fight over our beliefs if we have to fight in the first place?
As someone (in a great film) once said "the greatest trick the devil ever pulled off was to convince man he never existed". These wars are started by the devil. He has fooled us into thinking that they are Holy Wars. They are not. Satan is taking us all for a ride and pissing himself as we slaughter our brothers.
Don't fall into his trap.
Go to church/temple and ask your Pastor/Rabbi/Cleric about the true meaning of God. It is not too late.
ps. God loves you for He sent His only Son Jesus to save us - IMHO.
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old.frankie
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- #5
uhuh
Belief in god is just plain stupid anyway!
Name one good thing thats come out of it?
nothing, JACK SHIT
what we have is IRA and all that orange stuff in ireland, the middle east stuff, which is always ongoing...
tis stupid, all over a few differences in god beliefs
I just believe in science and a big sciencey god thing
Belief in god is just plain stupid anyway!
Name one good thing thats come out of it?
nothing, JACK SHIT
what we have is IRA and all that orange stuff in ireland, the middle east stuff, which is always ongoing...
tis stupid, all over a few differences in god beliefs
I just believe in science and a big sciencey god thing
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Nibbler
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- #6
Ooh isn't it lovely that Barrysworld can unite all people of different religous beliefs and opinions, and let them blow each other up in the virtual world instead of the real 1.
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Ono
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- #7
Would it take place on the Iraq map or the Arabstreets map?
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luap
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- #8
If they did they'd be accusing each other of cheating.
Many Easern religions spout that their god is the rightous one and all pretenders are infidels to be expelled and slain.
No one fears an enemy as much as one should fear one's god. <-- Major motivation for people that can't think things trough for themselves.
You've all got it wrong but I'm sure not going to type a religion flame war here.
Many Easern religions spout that their god is the rightous one and all pretenders are infidels to be expelled and slain.
No one fears an enemy as much as one should fear one's god. <-- Major motivation for people that can't think things trough for themselves.
You've all got it wrong but I'm sure not going to type a religion flame war here.
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*Exor*
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- #9
HizBullah, killing Jews since 1971.
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Stazbumpa
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- #10
What about before then? Did the Jewish religion not originate from somewhere called Israel to begin with all those years ago before it was Palestine?
Somehow I don't quite think you are serious or in your right mind.
Take your pick.
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ReActor
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- #11
I have to totally disagree. Most people who read this message board would completely ignore this issue if it wasn't brought up in a forum like this. I mean, how many of us visit the forums of news sites to air our views? Not many, I'd imagine. In the "General" folder, nothing is off-topic. Issues like this need to be raised or all there would just be everyone spamming bullshit and mooing like... well... cows. In a field. And this forum may be green in colour, but I'd rather read about foreign wars, thanks.
As for my opinion on the topic, I'd say that the whole thing was fucked up years ago by those who put the Jews there in the first place. It was a complete mistake, and in fact it reminds me of what the Nazis were going to do in the first place (plonk all the Jews down in Madagascar / send them packing to some wasteland east of the Urals).
Still, that doesn't help the situation now. It's clear that warring isn't solving anything, as always. As far as I can see, the only option is peace, no matter how complex and difficult it may be to reach it. A compromise has to be found.
Shit, that sounds really limp-wristed and liberal, but sorry, that's the only way there is.
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old.Sean Black
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I quite agree Pete, one more thing, about the God thing:
I think it's alright people have a god and shit, but to be honest, the only thing I believe in is the here and now, the zen.
You could walk over the street tomorrow and be killed by a bus, what was the point in 'believing' in god then?
I just enjoy myself right now, think about nothing farther than today and I feel good that way, life's too short.
I think it's alright people have a god and shit, but to be honest, the only thing I believe in is the here and now, the zen.
You could walk over the street tomorrow and be killed by a bus, what was the point in 'believing' in god then?
I just enjoy myself right now, think about nothing farther than today and I feel good that way, life's too short.
