Is it me or is the Paladin class ridiculously unbalanced?

Discussion in 'Class Discussion' started by Zill, Jun 9, 2005.

  1. Zill

    Zill Can't get enough of FH

    Im a lvl 60 Warrior and my gear is pretty good, although could be better but probably a lot better than someone level 49 lets say. So thinking I'd get an easy fight decided to attack a lvl 49 Paly in Maraudon a short time ago. Not long after I get him down to 15% health, he casts immune and then heals himself to maximum health. We then continue fighting and I get him down to 15 % health and again he casts immune and heals himself to full. I'm on about half hit points at this stage (I'm an axe and shield user, by the way). So, we resume fighting and again when he gets low on health heals himself again to about 80 % health. Staggeringly, he has quite a bit of mana left at this stage I'd say around 40 - 50 %. A minute or has passed up until this point when his mates arrive and finish me off before it ended, so I will never know the outcome of the fight had it just me and him to finish off. It doesn't seem right though - even if I was the suckiest warrior with crap gear - not to defeat a player 11 levels lower than me in a reasonable time limit.

    The thing is paladins seem to be my nemesis. I've had issues with high level paladins for a long time and where they have this, what appears to be, an endless stream of mana, immunes and heals while dishing out tons of damage. I've been in a small group with 3 high level players, all of us over lvl 50, losing to one lvl 60 Paladin who ended the fight with 20 % health and 60 % mana.

    I'm sorry if this seems a case of sour grapes, but if you're playing a paladin there is no skill to your class. None. You're just playing a hybrid warrior/priest unbelievably overpowered.
     
  2. Gat_Decor

    Gat_Decor Fledgling Freddie

    Mana burn for the win, pala with no mana = dead pala

    Oh and you were fighting him for a minute? if he dishes out loads of damage don't you think the fight would have been over quicker?

    I guess you're Horde, cause that's what they all say and tbh Alliance say the same about Shamen.....

    and just to add my 2p why should a lvl 35 rogue be able to sap a lvl 60 priest now that's (to coin a phrase) imba
     
  3. Zill

    Zill Can't get enough of FH

    It seemed longer! I'm taken into consideration at one stage he did a runner before I caught up with him so that added to the duration of the fight (he was probably off trying to build up mana). And in regards to damage dealing, I was speaking generally about paladins, not this guy specifically.
     
  4. Vae

    Vae Resident Freddy

    Paladins dealing damage?! Sorry I'm afraid you must have them confused with another class.

    The stage you'd got to in the fight is that he'd used his 2 immunities for 5 mins and thus had only Lay on Hands to go. He'd have lost but Paladins do have the ability to drag fights out for ages just not cause damage. I half bet he was running retribution aura and that half the damage you suffered was from that. The reason he had mana left is because he was undoubtably running blessing of wisdom and maybe seal of wisdom too to regen mana. Given how much mana Paladin heals take he probably had 1 maybe 2 more heals (while you're hitting him) left from that mana amount unless the timer allowing him a crit heal (which costs no mana if you have illumination too) came back from his last use.

    Once Paladins hit lvl 45+ they are not overpowered at all. In fact for PvP they are probably underpowered because they can't do anything!
     
  5. Xtro

    Xtro Can't get enough of FH

    I can engage a mob in PvE with my paladin and (seriously) go and make a cup of coffee and he'll still be fighting the same mob. They're not overpowered by any means, if they went down a lot quicker just what benefits would they have left in PVP?

    High level paladin friends complain about their lack of ranged attacks etc etc, they dont think they are omnipotent honestly.

    And Gat_Decor is spot on, Shamans piss me right off :)
     
  6. Zill

    Zill Can't get enough of FH

    In the fight with the lvl 60 Paladin, he crit me twice for 512 damage within seconds. I'd say that's pretty good damage against a Lvl 58 warrior with nearly 6000 armour, wouldn't you? And bearing in mind I was the last of three players he was getting around to finishing off. One paladin defeating three high level players hitting him with all they've got, defeating us all AND ending the fight with over half mana left. That doesn't strike me as a class that can't do anything after lvl 45 to me. Of course some may argue that all three of us sucked, I suppose.

    I wish I could believe that paladins being overpowered was a figment of my imagination but unfortunately evidence seems to conclusive that with the right equipment and spec, and from a soloing perspective of a warrior, paladins are practically impossible to beat.
     
