Internet lawyers in the house?

[Clown]

Fucking mother bitch arse twat.

I put in an order for that camera I said in the imaging thread from www.internetcamerasdirect.co.uk, who I've used before and they were quick and efficient (with no problems from the courier back then). The parcel was sent out for next day delivery on the 30th December, to be delivered on New Year's Eve. And apparently it was. Someone named MURRAY signed for the package at my house. Yeah right.

Anyway, the online tracking thing said that the goods were out for delivery until recently (today?), when it said that the goods have sucessfully been delivered. Which is why I started making proper queries today. I tried contacting the local depot last week, but they never picked up the phone. I gave up after about an hour listening to rubbish phone music.

Today though, as soon as I saw that the status said Successfully Delivered, I phoned the shop. They said that I should call the depot . Oh, God. Punctuation after smilies kill me. Anyway, I couldn't get through as usual, so I called head office, who put me through to customer services, who told me to phone the local depot. Shit. After over an hour on hold to my local depot, I find out that I should contact the senders (the shop), and they should contact their local depot to put in a claim to start the investigations. This should take about a week apparently.

I call the shop, they tell me that I've left it too late. Fuck off. It only just said Successfully Delivered today. As far as they're concerned, it has been signed for at my address since 31st December, and I've left it too late. "It's impossible for the tracking service to only just change recently. It has been like that since 31st December. I don't expect them to accept the claim"

So, err, now what? I'm out of pocket by £400 and there's nothing that can be done? I doubt it, but I don't know any better. I better go knocking around my neighbours houses and see if any of them are called "Murray".

 

[Vae]

The responsibility lies with the shop tbh. They are responsible for getting the camera delivered to you which they have failed to do. In turn they can put in a claim with the delivery service.

I had almost exactly this occur to me. A camera sent to Canon for repair never made it back to me and when I hassled them about it they checked and the response I got was that it was stolen in transit. I guess that could mean someone else signed for it and swiped it (or more likely the delivery driver signed for it and swiped it ).

 

[Deebs]

Firstly,

Ask them for Proof Of Delivery, you want a copy of the delivery sheet that was signed.

Secondly,

Ring your creditcard company and tell them about it. They have a legal right to protect you against fraud and will help you. They should refund you whilst they make noises with people.

I have used internetcamerasdirect in the past and never had a problem. This is one of the pitfalls about courier services, I mean, the van driver can nick stuff and forge a signature and you then up in this mess which you are.

Hope it goes well for you.

 

[GDW]

My advice is as follows:

1. Calm down it WILL get sorted. The power of positive thinking and all that..
2. Find out the name of the person in charge of sales and write him a polite but firm letter explaining the facts. CC the letter to the MD or CEO of the company and send both copies by recorded delivery.
3. You should find that will sort out the problem.

It might take a while and these things are really annoying but it WILL get sorted in the end.

Good Luck

 

[Jarakin]

Your receipt is your contract with the company to deliver that item to you, its is their responsibility to get it to you. And in turn, your local depot has accountability to the shop that contracted them to deliver their product. It was their driver's responsibility to get that item delivered to the correct address and person. If the driver dropped it off at a neighbour's house, the local depot should have record of this, would be an idea to check up on that too. Also as it was signed by someone called Murray, which is not yourself or anyone in your household, you have a good case for small claims court (if it comes to that).

How did you pay for it? If you used a credit card, you can call your credit card company and they'll more than likely refund you the money (Happened to me before and they're good like that).

Anyway, you aren't shit outta luck, at the end of the day there are laws in place to protect the consumer for problems just like this.

 

[Clown]

I'd rather I had the camera, than the refund. It's such a bother, and I don't need it. I don't have a credit card, I used my debit card, so the money is already out of my account.

Who do I ask for proof of delivery? The courier or the shop?

I'll need help writing a letter, if this investigation goes crap.

Arr. Annoying.

 

[GReaper]

I don't have a credit card, I used my debit card, so the money is already out of my account.

Get one, especially if you're buying stuff online worth £400.

Some quick links:

http://banking.yahoo.com/ff010808.html
http://www.khmer.org/us/doc/doc415.htm
http://www.webpronews.com/ebusiness...bitCardvsCreditCardWhatAreTheDifferences.html

You wouldn't be £400 out of pocket if you used a credit card, as they'd remove the charge until its sorted.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Putting a threat to contact Watchdog and Ofcom scares businesses, they get fined heavily. Make the threat in the letter "if this situation is not taken seriously from now on I will not hesitate in contacting Watchdog and Ofcom bodies" etc gently, as to suggest you really don't want to but you will if they don't listen to you.

