Important - Radar Accusations

[Flimgoblin]

Do not post radar accusations on this board. Take them to RightNow.

Discussing Radar is OK as long as it's not just spam/flamebait, but keep the names/guild names etc. out of it.

If you believe someone has seriously cheated, the WORST thing you can do is to post on FH. GM's need proof, and if someone sees themselves posted about on FH, they'll either stop, or become far more cautious and thus harder to catch. So please, if you seriously think you see someone cheating, sent it to rightnow, and then keep quiet about it.

Edit for some unimaginative people:
This includes accusations of using other third party cheats and stuff like hiding in walls yadda yadda - post it to RightNow. If it's something that RightNow/GOA are meant to deal with send it to them.

 

[Angara]

Gosh...guess half of the community havent got anything to post then anymore

 

[georgie]

It's obvious that Flim uses radar... No one could die that much unless they knew *exactly* where the enemy were.

 

[Cliccz0r^]

realy dont see the point in why ppl cant post about ppl that they think uses radar - to me it just seems like a way for u to bust u ban counter. btw ? any way we can see it ?

 

[censitempII]

you are not moderating, you are dictating.

a) you closed a post down in RVR forums where someone was posting if one of the RVR classes was balanced. Was a good post typical of this forum before anyone could say anything you close it off (there was no flames in it)

b) Somone remakes the post to continue the discussion you close it off again and ban that person.

c) Somone makes a 3rd post about it and you do nothing. And the 3rd post runs its course and people post their views. (yey)

d) You ban me for putting the name of 3 of the most prolific radar users on my server on a post about radar users. Then make a sticky "afterwards" saying not to name radar users. I will resist the urge to comment about the effectiveness of right now in catching radar users. Actually the worst thing for a radar user is to be named and shamed. And that doesnt break any forum rule.

having you moderate these forums is just causing the relevent posts to RVR issues that people want to talk about get closed off. Already about half the posts on here are becoming gratz threads and the number of good posts that we are interested in is declining.

Perhaps leave this post running to allow people to express their views on what your doing to these boards.

 

[Nuc]

Have said it many times this forum shouldnt be moderated at all before someone starts spamming ALOT like open 10 new threads in a row etc thats really all that should earn you a ban the rest doesnt matter at all..

 

[Nadhia]

GOA does nothing about radar users cause i dont think they even have the tools to check it. The most obvious radar users are still not banned and we cant even speak their names on this forum ? I agree with censi about what he said on naming and shaming, you just giving them a radar free ticket.

stop the useless banning for people speaking their minds and make this a forum where things get actually discussed instead of closed when some cheater might get hurt.

 

[AngelHeal]

well, i think this new rule is wrong.
If u got a picture / littul movie showing clearly he is using radar he must be able to post it ehre imo..

weve gote be hard vs the hibs... eh i mean radar abusers (j/k)

 

[Gear]

I have some nice s/shots of one sorc and a wizard popping in all funny places in emain last night whenever I was unstealthing to rebuff Will put them online in a day or two, and you tell me if you consider those places "normal" to show up! Will also go through the proper channels of course

 

[angrysquirrel]

well, i think this new rule is wrong.
If u got a picture / littul movie showing clearly he is using radar he must be able to post it ehre imo..

weve gote be hard vs the hibs... eh i mean radar abusers (j/k)

its wrong to expect players to police this game, it should be up to goa or mythic and as far as im aware, the only radar users who have been caught has been from player intervention as you said using pics / vids.

now its fun to play with the radar users and unstealth and then stealth and watch them run into you but i dont expect to be the one who has to video it, make the post to rightnow and then be told to stop persecuting people.

while im at it, to not allow people to name and shame suspected radar users is draconian, backwards and not really in the spirit of these forums to discuss aspects of the game. whether i like it or not, its always nice to see peoples thoughts on the game and what they like and dislike - whether its in spanish broken english or just some nob whining about a zerg.

if a radar name and shame thread turns into persecution and breaches FH coc then yeah close it, but i cant understand why you wont let players use this vital tool to discuss it with names.

 

[Vipr]

As far as i can see banning people who openly expressing the views and concerns about an issue that is rvr related, is just another nail in the FH forums. The mods seem to be shutting down thread after thread if its topic is anything else other than a "Gratz Blah Blah on Ding lvl2", etc.

