Is it too difficult for new players?

Siktifil_Pis_Siker

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Messages
55
Today I was reading the WoW forums at some website called, http://forum.paticik.com(turkish), there is also DaoC forums... I saw a post at WoW forums, a guy posted " Why can't I see any Hordes in Battlegrounds" etc, and I replied to him "why dont you guys who really like and play the game for pvp, come over to DAOC" and also said "flame me away :p" . By the way, over 200 people at those forums are playing WoW(since they waited for it, not because they find the game good tbh...) And some of the guys replied there " No you are right m8, I wont flame you, but the problem is, that game is far further difficult for newcomers, items+ml+artis etc ". He just said exactly like that and I kinda translated with my bad english knowledge so sorry about that. I am sure you can understand the problem though... I thought of a idea , which I will give now and maybe itwill sound stupid but hey, I would do it before people leaving gets more than people joining DAOC...

Give newcomers better XP bonus(i know is impossible to script it etc)
Give newcomers easy artis with scrolls like BoS,Sun Shield etc
Make them not to suffer ToA like we did, let them fecking enjoy it...


I know it sounds unfair to the people who are like me, who wasted his most time in TOA doing mls+artis+quests, but hey I would sacrifice my time to get newcomers and new people in game...

So flame me away , that was just my idea, I ofc know my ideas are stupid and kinda impossible but GOA and Mythic could think of something better since they are in the business... I just wanted to show the opinion of a
community.
:cheers:
 

Thorwyn

FH is my second home
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
4,752
pre TOA and pre SI, it took 16+ days /played to level to 50 and do your epics. Now you can ding 50 in 3 days /played and need another 10 days for the rest.

It´s a mmorpg, patience is required and levelling is part of the game. :)
 

Renwind

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Jan 18, 2004
Messages
542
well tbh it is hard for newcommers to lvl but i wouldnt worry to much about the toaing etc since its fun the first time u do it, i enjoyed it in the beginning since everything was new and now u can get mls done really fast compared to how it was like in the beginning when hardly any1 knew anything about ToA
 

Flimgoblin

It's my birthday today!
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
8,324
Siktifil_Pis_Siker said:
Make them not to suffer ToA like we did, let them fecking enjoy it...

they've done a lot to improve ToA since it came out - it's nothing like the bugridden nightmare it once was.

It's still a challenge (well some bits are) and it still takes time, but if you want instant pvp get quake or guild wars ;)

Shame its rep is still that of 1.66. People crying like babies about ToA when it's really not that bad anymore (barring scrolls - some of which is fixed in 1.75) ain't helping anything ;)
 

Siktifil_Pis_Siker

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jun 16, 2005
Messages
55
Thorwyn[B&Q] said:
pre TOA and pre SI, it took 16+ days /played to level to 50 and do your epics. Now you can ding 50 in 3 days /played and need another 10 days for the rest.

It´s a mmorpg, patience is required and levelling is part of the game. :)

I dont think newcomers will have necros to pl them up... or any buffbots till they know the disgusting reality of buffbots. So I take it, we will see more vampiirs :) but maybe more warlocks :flame:
 

Zede

Part of the furniture
Joined
Jan 30, 2004
Messages
3,584
although they will be spread out over weeks/ a few months maybe - in actual played time its a lot quicker to get to L50 ML10 than it is to get to L60 in wow.
 

Flimgoblin

It's my birthday today!
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
8,324
edited your post title as "FAO GOA+Mythic" isn't very informative ;)
 

Flimgoblin

It's my birthday today!
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
8,324
Siktifil_Pis_Siker said:
would be kind, if u've asked before editing...
and if you ask me before you post anything in future I'll make sure to do it.

Feel free to PM me another title if you prefer.
 

Saggy

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
1,237
I would suggest all the newcomers who prefer RvR to wait for an month and play on the non-ToA/buffbot servers in US :cool: Oh, 1.75 scroll changes may sound good on paper but in the reality it made very little difference - in both good and bad ways.
 