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Perplex
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- #13
No, it didn't. As I said, go read up on the subject. As you're patently too lazy to do it yourself, here's a little cut n paste:
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stu
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Just thought I'd put in a few simple facts:
- It's not really about religion, it's about people's homes. In a few generations, it will simply be about the fact that people know how to fight so well, they won't know how not to fight (if you don't understand what I'm talking about, look at Ireland). It was never really about religion, that is just used as a common catchall (again, look at Ireland).
- The simple fact is Israel didn't exist until post WWII. The UK (as Palestine was a British mandate which they failed to protect) and the US (in directly supporting the Jews) were the responsible parties in its creation. I have yet to hear an argument for Israel to exist other than "it's written in the Bible". In which case, one could simply reply with "it's written in the Q'uran" (for any of you that don't know, that's the Holy book of Islam). Why one book should take precendence over another (especially as it's younger) is beyond me. OK, so here is the REAL reason that no-one tells you: the US wanted a strong partner in the middle east, as it recognised the potential threat of the very rich Arab nations to its economic and social dominance. Simple as that.
- The Jews demanded a 'homeland' post WWII. Thing is tho, Judaism is NOT a race. However much they want it to be, and however much people believe it is, it is not. It's a Religion. Religions don't have homelands. Since when was there a Buddism-land, or a Taoism-land, or even a Christianity-land? There isn't. I'm not quite sure what makes the Jews so special. Because, lest you forget, obviously with Israel not existing until about 50 years ago, how can anyone older than that actually be "Israeli"? Israelis are essentially Germans, Russians, Poles, and Eastern Europeans, who wanted to live somewhere else.
- Now, let's look at the kind of things that actually occurred in Palestine/Lebanon/Jordan following the Israeli occupation (I'll call it that because it was essentially an invasion by all but name). People turned up at the Arabs' houses and they were given half an hour to pack their belongings and get out. Their property, land and chattels were seized. Many were sent to ghetto camps (two of which, incidentally were the scenes of the worst massacres since WWII, and that includes the recent 'Ethnic Cleansing' in the Balkans and the atrocities in Afghanistan etc. Oh, and who was responsible for the massacres at Shabra and Shatila? It was Ariel Sharon, Israel's new Prime Minister). Now, someone please explain to me the difference between this, and the way the Jews were treated during WWII. Which was, after all, the entire excuse the Jews gave for the creation of Israel in the first place.
- Finally, you only have to look at the situation over there at the moment to see the issues. Palestinian demonstrators throw rocks at the Israeli police, the Israelis respond with gunships. If there is a bombing on an Israeli military target, the Israelis respond by shelling a Palestinian civilian area, the rationale being that it is the people who are committing the terrorist acts. The Israeli government openly pursues a policy of assassination of Arab diplomats, which is internationally condemned by the UN. One can't help but feel that it's a little one-sided.
Some of the ignorance in this thread truly shocks me. I suppose it shouldn't by now. Some of you should try educating yourselves.
- It's not really about religion, it's about people's homes. In a few generations, it will simply be about the fact that people know how to fight so well, they won't know how not to fight (if you don't understand what I'm talking about, look at Ireland). It was never really about religion, that is just used as a common catchall (again, look at Ireland).
- The simple fact is Israel didn't exist until post WWII. The UK (as Palestine was a British mandate which they failed to protect) and the US (in directly supporting the Jews) were the responsible parties in its creation. I have yet to hear an argument for Israel to exist other than "it's written in the Bible". In which case, one could simply reply with "it's written in the Q'uran" (for any of you that don't know, that's the Holy book of Islam). Why one book should take precendence over another (especially as it's younger) is beyond me. OK, so here is the REAL reason that no-one tells you: the US wanted a strong partner in the middle east, as it recognised the potential threat of the very rich Arab nations to its economic and social dominance. Simple as that.
- The Jews demanded a 'homeland' post WWII. Thing is tho, Judaism is NOT a race. However much they want it to be, and however much people believe it is, it is not. It's a Religion. Religions don't have homelands. Since when was there a Buddism-land, or a Taoism-land, or even a Christianity-land? There isn't. I'm not quite sure what makes the Jews so special. Because, lest you forget, obviously with Israel not existing until about 50 years ago, how can anyone older than that actually be "Israeli"? Israelis are essentially Germans, Russians, Poles, and Eastern Europeans, who wanted to live somewhere else.