Sooner or later i bet there will be sticky telling us exactly what types of topics we are allowed to make posts about. Stop the dictating, start the moderating and FFS ease your fingers off the ban button.

 

[Rulke]

It's their forum, they can ban whoever they want.

Although I was kinda disappointed there was no whine in my last grats thread

 

[Gordonax]

d) You ban me for putting the name of 3 of the most prolific radar users on my server on a post about radar users. Then make a sticky "afterwards" saying not to name radar users.

The reason for radar accusations being banned is simple: libel law.

If you accuse someone specific of using radar, and they aren't, you are libelling them under UK law. What's more, FreddysHouse is jointly and seperately liable for this libel, because they effectively act as "publisher" of your comments.

While it's unlikely that anyone would ever sue you or FH for libelling them, FH can't take the risk.

 

[angrysquirrel]

The reason for radar accusations being banned is simple: libel law.

If you accuse someone specific of using radar, and they aren't, you are libelling them under UK law. What's more, FreddysHouse is jointly and seperately liable for this libel, because they effectively act as "publisher" of your comments.

While it's unlikely that anyone would ever sue you or FH for libelling them, FH can't take the risk.

do you work for freddys house or was that a generalisation of libel law ignoring subsequent statutory instruments, precedents and alternate court rulings ?

im passionate about this name and shame thing tbh, so im curious!

 

[Flimgoblin]

it's not so much a libel thing as an in-game reputation thing...

Accusing people of radar on FH does two things:

1. encourages more people to use radar because "everyone is using it"

2. smears the name of innocent people when people get it wrong - sure there's radar users out there and you might be right when you post it.

If you're right - it does nothing to stop them radaring.
If you're wrong you've smeared the reputation of someone innocent.

Censi - you should know better, hence a 1-day ban. It's only been increased because you insist on creating alt accounts and posting - if you wish to discuss a banning you can PM moderators, not just post more of the same thing that got you banned.

The post I closed down was "Just a question about savages? where it was asked of people to post only yes or no - don't post any discussions, just yes or no" - that's a postfarm not a discussion. It was locked. Aloca posted exactly the same thing, that's taking the piss.

Someone later posted "give reasons why you like savages" - that's a discussion thread, that gets to live.

Now I don't have to justify myself to you, but I thought I'd give people an explanation incase the blindingly obvious nature of the lockings wasn't clear.

 

[Cliccz0r^]

what about gratz threads then ? from post 2 that is nothing but post farming also ?

 

[Flimgoblin]

what about gratz threads then ? from post 2 that is nothing but post farming also ?

They're allowed. I'm not a fan of them but they're allowed. Incidentally anything other than saying grats in a grats thread probably counts as postfarming/spam and could get your postcount reset or whatever.

 

[Ogen]

1. encourages more people to use radar because "everyone is using it"

2. smears the name of innocent people when people get it wrong - sure there's radar users out there and you might be right when you post it.

If you're right - it does nothing to stop them radaring.

That makes me wonder tbh .. you got the name, you can see the movie and base your choise from it, and then you could do something about it?
I mean, isnt that a part of your job?

 

[Flimgoblin]

That makes me wonder tbh .. you got the name, you can see the movie and base your choise from it, and then you could do something about it?
I mean, isnt that a part of your job?

erm I'm a mod on FH - I've nowt to do with GOA.
All I could do is stop suspected radar users from posting - which would be about as relevant as a newspaper shop refusing to sell ice cream to suspected murderers.

 

[UKM_Thorgrim]

realy dont see the point in why ppl cant post about ppl that they think uses radar - to me it just seems like a way for u to bust u ban counter. btw ? any way we can see it ?

Don't Ever give this Guy Cliccz0r any details of your name e-mail, com's ip address.

HE IS A HACKER. SEEN HIM doing it loads of times.

 

[UKM_Thorgrim]

Don't Ever give this Guy Cliccz0r any details of your name e-mail, com's ip address.

HE IS A HACKER. SEEN HIM doing it loads of times.

Its as easy as that to Accuse.. NOW PROVE. it the rest of the community will shun you ..

..

Sorry m8 just wanted to prove a point..

This is not the place Let GOA or Mythic deal with it that way Freddy don't get into shit ... with people accusing people of shit they aint doing..