  7. Whisperess

    Whisperess Part of the furniture

    Here's a few ideas.

    1. Stun him when he's getting low on life, to prevent shields and heals.

    2. Mortal Strike him, make sure he can't heal up quite as well.

    3. Use a bandage when he pops an invulnerability shield up.

    Edit: (just re-read your post): 4. Drop that shield and use a bloody two-hander.

    He should not win if you just used your abilities properly. It might sound harsh, but you have to think a bit differently against Paladins, that's all really. Just because you can't beat it doesn't mean it's overpowered.

    Oh wait, there were three of you?
     
  8. Vantros of the Delerium

    Vantros of the Delerium Fledgling Freddie

    tbh what it sounds like to me is something very simple.... you suck... nuff said...

    if as a warrior u have probs with a paladin then reroll to something easier.. if u and 3 friends cant do it i suggest u.. uninstall... repackage yer computer and send it back to where you bought it..

    i have played a lvl 60 paladin before and they arent as weak as everyone says, especially when the right players behind it, but against a well played warrior its very tough, unless you even better ofc. From what you have said that Paladin musta been laughing his arse off to meet 3 people of similar lvl that found it impossible to kill him
     
  9. Zill

    Zill Can't get enough of FH

    There's no need to insult me. I appreciate you're probably used to dealing with bad players (aren't we all!) and you're assuming I'm exemplifying your typical skilless, bitter newbie. I don't mind some constructive criticism but please don't patronize me and tell me I should quit and restart an easier class. I chose a warrior because it presented a challenge and wasn't a class that is easy to play. Most Warrior fan websites say warriors need more loving for PvP, so I'm not sure why there's the feeling warriors are supreme in PvP.

    And I never said I was with three friends fighting this paly either. When I said 'group' I meant three people getting together with the objective to help each other and kill this one player. What actually happened was I noticed someone in trouble at the entrance to Western Plaguelands and steamed in to help. Someone else then joined in shortly after. One was a rogue, not sure on the other guy's class, and they were both in early 50s so not the same level. Remember this paly was lvl 60 with a high rank and probably in possession of some pretty good equipment.

    1. I did that. It's a case of initiating it too early or too late. In this case too early, as he came out with a few hps left and cast immune then healed himself.

    2. I don't have Mortal Strike. I'm spec'd in Protection.

    3. Now that was something I could have done. I was overcome with confidence and assurance that I would be the victor. And to be fair I would have been had his mates not turned up.

    I carry a Barbarous Blade with the Fiery enchant. I also have a one handed axe for duel wield so I can change styles. I don't always use a shield in combat but I did in this encounter for the stun and shield bash moves. I'm not saying I did everything perfect in this battle and in hindsight there were things I should have done. Like the encounter with the Lvl 49 guy, you convice yourself it's going to be an easy win so relax more. Let's be fair, I've mentioned two fights I've lost and it seems to indidcate that I'm crap. I would like to point out I've had lots of fights with players my own level and won.

    But anyway, this thread isn't about me and my ability as a player. This thread is about the paladin and whether it is balanced for PvP or not. :)
     
  10. stubbyrulz

    stubbyrulz Fledgling Freddie

    paladins are really annoying to fight though as they seem to be the only people on my server who solo. what tends to happen is i charge the pally get him to low health he shields and then get him to low health he shields again the hee uses lay on hands next time and by the time i get him to low health again some random person is healing him again. it just takes the piss how long they can survive
     
  11. Ctuchik

    Ctuchik FH is my second home

    and he just shields up and poof goes the stun ;)

    same there if he use shield


    yep, that should be quite obvious for most ppl :) problem is tho, if hes using stun on YOU before he shields up there isnt much bandaging u can do, yes i know ppl might concider it a waist to use HoJ when u shield up but its useful to prevent them from healing to. ;)

    and if the opponent is stupid and stand in that pbae DoT spell (cba to remember the name) u only get health for 1 tick if he casts that before shielding up. thats what i did whenever i had a 1v1 fight on my ex paladin, either stunned them before i healed up or casted that pbae DoT. coz in 9 times out of 10 the enemy didnt move out of the spell radius and waisted his bandage.
     