- Now, let's look at the kind of things that actually occurred in Palestine/Lebanon/Jordan following the Israeli occupation (I'll call it that because it was essentially an invasion by all but name). People turned up at the Arabs' houses and they were given half an hour to pack their belongings and get out. Their property, land and chattels were seized. Many were sent to ghetto camps (two of which, incidentally were the scenes of the worst massacres since WWII, and that includes the recent 'Ethnic Cleansing' in the Balkans and the atrocities in Afghanistan etc. Oh, and who was responsible for the massacres at Shabra and Shatila? It was Ariel Sharon, Israel's new Prime Minister). Now, someone please explain to me the difference between this, and the way the Jews were treated during WWII. Which was, after all, the entire excuse the Jews gave for the creation of Israel in the first place.
- Finally, you only have to look at the situation over there at the moment to see the issues. Palestinian demonstrators throw rocks at the Israeli police, the Israelis respond with gunships. If there is a bombing on an Israeli military target, the Israelis respond by shelling a Palestinian civilian area, the rationale being that it is the people who are committing the terrorist acts. The Israeli government openly pursues a policy of assassination of Arab diplomats, which is internationally condemned by the UN. One can't help but feel that it's a little one-sided.
Some of the ignorance in this thread truly shocks me. I suppose it shouldn't by now. Some of you should try educating yourselves.
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stu
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- #15
So if I come and take your home, your possessions, your land, throw your family into a labour camp, by tomorrow it will be ok because it's history? Don't talk shit. There are people still out there without homes - it wasn't their grandparents' land that was taken, or their ancestors', it was theirs. Get a fucking clue. Your pathetically ideological statement that "murder is always murder" and "it's a new millenium" shows you really have no concept about what occurs in situations like this, and you will NEVER know what it's like to be given half an hour to close the book on your entire life, so frankly the "live and let live, forgive and forget" crap you come out with is pretty insulting.
No the two students killed the other day weren't a military target, and no I don't agree with what happened. Unfortunately in any guerilla conflict there will always be fringe groups who cause the majority of the "atrocities", there will always be unfortunate civilian casualties, there will always be people who take it too far. What I was stating is that it is INTERNATIONALLY KNOWN AND CONDEMNED that Israel pursue a policy of assassination of diplomatic figures, and that it is INTERNATIONALLY KNOWN AND CONDEMNED that Israel pursues a policy of civilian retribution for terrorist attacks. These are not "freedom fighters" or "terrorists", this is a supposedly legitimate government openly stating that it murders civilians. So before you try and patronise me try and read what I've actually written.
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Stazbumpa
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- #16
hmmm...the base is still religious no matter what other excuses there are. Just like Ireland the Proddy's hate the Cath's and vice versa.
Happens in India / Pakistan too; Sihks vs Hindi.
The problem is that religion fosters a fanatical side to it and when that gets inflamed people start dieing. The other annoying part, and Christianity is a bugger in this department, is that people with beliefs then try and ram rod them down the throat of other people, disregarding the fact that they might not want to listen.
The option of co-existence never enters their tiny little minds because of "my religion is the correct one" syndrome. Also take free speech for example, even when practiced in another country.
For example: Life of Brian; pokes holes in the Christian faith and raises some interesting questions aswell as being a damn good laugh.
The same could be done to the Islamic faith but it isn't because a Fatwa, ordered from the middle east, would be placed on the script writers head.
Is this right? Is anybody dieing right? I get the feelig that god can take care of itself, and is not in need of violence enforced worship or respect.
The prophets; Jesus, Moses, Mohammed, to name a few; had an idea. Different takes, but essentially the same idea.
That idea has been taken and warped to suit the needs of men throughout history. What we have now is nothing like the original idea and as a consequence you belive one thing, I believe another, so lets not get on, lets kill each other instead.
We have to deal with the fucking IRA who are essentially Catholic gunman, although I doubt any of them have been to confession in their putrid lives. All about religion at heart.
On the other hand, hey. What do I care if some nut case straps a bomb to his chest and blows up a few kids in the name of Allah.