 

[Gordonax]

do you work for freddys house or was that a generalisation of libel law ignoring subsequent statutory instruments, precedents and alternate court rulings ?

im passionate about this name and shame thing tbh, so im curious!

I don't work for FH, but I'm trained in libel law (I'm a journalist irl, and used to edit a magazine, so libel was kind of my business! ). The most recent case involving forums was when George Robertson (NATO secretary general) won a pay out from a Scottish news paper over comments made by someone posting on their message board (details at http://media.guardian.co.uk/site/story/0,14173,1301108,00.html). There's plenty of clear precedent on this.

 

[angrysquirrel]

this has gone totally off topic.

flim has elaborated on his feelings, everyone else has made theirs despite what we agree and disagree with.

on a more positive note NF will be the first small step towards making this game more fun and fair !

(as a by the by, why not just install radar into the game except for stealthers like planetside..even playing field and what not)

clicc does hack btw.

 

[Marc]

this has gone totally off topic.

flim has elaborated on his feelings, everyone else has made theirs despite what we agree and disagree with.

on a more positive note NF will be the first small step towards making this game more fun and fair !

(as a by the by, why not just install radar into the game except for stealthers like planetside..even playing field and what not)

clicc does hack btw.

Because you googled a load of law jargon but to your dismay, Gordons got it in all his head?

Classic

 

[angrysquirrel]

Because you googled a load of law jargon but to your dismay, Gordons got it in all his head?

Classic

no i deal a lot with lawyers at work and if there is one thing that any lawyer will tell you, one lawyers opinion is his own, rarely right and always proven wrong in court

 

[Gordonax]

Because you googled a load of law jargon but to your dismay, Gordons got it in all his head?

Classic

I only got threatened with a libel case once, and although I got away with it (I was in the wrong but thankfully they really didn't know what they were talking about) it tends to stick in your head

 

[Herjulf]

Kinda like when i run and wipe stealthzergs with my gank posse.
SH SB driving and fills grp with stealther gankhorny comrades.
Each time i get whines of ppl that have "friends" in midgard with PM´s that they are gonna rightnow me for using radar.
All i can do is tell em to do that because i feel quite safe.

Then posting it here only creates rumours, on loose grounds at best.

if you suspect someone of radar make a fraps movie or smt if it clearly shows what you suspect. And give goa a link to it (rightnow).

I personally would not say no to see movies where people reveal radar users though ^^.
i remember this one insta classic one with a minstrel fishing a hib grp was quite entertaining.
Might be cool if they were posted in a movie thread somewhere.

But pointing fingers at people infront of everyone on loose grounds is teh sux.

What if the people u point out try hard in being a good rvr grp/people and all they get in return is slander.

kinda like me putting up a poster on your local supermarket with a picture of you with name etc accusing you of being a pedophile, because you are good with kids.

 

[Divinia]

Yes I really think The owner of these forums can get busted for trashtalkin someone when there's been posted shit about a ingame character..

 

[Nuked]

as if anyones actual opinions are taken into account on FH very rarely if at all do i see people say .. wow maybe he has a point, i'll change my view!

some threads may just say give a yes or a no, but you'll still get people who actually give an honest opinion in that thread. Making a thread that says "<insert name> uses radar." is 1 thing, people who come here with a good case to name and shame (fraps etc) should have a chance. a Name and shame on FH is worth far more then a 3day ban from rightnow. It's no worse then threads naming a shaming people who take artifacts from under someone elses nose, Maybe not in GoA's eyes but i'd probably say, stealing artifacts in the community is disaproved of more then radar at the moment.

innocent till proven guilty i say, and nothing is stopping the person(s) in question defending themselves

(excuse the spelling, i need to sleep)
~_~

 

[Flimgoblin]

what exactly do you think that naming and shaming someone on FH for suspected radar would achieve?

artifact encounters are different - generally the proof is in the post, the accused talks back and people say "bah you didn't have any right to the artifact in the first place"

radar accusations are "XXX uses radar! narf!" with no comeback from the person accused (all they can say is "erm no, I don't, wtf you talking about" which really won't do anything to save face) - it's entirely hearsay.

Oh and you can probably stage a video to accuse someone of radar - don't imagine anyone has yet, but keep them off here as well (though I've seen one video which was "incontrovertible proof" of someone running up a hill... so convincing)

All that accusing people of radar on here does is slander innocent people since even if they are guilty posting here won't change anything.