[Infil] Any reason(s) why I shouldn't...

[Adari]

...make a 15/dex 10/str saracen infil, focussing on 50 dw & 50 thrust with dual leggies (heat/cold/energy)?

[As opposed to a slash briton, not as opposed to PA spec, I will never go PA spec!]

Then speak up now!

(Please.)

<3

 

[bigchief]

...make a 15/dex 10/str saracen infil, focussing on 50 dw & 50 thrust with dual leggies (heat/cold/energy)?

[As opposed to a slash briton, not as opposed to PA spec, I will never go PA spec!]

Then speak up now!

(Please.)

<3

well slash dw is silly as utterly no stun. Not going CS spec is even more stupid given the recent changes, 44cs is insane damage on evade chain with the absorb debuffs too ...

thrust lacks decent weapon types and is harder to sc. Most people are going slash now

 

[swords]

Because you are a gimp

 

[Matmardigan]

Because you are a gimp

but a gimp with Malice, i assume

malice > all other current available weapons.

 

[Zephos]

ive been 50 thrust/DW, it sucked imo, less dmg then garotte with any DW styles, go 39-50 CS and less DW imo. for the extra 10% DW chance or whatever, id prefer to be able to PA and BS as its dmg has increased also

 

[SoulFly]

Use the weapon skill calculator to figure out your WS.

I wouldn't make a saracen, cause IF you want to go slash...... you're screwed 8)

 

[SoulFly]

I haven't found it online for a long time, so I'll host it. If the author wants it removed, pm me or leave a message.


http://soulfly.daug.fi/ws.html

If I remember correctly, it gives you 1 skill less WS, so put 1 more in RR or weapon spec.

 

[Vladamir]

I wouldn't make a saracen, cause IF you want to go slash...... you're screwed 8)

Not really, only missing ~20 str difference?. Not enought to totally unr0x your damage Sfm8

 

[SoulFly]

Not really, only missing ~20 str difference?. Not enought to totally unr0x your damage Sfm8

Even the slightest defect makes you feel like crap.

 

[sxx]

44cs ftw

 

[Sharaft]

allrite just go that spec, and we others can keel faster and more with the increased PA and BSII damage!

 

[wittor]

Go Briton no matter what specc you take, if I could do a race respec from Sarac to Briton I would do it
If you go Saracen and wanne go slash after a while, be prepared to take str4

ive been 50 thrust/DW, it sucked imo, less dmg then garotte with any DW styles

Slash is "better" now since the new patch and the changes but anyway why did my DW styles outdamaged garotte ?

 

[Neo]

If luwis can be successfull slash wielders, then why cant Saracens ?

 

[Ezeine]

Thrust isn't that bad after patch. Though it helps to use Sun weaps

Saracens > britons imo!

 

[Moaning Myrtle]

If luwis can be successfull slash wielders, then why cant Saracens ?

Because they're cute. Obviously!

 

[SoulFly]

If luwis can be successfull slash wielders, then why cant Saracens ?

You can be succesfull yes, but the difference here: you don't have any other race to pick from, xept elphs, who suck ass.

A briton will be better than saracen, is the discussion here.

 

[bigchief]

Go Briton no matter what specc you take, if I could do a race respec from Sarac to Briton I would do it
If you go Saracen and wanne go slash after a while, be prepared to take str4



Slash is "better" now since the new patch and the changes but anyway why did my DW styles outdamaged garotte ?

cos garotte has a lower growth rate than AH and the evade chain? Its like the only style that does less dmg than DS for me, all you need to do is start up evade chain or finish garotte/ah combo and dmg should be higher.

 

[SoulFly]

This test is based on these values: Briton/Saracen 15 str & 10 dex in creation, lvl 50, rr1, 50+11 weapon.

Numbers are: base + item /w 26cap + basebuff + specbuff.

I would like to point out that a thrust set with 26 str and 26 dex cap is very very very hard to make, whereas slash sets usually have 26 str and are put together with less effort and less superuber items.

[-----------------------------------------------------------------------]

Briton: Race inherited resists: 5% spirit, 2% crush and 3% slash. 10 more base con and 10 more base str. 20 less base dex.

Slash:
90+101+75+93 = 359 = 1547 ws

Thrust:

Superuber:
90+101+75+93 + 115+101+75+93 = 743/2 = 371.5 = 372 = 1587 ws

More common (round values of 20 str and 20 dex cap):
90+95+75+93 + 115+95+75+93 = 731/2 = 365.5 = 366 = 1569 ws

[-----------------------------------------------------------------------]

Saracen: Race inherited resists: 5% heat, 3% thrust and 2% slash. 20 more base dex, 10 less base strenght and base con.

Slash:
80+101+75+93 = 349 = 1517 ws

Thrust:

Superuber:
80+101+75+93 + 135+101+75+93 = 753/2 = 376.5 = 377 = 1602 ws

More common (round values of 20 str and 20 dex cap):
80+95+75+93 + 135+95+75+93 = 741 = 370.5 = 371 = 1584 ws

This test has an error margin of possible +9* ws (equivalent of +1 skill, calculator based error), otherwise it should be correct.

(*: if the thrust damage stat is rounded down not up: Briton thrust [SU]: 1584 ws, [MC]: 1566 ws. Saracen thrust [SU]: 1599 ws, [MC]: 1581. Possible +9 ws on top of these values is in effect and is not calculated into the values.)