Jaem-

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
2,498
Thorwyn[B&Q] said:
It´s a mmorpg, patience is required and levelling is part of the game. :)
Like I say alot, its charactor progression, not many people like doing it for some reason, even tho its a RPG.

If you worked hard for it, you'll value it more in the end.
 

Whicker

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Apr 15, 2004
Messages
2
I played the game extensively for years and only recently came back to it after a long break. Feeling like a newbie I decided to try taking some of the new classes through the beginner quests. I know it's never a popular thing to do but I think Mythic deserve a lot of praise for making the game friendlier for new players, the beginner quests work very well and provide a great introduction to the game. This is helped by the new battlegrounds and the bonus lvls - my 10yr old son got his vampiir to lvl 36 in very little time. Hopefully, it isn't a case of too little too late but from my perspective new players can play and enjoy the game and progress very much quicker than when I first started.

The problem with DAOC and pretty much every other game of its type is that eventually the frustration of feeling that you are not competing on a level playing field with more established players may deter players from staying, certainly for more casual players. This is a problem that is much harder to address in a fair and balanced way - one way of doing it would be for existing established players to be more proactive in assisting new players to progress. I know that some guilds and individuals do this already. I think this sort of approach is everyones interests - after all a multi player game is no fun when the numbers drop away.
 

Lamp

Gold Star Holder!!
Joined
Jan 16, 2005
Messages
22,950
Whicker said:
The problem with DAOC and pretty much every other game of its type is that eventually the frustration of feeling that you are not competing on a level playing field with more established players may deter players from staying, .

:clap:

well said
 

Kalidur

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Oct 14, 2004
Messages
403
Saggy said:
I would suggest all the newcomers who prefer RvR to wait for an month and play on the non-ToA/buffbot servers in US :cool: Oh, 1.75 scroll changes may sound good on paper but in the reality it made very little difference - in both good and bad ways.

I doubt it'll make that big a difference, the BB's maybe now there wont be many solo buffed toons running around (FG's will still be buffed), the TOA+ML stuff in my opinion is just a waste of time.

People moan that they cant just level a toon to 50 and be competative in NF, that wont change, a RR5 toon will walk over a rr1-2 toon, the same way a TOA toon would walk over a non-toa toon.

As for moving over state side, well if u play at ungoldly hours its perfect, if u work/study you'll miss the vast majority of raids, and the bigger RVR battles.
 

Svartmetall

Great Unclean One
Joined
Jan 5, 2004
Messages
2,467
Thorwyn[B&Q] said:
pre TOA and pre SI, it took 16+ days /played to level to 50 and do your epics. Now you can ding 50 in 3 days /played and need another 10 days for the rest.

It´s a mmorpg, patience is required and levelling is part of the game. :)

Yep, it's so easy now with Catacombs practically throwing XP at you wherever you turn...(you have completed the Counting Your Own Legs quest! You receive 100 billion XP!)...and if you want instant gratification, you're playing the wrong kind of game entirely.

If you want insta PvP, play Quake. If you choose to play a MMORPG, don't whine about having to put some time in to get what you want.

...
 

cHodAX

I am a FH squatter
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Messages
19,742
Thorwyn[B&Q] said:
pre TOA and pre SI, it took 16+ days /played to level to 50 and do your epics. Now you can ding 50 in 3 days /played and need another 10 days for the rest.

It´s a mmorpg, patience is required and levelling is part of the game. :)


You cannot do 50 in 3 days played starting from scratch with no money or friends to help out, you are talking absolute bollocks. Instances help alot but the vast majority of newcomers are FORCED to level solo to 50 using crap equipment. 3 days is a figment of your imagintion, using /level 20 and twinking your character it is very doable but you need to look at this through the eyes of a newcomer. All but level 1-5 quests are very newcomer unfriendly and the difficulty is obtaining decent armour is still much harder than it should be. Ideally the class trainer should hand out a full set of armour at levels 10, 20, 30 and 40. It wouldn't effect crafters much at all and it would make the game a damn sight more worthwhile for new player to stick around and actually be properly rewarded for achieving goals.
 