Works every time for me.

 

[Will]

OFCOM is for phone, TV, and broadband complaints. Watchdog should work though.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Ofcom is for any form of communication. If a company is not responding to your clear calls for help ofcom will provide some help.

 

[tris-]

what we usualy do at work is phone the despatch company who log a signature denial with the couriers. it doesnt take a week (more like 48 hours) and it can never be too late to do it. all the courier does is speaks to the driver on the day and ask them what happend etc. if someone signed at your address, we would also recommend speaking to the police about a possible case of fraud.

 

[Will]

Ofcom is for any form of communication. If a company is not responding to your clear calls for help ofcom will provide some help.

Ofcom is the regulator for the UK communications industries, with responsibilities across television, radio, telecommunications and wireless communications services.

Ofcom exists to further the interests of citizen-consumers as the communications industries enter the digital age.

Nope. Trust me, I speak to them fairly regularly.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

The problem lies in the companies communication, not company policy. You merely threaten Ofcom so that they actually set up a proper communication with you and stop ignoring e-mails/phone calls and refusing to give answers.

Most comapnies are so scared when you mention those two names you won't have to use them. Probably.

 

[Ch3tan]

I had this problem with Richer Sounds years and years ago. They took my side straight away, realised that someone from the courier company had nicked the goods (twice) and sent my goods via a different company and upgraded my stuff for free.

So I wouldn't fret too much, just talk to the shop direct and tell them that the depot are useless.

 

[GDW]

Never, never, never threaten in your first communication. If you do it will be likely to just piss them off and they will likely drag their heals. Be polite but firm if you want the issue resolved quickly.

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Obviously you're always polite. If you're not polite, even if you're totally right you'll get ignored. Seeming as this is no longer his first contact, and has remained polite, I'd say he's entitled to. Also, if you're at the stage when they're not listening to you, state you had to phone them at peak time (opening hours) from a mobile (no landline available) and politely ask to be reimbursed the money you have wasted on hold/being passed from department to department. It may not be much but will help you claim around a fiver back. I've had to do this a couple of times, companies don't seem too unwilling to give you money for phone calls in situations like this, as long as you highlight the fact you have wasted valuable time and money to be given the runaround.

 

[GDW]

Im talking about his first communication in writing to someone that has some clout in the company rather than some sales rep who cant be arsed going through proper procedures or doesnt know the correct procedures.

Id also concentrate most on getting either the camera back or a full refund first before whinging or lying about how much you have spent on contacting the company. This is just my opinion and I speak from experience in these matters. If you need help drafting a letter Id be more than happy to help you.

 

[jaba]

some funny man under the name of murray is posting about a new camera in the imaging forum, join date of today too. oh the hilarity

 

[Tilda]

I agree with GDW, and Swift, if he said he'd used a moblie and peak rates they can a) check their call logs, but also, its fraud.
I'd try ringing both the local depo, the delivery firms HQ, and the place you brough it from again.
Then personally I'd focus on the seller, the delivery firm is likley just contracted to deliver for the seller. Its up to the place you brought it from to get the money off the deliverers.
After you've phoned them again, if they're stilll not being helpful, write them a nice, polite letter explaining what happened. Its also worth explaining that you've phoned the delivery company and they said you were too late, politley explain why its still their problem. (their internet thing didnt update quick enough).
After that letter they should start taking you seriously, sending you claim forms etc, however, if they dont, you could send a similar equally polite letter, with perhaps a subtle hint about ofcom or whatever.
I'd be very hesitant to start threatening straight away when you havent written to them before.

Good luck!

Tilda

 

[Wazzerphuk]

How is it fraud? He has spent money and time trying to resolve an issue he shouldn't have to try and resolve. He has phoned them, he has not lied of this.

Companies know if they do not refund money for phone calls in these circumstances it gives them a VERY bad name.

 

[Tilda]

How is it fraud? He has spent money and time trying to resolve an issue he shouldn't have to try and resolve. He has phoned them, he has not lied of this.

Companies know if they do not refund money for phone calls in these circumstances it gives them a VERY bad name.

Its fraud if he says he had to phone on peak rates on a moblie when infact he called offpeak on a land line.
I have np with him saying that, but i'd worry about getting refund or a new camera first, worry about calls and other expenses after.