  12. Ctuchik

    Ctuchik FH is my second home


    they are a solo pvp class, more so then any other class (well, shadow priests could fit in that role to but not as heavy as a paladin) it IS a defensive class thats meant to take a whole lot of damage and dealing out little. i'd hate to see the day when all the paladin whiners get their way and gets given a warriors DPS. in a pvp raid there isnt a whole lot a paladin can do for the raid other then cast some semi crappy blessings and try to act as a decoy, (run in shield up and run out while someone else does the damage while everyone is focusing on the unkillable paladin)
     
  13. Whisperess

    Whisperess Part of the furniture

    Fair enough, I'll give you that :)

    I agree with Ctuchik though, Paladin is an awesome solo class. There's no point denying that; but they aren't unbeatable.
     
  14. Spankya

    Spankya Fledgling Freddie

    I was getting a little bored of PvE and my paladin, but now I've PvP'd more in the BG's... I love paladin...

    You are correct in saying that they last a long time... thats for sure. But personally I was shocked by the damage I can deal out... I think the lvl 49 warrior who I fought 1 on 1 got a bit of a surprise when I kicked his butt too ;)

    I have spent alot of time and gold getting uber stuff for my char though which alot of people dont bother doing til lvl 55+ Also carrying round a stack of mana potions comes in handy ;)
     
  15. Cozak

    Cozak Part of the furniture

    You suck :p you let him get to 15% without Executing.
     
  16. Spankya

    Spankya Fledgling Freddie

    I do have to agree with that ^^.

    A lvl 60 warrior should beat the crap out of a lvl49 paladin for a few reasons:

    At lvl60 your gear is going to be alot better because you will have high armour and high dps weapons and the fact that at lvl60 you strive to get all the best kit u can, whereas at lvl49 you'll settle for most stuff that drops from random kills/quest stuff.

    And ofcourse... you're 11 lvls higher!!

    A lvl 60 warrior should be able to kill a paladin without even getting to half health...

    But a lvl60 paladin v a lvl60 warrior... I'd expect the paladin to win hands down.
     
  17. AhoyHoy

    AhoyHoy Fledgling Freddie

    A) You are protection spec: Why are you even trying to PvP?

    B) Barbarous Blade = Hunter weapon, Find a weapon at least spd 3.60, Dreadforge Retaliator for example, or just buy a Reaper.

    C) Fiery enchant on a 2h weapon? ................. Does noone on your server have crusader m8?

    This thread shouldn't be why did a lv49 paladin beat a lv60 Warrior, it should be why did a lv49 paladin beat a lv60 PvEbot. :eek:
     
  18. Lakashnik

    Lakashnik Fledgling Freddie

    This happend about a week ago outside ironforge..
    lvl60pally vs lvl 60 warrior in duel. with no healing or shields allowed just bash em up.
    pally wins with 50% hps left... warrior sucks. hes using a 2.7speed sword and just barely scratches the pally per swing tbh. probably would have done better with a nice reaper ofc.
    same lvl60pally against me as a my 46 warrior. no healing again ofc
    and i manage to get the paladin down to 45% before he killed me which was ofc no surprise. i was using a lvl 44 3.6speed mace. now im not saying im good. but spec and weapons etc do effect warriors alot.
    but watching this other warriro fight i knew what not to do which is in essence stand there and use almost none of my abilitys.
    he didnt use sunder armor, thunderclap, rend hamstring. think he used demo shout once at the start. the rest of his rage was spent doing the odd MS which did almost nothing with the 2.7speed sword. an just wondering am i the only warrior (im the only1 who i have seen do this) use the simple tactic of hamstringing a pally, running off just so i can use intercept on him and get the stun in? 1thing i havent tried yet against a pally is using pummel on them while they'ra shielded. im guessing it doesnt work as shields are totaly immune to everything but i have always 4gotten to try so far, just out of interest does any1 know for sure? would be fun if it did work :p
     
  19. Spankya

    Spankya Fledgling Freddie

    That lvl 60 warrior sounds a bit bad, although maybe they were just testing the paladins power or something... most warriors would use atleast some abilities during a duel ;)

    some warrior tried to pummel me with shield up and he said it didnt work.. and it didnt affect me. AFAIK, shield makes u immune to everything. Hamstring and intercept does work though :) But its such an obvious tactic that I usually just stun them first ;)
     
  20. Fafnir

    Fafnir FH is my second home

    A paladin without their immunity shields would just be a really weak warrior, that can do nice damage once a day when soc do a nice crit.
     
  21. Zill

    Zill Can't get enough of FH

    Did either of you consider the fact I was in defence stance? Thought not. :eek:
     
  22. Zill

    Zill Can't get enough of FH

    I'm trying different things out. Can anyone not comprehend that? Jesus. I've only been spec'd in protection for a couple of weeks. I dare say very soon I'll go Fury and Arms for better PvP but at the moment my gear isn't that uber and protection is good for raids.

    And just to reiterate, I lost to the lvl 49 Paly because his mates turned up. Maybe you should read my posts a little more eh?

    Bloody hell this is hard work. Is anyone viewing this site above the age of 16?
     
  23. Darksword

    Darksword Can't get enough of FH


    didnt u say he had 50% power or something? so he still could have won maybe
     
  24. Vesuvius

    Vesuvius Fledgling Freddie

    your a bad pvp spec, badly equipped and are "trying things out".

    Why do you expect to beat a paladin?

    try n take some ideas from the criticism instead of calling people kids.
    just incase your wondering, i'm 22.

    i dont really understand what your moaning about since you say you only lost cos his mates showed up.
    And fyi, 11 levels, while a heavy advantage is not a sure fire win. when playing priest at 21 i easily ripped a 32 hunter and 35 warlock to bits(seperate fights).

    Dont be cocky is my advice.
    and stay protection until your equipped. just stay in orgri spamming "LFG UBRS" until you've got all your goodies, then you can pwn lowbie paladins to your hearts content.
     
  25. Zill

    Zill Can't get enough of FH

    I never said I was badly equiped. I said it wasn't uber. That doesn't mean it's bad does it? Try reading what I actually said instead of deliberately misquoting me.

    I started this thread because I wanted to hear how other players do against paladins - including warriors with a different talents spec to myself - and those who play paladins to debate whether the class is overpowered for PvP. It was intended to be a light-hearted, good humoured debate. Instead its turned into a flame-fest against me.

    Maybe an admin should close it as it's not getting anywhere.
     
  26. Ctuchik

    Ctuchik FH is my second home


    u dont need a admin or mod to do that. u can close ur own threads.

    oh, and u stayed in 1 stance the entire fight??? o_O
    when i 1v1 pvp i switch stances about 20 times to get the most out of my skills... >.<
     
  27. Lakashnik

    Lakashnik Fledgling Freddie

    the thread name says it all.
    ur saying pallys are totaly unbalanced because u lost to 1.... so every1 here is explaining to u why u lost. ur talents and playstyle.
    now if u had been a well spec'd warrior with amazing gear and played really well and he still managed to beat u. then it would be unbalanced.
    untill then i think u should just suck it up and not complain when people tell you where u went wrong.
     
  28. Zill

    Zill Can't get enough of FH

    Right, so I just need uber gear, uber skills and spec'd right in talents and I will beat every paladin - regardless of their equipment - in every fight. Is that what you're saying? If so, then we can wrap this thread up now and not even bother with any debate at all.
     
  29. Zill

    Zill Can't get enough of FH

    Actually don't bother replying. I'm outta here. Too much hositility on this board.

    Thanks to the few who understood what the thread was about.
     
  30. Whisperess

    Whisperess Part of the furniture

    ...
    Yes, your arguments are strong there.

    You're not debating, you're venting. Don't expect to walk away without a bruise if you whine about another class when obviously you didn't even use half your abilities whereas he used just about everything he had to. (2 * 5 min cooldown shields, blessing/seal/judgement of wisdom to keep the awfully small mana pool up - only thing left would be the 1h cooldown lay on hands as a last resort)

    Point is - never ever try to out-defense a paladin in a 1vs1. (drop defensive stance when you don't have to use it, drop the shield/1h weapon and actively force him to use both his shields in a short amount of time and pop a bandage while he's shielding).

    You were right about one thing though. They are hybrids; and as such are more versatile than any non-hybrid class in a 1vs1. He's half the damage dealer that you can be and half the healer of any non-hybrid healer. To win you have to make one of them go away - focus on forcing him to heal and you'll win easily. (seal of wisdom can only proc when he attacks you, twice of that if he's used his judgement on you)

    There's nothing to debate here, just play smarter. We've given you the tools you need to do it; up to you if you choose to ignore them.
     

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