Flimgoblin

It's my birthday today!
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
8,324
chodax have you done any of the catacombs quests? can't see how you'd describe them as "unfriendly"

getting kit _is_ still tricky though - the class trainers give you a new hauberk every 5 levels up to level 25 these days though which improves things, aurulite doesn't really work well for solo as the instance dungeons can be really quite tough - if you have some friends (made in game - e.g. people you meet in the starter guild... or if you join an existing guild) it's a bit better.
 

Shanaia

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,673
Svartmetall said:
you have completed the Counting Your Own Legs quest! You receive 100 billion XP!

Hahahahhaha

God Svart, you're so funny when you're not whining about getting a Co-op server! :wub:

I failed that quest the first couple of times .. it wouldn't accept 3 as the right answer :wanker:
 

cHodAX

I am a FH squatter
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Messages
19,742
Flimgoblin said:
chodax have you done any of the catacombs quests? can't see how you'd describe them as "unfriendly"

getting kit _is_ still tricky though - the class trainers give you a new hauberk every 5 levels up to level 25 these days though which improves things, aurulite doesn't really work well for solo as the instance dungeons can be really quite tough - if you have some friends (made in game - e.g. people you meet in the starter guild... or if you join an existing guild) it's a bit better.

Film I do see your point but those Catacombs quests still leave alot of gaps and they don't deliver anywhere near enough worthwhile items. When you look at how WoW rewards people for quests you see a glaring problem with DAoC implmentation, there are just too many quests that don't give worthwhile items or items suited to indvidual classes. Aurulite armour is pretty decent but having tried to solo the Catacombs instances myself from level 5 I have to admit it takes alot of time just to farm enough to get yourself the most basic of equipment, now that might be bearable for us veterans but for a new player it must seem like hell and the exp rewards whilst doing it are nowhere near upto par with the exp instances. Personally I feel that they need to tweak the Catacombs instances to be more friendly to low level soloers and they really need to up the exp as well.
 

Flimgoblin

It's my birthday today!
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
8,324
actually - given what we went through xping the first time (fights over drops in mithra/keltoi for chainmail) I think the first time user will find the aurulite farming a lot less hellish than us jaded oldies ;) we're used to being able to obliterate reds with ease, dying to yellows is demeaning ... for a newbie it's just par for the course.
 

Phuzzy

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Mar 24, 2005
Messages
53
Most of the new players I've met in the 3 months or so that I've been here didn't really have much trouble levelling to 50, it was what came afterwards which took away their resolve to stay.
 

Deepflame

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jun 16, 2004
Messages
1,440
Today one of the guys I invited into DAoC was complaining about getting killed by, and I quote, "THOSE DAMN BLUES!". Then I went and gave him some gold to buy decent armor. It quickly changed into "THOSE DAMN YELLOWS!".. :)
 

Fana

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
2,181
Deepflame said:
Today one of the guys I invited into DAoC was complaining about getting killed by, and I quote, "THOSE DAMN BLUES!". Then I went and gave him some gold to buy decent armor. It quickly changed into "THOSE DAMN YELLOWS!".. :)

Hehe well yellows are supposed to be hard to solo - yellow means something like "a challenging fight that you have a fair chanse of losing if solo". When i first started the game years ago, and leveled my warrior, i was terrified of yellowcons when out soloing in the wild ^^ But yes, when the gear you can reasonably get isnt enough to let you kill blues without almost dieing then something is wrong imo.
 

Deepflame

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jun 16, 2004
Messages
1,440
Hehe, yeah, I remember that. I never had to solo with my cleric though, levelled him in the golden days..

