Inherited Default Losses in TDM

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vGo:Spectre

Guest
I'm a little bit annoyed about the inherited default losses situation in the TDM league. I'm very greatful that we've been allowed to replace another clan this season, and I can appreciate that replays would be a total organisational nightmare and unfair on the clan who showed in the first place, but I do feel that my clan is being unfairly punished for something beyond our control. :(

The 3 points to the other team is fine. The +150 frags to the other team is fine. But to punish us with a starting frag difference of -150 is a tad harsh to say the least. We've had to win our first four games to get our frag difference back near 0, and I can't help thinking that I may be tearing my hair out come end of season if we miss a promotion spot by a few scant frags. :(

Wouldn't it be infintely more fair if clans who inherit default losses don't suffer this nightmarish frag difference? Is it really justifable that a clan should be so harshly punished for something they had nothing to do with?

Help mummy! ;)

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-Nbd-Spectre
Nightbreed clan leader
 
V

vGo:Spectre

Guest
Well you would :rolleyes:

Now stop posting pointless one liners just to get your message count up :p

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-Nbd-Spectre
Nightbreed clan leader
 
V

vGo:Spectre

Guest
You're missing a - u tart :p

btw, welcome to the Nbd clan forum everybody lol :)

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-Nbd-Spectre
Nightbreed clan leader
 
O

old.Deluge

Guest
/me looks at the lack of activity in the irc channel and wonders why we dont talk there :/

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Nbd-Deluge
Nightbreed
 
B

bigfoot

Guest
I understand your points, i'll have a think about maybe altering this although i don't like changing rules when the season is in progress.

Also note that if, when it comes down to promotion, you miss out because of something like this i will make every effort to move you up where there are spaces. In other words, promotion is relative and even if you finish outside of promotion spots you may still find yourself promoted if it is felt you are more suitable for a higher division.
 
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old.Comatosed

Guest
Perhaps consider an alternative to the 150frag default wins as well? Maybe a default win should be awarded the average frag differance for that map, in that division.

Easily done once the leagues go auto-update :)
 
B

bigfoot

Guest
Defaults are usually against weaker clans due to the fact they are often caused by poor organisation on the clans behalf, and typically weaker clans are less organised. Although not always the case, it usually is.

The Score of 75-0 per game reflects this, as that is representative of a reasonably good win margin. Average Scores have their own drawbacks, such as not bein representative of the game which is defaulted more than using a set win total.
 
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old.Deluge

Guest
TBH weve gotta take it and deal with it ...
just a bit frustrating tho that the clan who left us with this default loss didnt realsie that they couldnt play a week earlier

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Nbd-Deluge
Nightbreed
 
V

vGo:Spectre

Guest
Defaults are usually against weaker clans ... The Score of 75-0 per game reflects this

Surely in the case of inherited defaults thats totally irrelevant. The frag difference is being given to the clan who join in, so the fact that the -150 frag difference may have been a reasonably good guestimate result for the clan who defaulted is neither here nor there. The frag difference is not fair on the clan who join in, because they didn't play the game! ;)

And imo the theory falls over anyway, because we replaced SR who, at least at Q2, are a very able clan and more likely defaulted because they were in two minds about Q3. ;)

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-Nbd-Spectre
Nightbreed clan leader
 
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old.QorbeQ

Guest
Spectre: Yer, that's not the point bif was addressing. He was talking to comatosed about the "why 75-per-game" thing.

He answered your question in his other post...

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
I understand your points, i'll have a think about maybe altering this although i don't like changing rules when the season is in progress.
<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Stop confusing me ;)
 
V

vGo:Spectre

Guest
that's not the point bif was addressing

Yeah I know, I was just pointing out that the same frag difference is applied to inherited defaults, when imo the two situations are very different and need different rulings. ;) I pity poor UW in our division who have inherited two -150 defaults! Eeek!

But anyways, I'm just arguing on endlessly, bigfoot says he'll thinking about changing it between seasons and thats fair enough. :)

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-Nbd-Spectre
Nightbreed clan leader
 
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old.Comatosed

Guest
Maybe Bif but the problem isn't so much related to the awarding of the default wins, but rather with the problem of clans then facing the replacements.

Taking for example div2a (ie my clan and yours division), where TS have picked up 2 default wins (6 points and +150 frags) and now sit top table.

The clans TS defaulted against have now been replaced. As such the remaining opponents have to play them (good, nobody likes defaults) but win or lose, the awarded frag dif to TS is above what any other clan is likely to end up with?

Note this is not a dig at TS (as if i'd dare take on the ginger scot massif!), unfortunately they are currently the best example of the possible flaw in the current default awards.

Its a tricky subject, no harm in running over the alternative's though.

[This message has been edited by Comatosed (edited 11 August 2000).]
 
V

vGo:Spectre

Guest
TS have picked up 2 default wins (6 points and +150 frags)

No thats 6 points and +300 frags ;)

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-Nbd-Spectre
Nightbreed clan leader
 
B

bigfoot

Guest
Coma - they haven't been replaced in our division, as there were no suitable replacements. So everybody in Div2a gets 2 default wins this season, it was just unfortunate (read annoying) that they happened to be our opponents in first two weeks.

I'll post a more detailed reply when i have recovered from my trip away a bit more =)

p.s. i'm not ginger thats a slanderous insult and i will see you in court.
 
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