[-----------------------------------------------------------------------]

Also you should take into account that melee damage and style damage bonuses increase your damage output much more than stat caps do. I base my argument on Bigchief's (one of the best, if not the best infiltrator in my book) Statcaps VS Melee\Style bonuses -test (test results: hopefully he will reply to this thread concerning the test and posts his results for all to see). Stat caps help you hit past defenses more and improve your defense against melee attacks.

Conclusion:

Briton VS Saracen WSkill's:

Slash: : 1547 ws : 1517 ws

Thrust: [B/SU] 1587 ws [S/SU] 1602 ws
Thrust: [B/MC] 1569 ws [S/MC] 1584 ws
Thrust: [B/MC] 1566 ws [S/MC] 1581 ws (if ws damage stat rounded down instead of up)

As you can see by yourself, there is a 30 weaponskill difference in favour for the Briton when using slashing and a 15 weaponskill difference in favour for the Saracen when using thrusting weapons.

And now to own my previous posts D): I would choose Saracen to be the race for my infiltrator, not the Briton which I would've chosen before fiddling with this test. Why? Because of the small WS differences between the two and I would be gaining 5% heat and 3% thrust. The crush resists of the Briton is nice versus the crush ability using shadowblades, but to face it, there are more classes that use thrust than crush.

I hope that you enjoyed reading this as much as I enjoyed putting it together and owning my own ass in the process ^~^

-SF

 

[wittor]

cos garotte has a lower growth rate than AH and the evade chain? Its like the only style that does less dmg than DS for me, all you need to do is start up evade chain or finish garotte/ah combo and dmg should be higher.

I know ?
I just said that the guy who I quoted was wrong on the garotte thing

 

[SoulFly]

I just wanted to add that I would make the character with 15 str and 10 con, both races. On an infil it's suicide to put any into dex if you want to go slash some day. Then if you do and you've put 10 in dex, you'll QQ.

 

[Lethul]

briton 15 str 10 con 44 cs winwin, right wittor?

 

[limpit]

all these numbers and figures are making my head hurt

i hope i'm not the only one who rolled an inf to make use of my lightsabre weapons

 

[Darzil]

all these numbers and figures are making my head hurt

i hope i'm not the only one who rolled an inf to make use of my lightsabre weapons

Sorry, Limpit. It's now only allowed to make characters to be Ub3r. Fun isn't allowed.

Darzil

 

[Zephos]

I just wanted to add that I would make the character with 15 str and 10 con, both races. On an infil it's suicide to put any into dex if you want to go slash some day. Then if you do and you've put 10 in dex, you'll QQ.

the damage is so random for infils, sometimes i hit for 150 odd sometimes i hit and crit for 400+.i wouldnt bother QQ about it, just play ur game how u like and ul win some ul lose some. if u have 350 str buffed but could of had 360 if briton, well u do the maths, i dont think u will increase ur dmg significantly, take into account ur RR + slash skill and MoP tbh, its all part of the build up. Its not worth cutting ur wrists about the odd str u missed at creation and race. look at the poor kobold SB's, they are in the same situation and tbh they are as hard as the norse with 20 more str

Also wittor i meant CS styles in general, not just garotte sorry

 

[SoulFly]

to be honest with you, I've never found a hard kobold sb in pvp of daoc. They've always been squishy squishy, don't ask me why. Norse have given atleast some kind of a show (OF)

 

[Appollo]

I love 50 dw/th so much! go 10 dex 15 str imo.

 

[SoulFly]

and if you want to change to slash you fuck yourself in the ass, no idea imo! unless you enjoy that...

Doesn't 50 dw \ thrust sawk now tho ? Atleast so I've heard from people who want to respec out of it.

 

[wittor]

The crush resists of the Briton is nice versus the crush ability using shadowblades, but to face it, there are more classes that use thrust than crush.

Hm you fight more stealthers then some other class. Not alot of people are using LW's anymore so your fine with 26% heat and Infils are weak to crush so I rather have more crush resists.. but thats me.

 

[Zephos]

and if you want to change to slash you fuck yourself in the ass, no idea imo! unless you enjoy that...

Doesn't 50 dw \ thrust sawk now tho ? Atleast so I've heard from people who want to respec out of it.

dont talk too much m8, and dont listen to what everyone says. people are allowed to have a change if they like. goin slash is not that bad, more of a challenge without relying on DF, and usually DF gets purged anyway. Also can use better weapons slash and template is cheaper / easier. i hit most SB's harder then they hit me and im saracen slash, alright amyslash sux dmg but when i use CS styles theres not much difference then thrust dmg.

 

[Jergiot]

And now to own my previous posts D): I would choose Saracen to be the race for my infiltrator, not the Briton which I would've chosen before fiddling with this test. Why? Because of the small WS differences between the two and I would be gaining 5% heat and 3% thrust. The crush resists of the Briton is nice versus the crush ability using shadowblades, but to face it, there are more classes that use thrust than crush.

I hope that you enjoyed reading this as much as I enjoyed putting it together and owning my own ass in the process ^~^

-SF

Since Assasins mostly fight eachother, or other stealthers, there are actually more that use crush dmg on u then thrust. Hunters mostly use leg weaps, same goes for pierce shades. And we all know there are more sbs then pierce shades that actually use pierce dmg weaps. chances are higher that ull be hit with slash/crush dmg.

On to the heat resistance compared to the britons spirit. lets put it this way,
there are more ppl out there that fear matter/spirit weaps over heat/cold. and with recent patch changes, the saracens racial resists are a joke.

with all that said, u should pick the race u wanna play, in the end i doubt the difference is that big. altho, i would rather go from thrust to slash on the briton rather then the saracen.