 

[kanonfodda]

Just a small note, you may want to check with your bank, I am with Lloyds TSB, and my debit card is protected in a similar way to credit cards, you can make a claim to the bank for the money.

As for the rest, as others have said, be polite but firm to start with, only start to threaten with watchdog etc, if they are not co-operating.

good luck matey, I'm sure it will all work out

 

[Wazzerphuk]

Yes but think before you speak. It's a business, so he would have had to have phoned during peak hours. If he hadn't, they would be closed. I assumed he had phoned from mobile: I did not tell him to lie. Stop trolling.

Clown, do you want to clear it up for the people that can't read posts properly in their own context? Did you phone from a mobile or a landline?

(PS peak time landline costs are not cheap either, he is still entitled to claim money back from these in this case. Consumer rights and all considering the fuckup is not on his part.)

 

[DaGaffer]

Saying you've left it too late is bullshit. Under the Distance Selling Regulations you have 28 days to return a product under any circumstance, so how can they say 'case closed' anyway? You need to talk (politely) to a supervisor, inform your bank (even debit cards sometimes have insurance) and if they won't budge, get onto your local trading standards dept (for internet purchases you deal with the one nearest to your home) and let the shop know you're doing this.

 

[venus]

Is it worth giving trading standards a call? i am not 100% that they can help you with this, but i have called them before with a similar problem and they can be very helpful in pointing you in the right direction. Just be careful what you say and do when speaking to anybody from this company. Also you need to be aware of your legal rights, and you really need to get this information from a reliable source, (no offense meant to anyone on here), so that you know what you are talking about. Also document all of your dealings with the situation so that you can lodge a formal complaint. Dont threaten them, trust me i have tried it and i have also tried contacting watchdog and it only made it worse.

Hope this helps

Good luck

 

[Clown]

Clown, do you want to clear it up for the people that can't read posts properly in their own context? Did you phone from a mobile or a landline?

I used work phone
I can't phone from home because it's either too early or too late. I just don't like being on hold.

The Distance Selling Regulations thing is interesting. I'll have a look at their terms and conditions.

About the missing money. It's not really a concern. I'm not missing it right now, and no doubt I'll get a camera or the money back when this is all sorted. I'm just really pissed off that I have to do all this faffing about now.

 

[Clown]

I should also thank you all for your input so far. Cheers!

 

[WPKenny]

Bugger, wrote a massive reply and it all got lost when I hit Submit.

Basically I had a sirutation where the delivery went astray. Scan were fuck all help, I had to battle it out with the delivery company. After 5 seperate re-delivery dates were not kept by them they admited it had been stolen. Only after I had all this would Scan bother to help and re-send another item.
The delivery company was City Link.

When I used internetcamerasdirect.co.uk before, the delivery guy turned up in an unmarked white van with his girlfriend in the passenger seat. My neighbour was just coming out his front door as the guy approached our house and my "helpful" neighour told the guy he thought we were out. So the guy, not bothering to even ring the bell, took the time to write out a "missed delivery" note and shove it through the letter box. I only heard by shear luck and had to chase the guy down the street.
The delivery company here was also City Link.

The moral of the story? City Link are a bit crap, but if you persevere you should get there in the end, it just might take a while.

 

[Custodian]

City Link's idea of how to deliver my furniture was to leave it propped up against the front of the house so I could find it there when I get home from work :/ They really are crap.

When an order of DVDs (over £200 worth) went missing from play.com, they also initially took the line that as the Post Office had recorded it as delivered it was between me and them to sort out. I went to the local depo, and at first they could not find the signed delivery receipt. However, they were very helpful. They saidthey would keep looking and speak to the delivery guy, and would phone me at work when they had news. The did just that. Having spoken to the delivery guy, found the receipt signed by someone I had never heard of (and not the addressee of course), went back with him to the delivery address, discovered he had delivered it to 85 not 87, recovered it from the scrotes who had signed for summat that was addressed to a different person in a different house, and invited me to come collect it when I could.

So... as the others have said if ya talk to them it may turn out to be a simple mistake. Or, if it has been stolen, they may well help ya more than ya think. It is a big inconvenience, but hopefully will work out.

 

[Utini]

Aye i hate it when shops use shitty courier companies. This is what i think of citylink from personal experience:

I feel that is the most mature and constructive way of putting it.