Gave the guy some buffs while I was crafting, he is happily hacking away at the yellows now. :)
 

TheBinarySurfer

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
May 14, 2004
Messages
2,041
IMO until you have a level 50 on your account or say at least a L40, all mob cash drops and merchant sale values should be *5 or so - this will mean new players can quickly build up their cash and get into the scroll buying/crafting/items market and build up their templates/leveling kit quite fast...

Just a thought...and yes i recognise its open to abuse.
 

TheBinarySurfer

Can't get enough of FH
Joined
May 14, 2004
Messages
2,041
Flimgoblin said:
actually - given what we went through xping the first time (fights over drops in mithra/keltoi for chainmail) I think the first time user will find the aurulite farming a lot less hellish than us jaded oldies ;) we're used to being able to obliterate reds with ease, dying to yellows is demeaning ... for a newbie it's just par for the course.

Christ yeah but in the old days i seem to remember the joy of managing to kill my first orange solo and unbuffed as a L34 ranger...

Then of course it became standard, then the first red, then standard...etc etc :)

Then came buff bots <cry>
 

Raven

Happy Shopper Ray Mears
FH Subscriber
Joined
Dec 27, 2003
Messages
44,617
Flimgoblin said:
they've done a lot to improve ToA since it came out - it's nothing like the bugridden nightmare it once was.

It's still a challenge (well some bits are) and it still takes time, but if you want instant pvp get quake or guild wars ;)

Shame its rep is still that of 1.66. People crying like babies about ToA when it's really not that bad anymore (barring scrolls - some of which is fixed in 1.75) ain't helping anything ;)

have to agree, TOA is a breeze now.

However, for a new guy just starting the game it could be quite a challenge, not knowing anyone, this is the same for all mmo's though if you dont start in the first two or three years its going to be very hard for you to start off with.
 

Gribz0r

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 25, 2003
Messages
84
While Catacombs is a blessing on one hand, it can be a curse too. I mean, the best way to gain xp and levels (if solo, and new people will have to solo a lot) are the task dungeons. But that way, you outgrow your equipment without the chance of dropping replacements. Because task dungeons drop zip, nothing nada. And the gold you earn often isn't enough to keep up with the levelling (keep in mind you get free levels as well).

There is not that much gear on CM's for lvl 1-40 that is reasonably priced. Either because people don't bother putting it on CM's or because they are greedy fucks, or perhaps because after having a few 50s and selling a few scrolls we completely lost touch with reality regarding prices. After all, if we kit out an alt, we couldn't care less a lvl 25 boot is slapped on a CM for 25g. 25g is nothing right?
 

Mr.Brand

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Mar 15, 2004
Messages
47
Gribz0r said:
greedy fucks

Saw a level 25 hauberk at 1 plat a few days ago. Greedy fucks indeed.

If instances were guaranteed to give one piece of reasonable armour,
getting gear wouldn't be so bad for a newbie. An instance may take from
30 to 90 minutes, so it would be about right in reward level. The aurulite
is often not enough for one piece of armour.

(The few times I've seen aurulite for sale, it's been 1 gold apiece. The
salvage value is one tenth of that :/ )
 

cHodAX

I am a FH squatter
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Messages
19,742
Gribz0r said:
There is not that much gear on CM's for lvl 1-40 that is reasonably priced. Either because people don't bother putting it on CM's or because they are greedy fucks, or perhaps because after having a few 50s and selling a few scrolls we completely lost touch with reality regarding prices. After all, if we kit out an alt, we couldn't care less a lvl 25 boot is slapped on a CM for 25g. 25g is nothing right?


The story is a little different story on Prydwen, well at least on Albion. There are lots of reasonably rogs on the merchants there but Hibernia and Midgard Excal are a very different story though. People asking upto and over 2p for rogs with crap stats which is just pure greed and completely prices newcomers out of the game. I think people these days forget how hard it can be starting this game from scratch and trying to make any kind of money that will enable them to properly equip themselves.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom