Is it a general rule

[Simemir]

That if your fighting in the battleground you dont help your realm mates?

2 peeps fighting, so i run over dotted the mid and threw in a lifetap for good measure, the alb says to me " Dont Ever leech in my fights"???

am i missing something here? i have only been in the game for a bit, but i thought the idea was to kill the enemy? and leech what? we only get 1 rp anyway dont we?

isnt it better to have a numerical advantage?

soo many questions, but this pissed me off a little !!

 

[Helme]

People usally want fair fights, were skill(lack of it, equiptment and class) plays a huge role, by 'helping' you destroy for those players(can still do it but..)

 

[[SS]Gamblor]

Listen it's simple ..


it's RvR ( Realm Vs Realm) Not 1 vs 1 .

Don't be abuseive towards anyone who says "Don't leech on my fights"....
just be polite , but dont' waste your own time either

 

[Ballard]

That if your fighting in the battleground you dont help your realm mates?

2 peeps fighting, so i run over dotted the mid and threw in a lifetap for good measure, the alb says to me " Dont Ever leech in my fights"???

am i missing something here? i have only been in the game for a bit, but i thought the idea was to kill the enemy? and leech what? we only get 1 rp anyway dont we?

isnt it better to have a numerical advantage?

soo many questions, but this pissed me off a little !!

If someone was rude like that I would make it a point to /ignore them, then add on every single fight they are involved in. If they politely asked you to wait untill they either lost or won I would consider letting them have their duel and any future ones. Being polite towards ones realm mates goes a long way.

 

[Flimgoblin]

/ignore them and kill every realm enemy they ever go near

oh and tell all your friends to do the same.

the "don't add on me" arseholes really annoy me at times.

 

[Flimgoblin]

People usally want fair fights, were skill(lack of it, equiptment and class) plays a huge role, by 'helping' you destroy for those players(can still do it but..)

If people wanted fair fights they'd not get a SC suit and a buffbot for thidranki

Some people say they want fair fights and 1vs1 duels, some people even mean it.

 

[noblok]

Some people say they want fair fights and 1vs1 duels, some people even mean it.

I like close fights (or 'fair fights' if you want), though I cannot come up with any rational reason for it. I just feel happier when I kill somebody in a close fight then when I totally obliterate him/her or vice versa. So yes, I mean it when I say I prefer even fights, I just enjoy them more then uneven fights. I know this is silly, after all I only push two buttons, there's not really any skill involved. I just play an overpowered class with a decent SC and that's it.
I will however not get angry at people who have a different idea of fun and who like to help me when I'm fighting somebody. They have the possibility to do so, so why shouldn't they if that's what makes them feel good? I will not add on a 'fair' fight though, unless I'm explicitely asked so. Just because I think the so-called 'enemy' is a human being sitting behind his computer as well, who would enjoy killing my realmmate as much as my realmmate would enjoy killing the 'enemy'.

Blokkie, Thane

 

[Flimgoblin]

I like close fights (or 'fair fights' if you want), though I cannot come up with any rational reason for it. I just feel happier when I kill somebody in a close fight then when I totally obliterate him/her or vice versa. So yes, I mean it when I say I prefer even fights, I just enjoy them more then uneven fights. I know this is silly, after all I only push two buttons, there's not really any skill involved. I just play an overpowered class with a decent SC and that's it.
I will however not get angry at people who have a different idea of fun and who like to help me when I'm fighting somebody. They have the possibility to do so, so why shouldn't they if that's what makes them feel good? I will not add on a 'fair' fight though, unless I'm explicitely asked so. Just because I think the so-called 'enemy' is a human being sitting behind his computer as well, who would enjoy killing my realmmate as much as my realmmate would enjoy killing the 'enemy'.

Blokkie, Thane

good attitude really

I think I was a bit harsh in the above probably more than a few that like a fair fight.

A fair fight where there's reasonably even power on either side and it's not obvious from the start who is going to win is great...
(doesn't have to be even numbers - a bonedancer vs 3 people is sometimes lopsided in the BD's favour for example )

there were a few time in Braemar i just put my necro pet on passive and let my groupmates fight it out with the 4 or 5 mids there because it was already in our favour...

Shouldn't bitch at anyone for adding though, nor should you whine at them for not adding unless you were /y'ing or whatever. All down to personal philosophy, and it's their subscription fee

 

[Puppet]

the "don't add on me" arseholes really annoy me at times.

The 'For Arthur' lifetapping dot'ing petspamming dudes really annoy me too at times

In all seriousness (does this word even exist?):

What comes around, goes around. If I ask you politely to try and not 'add' on my fights I expect to get that bit of respect and people try to avoid it.

In the end its a really normal request; and certainly not more silly then running in and starting to ruin fair fights; right ?

 

[Sauruman]

Well, i think realm mates should only help when, they think the realm m8 is loosing, or when the realm m8 is asking for help. I got a 24 sc'ed infil, and its sc'ed coz i don't have buffs, therefore i don't want to /rel a lot If u start fighting someone at rush hours in the middle of mb, don't expect a nice duel :\

 

[Tiki]

2 vs 1 isnt a challenge, and this is what some people want tho doesnt seem u do

 

[Flimgoblin]

The 'For Arthur' lifetapping dot'ing petspamming dudes really annoy me too at times

In all seriousness (does this word even exist?):

What comes around, goes around. If I ask you politely to try and not 'add' on my fights I expect to get that bit of respect and people try to avoid it.

In the end its a really normal request; and certainly not more silly then running in and starting to ruin fair fights; right ?

If you asked politely beforehand I might respect it... however if you go around the bg "claiming" all the targets I'd be pretty miffed

I'd also be annoyed if you just stood by letting me get mullered by a buffbotted stealther just because it looked like it was almost fair

helping your realm mates is the default - that's what you should expect, unless you ask them nicely not to.

(note the difference between that and mouthing off at them post-fight...)

We need a visual indicator for /nohelp

 

[Ronso]

I just want to clarify something ..SC suit is considered unfair ? For a full time bg player ? is a toa template at lvl 50 considered unfair ?

Also buffbots -- granted some other players wouldnt have an account 2 role a lvl 20 bb but most people ( specially in hib ) get buffs from random bbs there - im sure mids and albs go out buffed and scd aswell ..just escaped me how that would have come across as unfair .. I dont mind hibs adding on my caster fights but if my nightshade or my blade master ronso are engaged in one on one combat with an enemy tank of the same con I would prefer it to go ahead with just the two of us ...

If I win I bow ..If I lose I generally receive a bow ..and I like that

 

[Coldbeard]

did I get you right on you saying that having a bb isnt unfair ? Imo it is , shouldnt be able to pay for another account to be able to compete. Being buffed is such a huge advantage and in any unbuffed vs buffed case its like 1 vs 2 . >.<

 

[Flimgoblin]

SCed char vs unSCed char is a big advantage
buffbotted vs unbuffbotted is effectively making it 2vs1 (see below)

2vs1 (assuming equal levels of SC and buffedness) is a huge advantage.

 

[Coldbeard]

sc is a game feature , having the money to pay for two accounts is not ;O

 

[Flimgoblin]

sc is a game feature , having the money to pay for two accounts is not ;O

indeed - I was just pointing out what makes a fair fight

bonedancer vs not bonedancer tends to be unfair too
as does a whole load of other class combinations.

That said: the difference between SCed and twinked out and random crap gear is a lot less than the difference between buffbotted and not.

(at highest levels, SC will get you +75 to +101 on a stat, buffbot will get you +155, level 24 it's more like +36 from SC, +74 from buffs)

if someone's SCed and buffbotted it's probably a fair fight against two or three unbuffed unSCed types...(or more depending on the class)

 

[noblok]

Another note on the use of buffbots being unfair or not:

A fair fight where there's reasonably even power on either side and it's not obvious from the start who is going to win is great...

I agree with this point, it is exacly what I tried to say. I also feel that this implies that in some situations a fight between a buffed and an unbuffed player might be more fair then when both are unbuffed. I don't think buffbots always have to be unfair. I am even glad some people use them, because it makes fights more interesting.

I consider a buffbot as just another way to improve your character. Sure, sometimes a buffbot makes a fair fight unfair, but sometimes it makes an unfair fight a fair one. This is why I don't accept buffs chen I play my thane, thanes are too strong without them already. You should look at the situation and decide for every case individually if it is unfair to use a buffbot. Don't just say that using a buffbot is always unfair. At level 50 a fight between a RR 3 in epic and a RR 8 in a ToA'ed sc is unfair*, does this mean that artifacts and ToA bonuses are unfair? I don't think it does.

As a last point I would just like to say that even if a buffbot makes the fight unfair to my disadvantage I don't think the other player should immediately stop using it. It often happens that you meet more then one enemy in which case the buffbot might make the fight fair again. Also, getting killed is nothing more then a slight annoyance, it doesn't take long at all to get back into the action (getting killed over and over in a short period of time is a different matter though).


Blokkie, Thane





[*] I'm conveniently forgetting warlocks and other overpowered classes, but you get the general idea.

 

[Flimgoblin]

good points there noblok...

for one it's impossible to tell exactly how twinked out/buffed up/whatever your enemy is before you fight them.

It's also part of the fun of RvR that it's very unpredictable - you just don't know what your enemies are going to be like.

If you keep slaughtering the same person over and over it might be a hint to cancel those buffs though but outside of the completely dead bgs there's really too many enemies around and the situation is changing too much to bother with that.

 

[noblok]

Buffbots being a game feature is subject to discussion as well, I had a look in an online dictionary and this is what it came up with.

tr.v. fea·tured, fea·tur·ing, fea·tures
1. To give special attention to; display, publicize, or make prominent.
2. To have or include as a prominent part

Well, I think buffbots are included as a prominent part of the game. They are here and they are here to stay. I won't just stick to the word you used though, that would be a bit cheap, so let me explain my point a bit further.

Buffbots are a part of the game, they are available to anyone, just as spellcraft is. Granted, only to those who wish to pay that little bit more, but so is spellcraft. The difference is that spellcraft is paid for with in-game money (which you acquired by spending a certain amount of time in-game, time which could be spent on a job to earn real-life money), while a buffbot is paid with real-life money. Does this exclude it as a feature and therefore make it unfair? Well, the better your computer is, the less lag you get, the better your performance is. That computer was paid for with real-life money as well.

Another reason to exclude buffbots as a feature would be if they were not allowed by Mythic. I agree, Mythic doesn't openly support the use of buffbots, but I am yet to see a statement from them that they officially distantiate from them. They haven't even tried to make buffbots obsolete, although putting buffs on a range wouldn't be to hard I think.

If you got to here you could ask the question: what about run-through, is that a feature as well? Well, that's what this last paragraph is for. Run-through (ab)uses a slight delay in order to work, whereas a buffbot does not require any bugs or lag to work at all. If the game would run perfectly run-through would be impossible. Run-through is just taking advantage of a flaw in the game, buffbots are not.


Blokkie, Thane

 

[Coldbeard]

Buffbots are a part of the game, they are available to anyone, just as spellcraft is.

Sry but the above statement I find stupid.
Mythic diddn't make buffbots part of the game , people did. Mythic did include Spellcraft in the game , therefore it is a game feature. I don't see why you need that fancy dictionary of yours, just makes you look like trying to act smart. The only thing Mythic/GoA has done is to not prevent people making buffbots.

Well, the better your computer is, the less lag you get

Game requirements is on the box when you buy it , where does it say buffbot needed or available ?

If you got to here you could ask the question: what about run-through, is that a feature as well? Well, that's what this last paragraph is for. Run-through (ab)uses a slight delay in order to work, whereas a buffbot does not require any bugs or lag to work at all. If the game would run perfectly run-through would be impossible. Run-through is just taking advantage of a flaw in the game, buffbots are not.

You compare buffbots to a flaw in the game ? How come. A flaw in the game can be abused by everyone who wants, not everyone can support two accounts/pc to run them both and should your ability to compete ingame have anything to say with your financial status irl ? Of course not.

 

[noblok]

Apologies if my earlier post was a bit harsh, didn't mean to. The dictionary thing was more of an introduction then a real argument, but I see it didn't come across to well. I'm sorry.

The argument of people making buffbots part of the game is well spotted, I tried my best looking for counter-arguments, but I overlooked that one. I actually tried my best to find counter-arguments, because although I can't find a real reason why it's wrong something still doesn't feel right when I'm buffed and beat an unbuffed player. I thank you for bringing that to my attention

On the game requirements: yes, it does say so on the box, but those are the minimum requirements. In some situations (think zerg) my computer cannot handle the game although it fits the minimum requirements, so a better computer will not always be an advantage, but it's an advantage nonetheless.

I compared buffbots to run-through, because I tried to find counter-arguments people could throw at me. I do not approve with run-through, so I included that paragraph to show that I consider them as two different things.

I just wanted to point out that buffbots are a part of the game and that there are reasons to consider them as a feature. I was not trying to attack you, but just showing another side of the issue. My actual vision on the use of buffbots is stated in the other post. I'm just bored and trying to exercise a bit in discussing as a pass-time.

And last but not least:

 

[Ctuchik]

even tho Mythic never said they dont like buffbots, theres a statement in a grab bag (gonna try to dig it out later) that say that they will make buffbots have alot less impact of the game. in the long term i might add. coz as they said. having a HUGE insta nerf to everyone that abuses buffbots (abusing in MY point of view) would probably make them cry and stop paying. and offcourse mythic dont want that. so what they said is this. they will, in a lot of patches to come make slight adjustments towards buffbots and in the end make them not wanted/needed as much as they are now.

 

[Coldbeard]

np Blokkie, your views are fair enough and you sharing your opinions are appreciated

 

[Baldrian]

Personally I admid I use BB's(account from a friend that quit) but I would love not needing to.

But lets say we had no BB's in Thid. That would mean to have buffs you need someone playing a buff class.

Albs: Friar or Cleric. Would be pretty lame playing either if its specced in Enhance, not much fun to play. = No or very little buff for albs.

Mid/Hib: I dont know the buff classes there, but I think you can spec decent so you both have buffs and a playable char?? Some hibs/mids coment on this pls.

For thid I can play a whole day not meeting more that 1 friar and no clerics. I we where all unbuffed it would be great, but since all buffclasses are not equally good to play and spec buffs it would prolly make it even more unequal than all having BB's?

As for nerfing the Buffs, well that would just make the ppl playing these classes for real very unhappy.

I cant say I have a solution for it. I hate BB's and I have one myself. Go figure.

Cant say for hib/mid but playing cleric in Thid is kinda boring, you can heal, thats it. I have grouped with a Cleric once in Thid.
How about Hib/Mid? you have many playing healing classes in Thid?

 

[Coldbeard]

How about Hib/Mid? you have many playing healing classes in Thid?

Not really, even though there is a lot of cave shamans, healers aren't really that common, something I can understand as many people in thid have no idea how playing a healer is and flame/nag on healer in grp if they die for not healing etc. People out of grp even expect to get healed and rezz at any time, even though you explain that you are oop and got a fg to heal and take care off. Apart from that, healer classes can be quite fun in thid actually =)

 

[Ctuchik]

As for nerfing the Buffs, well that would just make the ppl playing these classes for real very unhappy.

that depends on the nerf really.. theres the "good" nerfs and theres the other nerfs

i wouldent mind if my shamans buffs would either be ranged (say 7k-10k units, or on a 20 minute timer (still costing conc tho)...

i mean, they did it to shammys end buff.. costing conc to buff ppl with it and have a 5k range or something silly... so why not do it to all the buffs.

 

[Strega]

2vs1 (assuming equal levels of SC and buffedness) is a huge advantage.

Not always, depends on class/skills


Former thid chars-Ariak/Embra

 

[Flimgoblin]

Not always, depends on class/skills


Former thid chars-Ariak/Embra

2vs1 of the same classes is an advantage

being more skilled is an advantage

having a class that "trumps" the other one is an advantage...

even if you have a char that wins 5vs1s it'll be harder than a 1vs1 - these things all add up was what I meant...
(i.e. that 2vs1 when the 1 is buffed and the 2 not, might well be a fair fight)

 

[LawBringer]

It is nice to duel 1 on 1 to see your char's performance though, was in Thid at around 3am and very few on - Mids and Albs were duelling near MTK - was fun, not pre-arranged just nobody adding to the 1 on 1 fights - a few Hibs turned up aswell so good 3 realm duels.