Or in the name of Jehova?
The world gets more jaded and cynical as the leaders bicker and act like children and the images of street battles and shootings are flashed across the world.
And the end result will be that nobody fucking cares what happens, as long as it not happing to them.
Happens in India / Pakistan too; Sihks vs Hindi.
The problem is that religion fosters a fanatical side to it and when that gets inflamed people start dieing. The other annoying part, and Christianity is a bugger in this department, is that people with beliefs then try and ram rod them down the throat of other people, disregarding the fact that they might not want to listen.
The option of co-existence never enters their tiny little minds because of "my religion is the correct one" syndrome. Also take free speech for example, even when practiced in another country.
For example: Life of Brian; pokes holes in the Christian faith and raises some interesting questions aswell as being a damn good laugh.
The same could be done to the Islamic faith but it isn't because a Fatwa, ordered from the middle east, would be placed on the script writers head.
Is this right? Is anybody dieing right? I get the feelig that god can take care of itself, and is not in need of violence enforced worship or respect.
The prophets; Jesus, Moses, Mohammed, to name a few; had an idea. Different takes, but essentially the same idea.
That idea has been taken and warped to suit the needs of men throughout history. What we have now is nothing like the original idea and as a consequence you belive one thing, I believe another, so lets not get on, lets kill each other instead.
We have to deal with the fucking IRA who are essentially Catholic gunman, although I doubt any of them have been to confession in their putrid lives. All about religion at heart.
On the other hand, hey. What do I care if some nut case straps a bomb to his chest and blows up a few kids in the name of Allah.
Or in the name of Jehova?
The world gets more jaded and cynical as the leaders bicker and act like children and the images of street battles and shootings are flashed across the world.
And the end result will be that nobody fucking cares what happens, as long as it not happing to them.
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old.frankie
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- #17
Here Here!
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old.frankie
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- #18
that was to stus post on the earlier page...
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Guest
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- #19
Any impartial observer would grant that the Palestinians have 'right' on their side. Unfortunately, they may as well have Mickey Mouse on their side for all the good that will do them.
The Israelis are there, and that's that. They are not going to move, no matter how many palestinians martyr themselves. The very best the Palestinians can hope for is a halt to the Israeli expansion into 'their' lands.
Sympathy toward the Israelis evaporated after the Sabra and Shatila massacres of 1982, carried out with the implicit collusion of the Israeli commanders. Although this wasn't the first, or last, massacre of civilians involving Israelis, it was the most public. It proved that the people 'struggling' to protect their own homeland where, in fact, no different than any other powerful state(one might say this is ironic considering the Jews own experiences during WW2).
The Palestinians cannot beat the Israelis militarily, nor can they engage in dialogue. The Israeli state regards them as 'just arabs', and it doesn't matter how many of them die (except on camera of course). The only country able (maybe) of resolving the solution is now governed by by pro-israeli hawks (USA for you Beano readers!). The rich and powerful arab nations will not go against the USA, who provide their only protection against their own (arab and Israeli) neighbours.
It's a fucked up, immoral situation. In other words, a normal state of affairs for the world.
The Israelis are there, and that's that. They are not going to move, no matter how many palestinians martyr themselves. The very best the Palestinians can hope for is a halt to the Israeli expansion into 'their' lands.
Sympathy toward the Israelis evaporated after the Sabra and Shatila massacres of 1982, carried out with the implicit collusion of the Israeli commanders. Although this wasn't the first, or last, massacre of civilians involving Israelis, it was the most public. It proved that the people 'struggling' to protect their own homeland where, in fact, no different than any other powerful state(one might say this is ironic considering the Jews own experiences during WW2).
The Palestinians cannot beat the Israelis militarily, nor can they engage in dialogue. The Israeli state regards them as 'just arabs', and it doesn't matter how many of them die (except on camera of course). The only country able (maybe) of resolving the solution is now governed by by pro-israeli hawks (USA for you Beano readers!). The rich and powerful arab nations will not go against the USA, who provide their only protection against their own (arab and Israeli) neighbours.
It's a fucked up, immoral situation. In other words, a normal state of affairs for the world.