Immegrants are good for the country.

[throdgrain]

No, really, they are!
Just as I was saying not so long ago. And meanwhile we bulldoze over the south east of England to provide homes for people who on the whole couldnt care less about our countryside.

 

[Trem]

Not to mention the extra strain on other things like hospitals etc.

Worry not chum, Labour always know best :/

 

[throdgrain]

You know Trem, I dont think they do

 

[ECA]

Lolbour.

Whiter than White. ( They were talking about tony's teeth, not sleeze...honest guv ).
Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime. ( lol ).

 

[ECA]

Its a shame we cant insert music into posts, or I'd make "It can only get better" to play to this one

 

[DaGaffer]

Sorry, but that article screams "excuse to put up council tax" to me; the migrants it refers to are working, NI-paying migrants. It claims to have 'not accounted for them , or their families', but how is that different to me coming down from the North to work in London? These people are not suddenly occupying new addresses that didn't exist before, so they're almost certainly occupying the space used by previous council tax payers. Its a load of arse hidden behind a Daily Mail Reader-baiting headline.

 

[throdgrain]

You dont think theres an extra strain on anything then? You think that the fact they're paying £14 a week national insurance makes it ok?
Get a grip mate
And for gods sake, why do people always say its the daily mail whenever its something they dont agree with??

 

[Trem]

Its a shame we cant insert music into posts, or I'd make "It can only get better" to play to this one

I have never seen you, we know this, but......I had a dream last night and you were in it. It wasn't a bumming dream or owt like that, I was helping you fill a really big cardboard box up for the bin men to take.

Hmmmm.



*fap*

 

[Damini]

I read The Daily Mail.

Should I be frothing at the mouth or something? Or poking immigrants with a shoe? Let me know, and I'll get on it ASAP.

Anyway, you can't discuss this, you racist pigs. Unless that's no longer the reason given for stifling free speech and suppressing debate. I lose track of the reasons why we're not allowed opinions on things anymore.

Every community has a maximum capacity before vast investment is needed in order to build new hospitals/roads/schools/nurseries/doctor's surgeries. When you just nudge over the edge, the outlay is going to be far more expensive than any money brought in by NI/tax contributions will cover, especially as the vast majority of immigrants are bought in to replace the working class that Labour can no longer rely on for the vote, so they are exceedingly unlikely to be the highest contributors to tax. Labour haven't accounted for them because it's never been in their best interests to do so.

My real bug bear with immigration is the fact that Labour have reduced lives on a massive scale to tawdry little back door secrets, and allowed forced labour/prostitution and human slavery to flourish - to the stage that nobody is even shocked by it anymore. Three people crammed to a single bed, twenty to a house, working for practically nothing, not even a blip on the paper work of some civil servant, nobody to even realise if they were to vanish off the face of the planet. Labour have allowed human slavery to take place in England, and I don't know whether it's worse that they don't give a shit, or the fact that most of us don't anymore.

 

[DaGaffer]

You dont think theres an extra strain on anything then? You think that the fact they're paying £14 a week national insurance makes it ok?
Get a grip mate
And for gods sake, why do people always say its the daily mail whenever its something they dont agree with??

You're missing the point; its not that they're only paying £14 NI, its that they're paying NI at all. These people are in the system, doing jobs that no-one else wants to do, take them away and you simply move the 'strain on the system' somewhere else. The fact is, any claim that these people put up Council Tax is an excuse to hide their spiralling cost fuckups, which are caused by bad management more than anything else. How many times do the incompetent twats in Local and National Government have to come up with a reason to raise costs before you get wise to what they're up to? I said Daily Mail for a good reason; it is a headline that plays to prejudice (and please don't deny the Daily Mail's raison d'etre), and for a large number of floating voters, there's a good chance they won't blame the government for being idiots, they'll blame the immigrants.

As for all the stuff Damini refers to, her points are valid, but that's not what this article is about; illegals aren't on the system and don't use the resources (much). All the stuff in this article is about people who should already be accounted for, and as I said, they're not occupying new space.

 

[Damini]

How are they not occupying new space? New houses are being built all the time down South. You should see Canterbury, they're even building houses in old parking spaces, no lie. There are whole new estates being built here by the second. I don't know whether this is driven by immigration, or some flood away from the north, or by some secret baby boom, by it's certainly showing that things are not just maintaining the same levels.

 

[Tom]

Its worth remembering that for x immigrants to this country, 0.5*x emigrants leave this country.

 

[Damini]

All such figures are meaningless, until they actually bother to keep/maintain these records and now that will be a bit like shutting the stable door after Eastern Europe has bolted. Which is why all this is so emotive, because people have to rely on what they see, and what they read, rather than the truth (which can no longer be ascertained).

 

[DaGaffer]

How are they not occupying new space? New houses are being built all the time down South. You should see Canterbury, they're even building houses in old parking spaces, no lie. There are whole new estates being built here by the second. I don't know whether this is driven by immigration, or some flood away from the north, or by some secret baby boom, by it's certainly showing that things are not just maintaining the same levels.

You've partly answered your own question; house building in the south is driven by all us Northerners moving down, and far more importantly, the growth in single occupancy households (easily the biggest single driver of housebuilding). Immigrants tend to live in urban areas and don't tend to occupy new houses or council houses. If you're going to blame anything for the South-East being paved over, blame the collapse of the nuclear family.

 

[throdgrain]

Funny how the people who know best about immigration are always the ones who dont live in the south east.
And people who tell you that we're not concreteing over eveything dont live in the south east either.
If they did, they'd know what they were fucking talking about.

All such figures are meaningless, until they actually bother to keep/maintain these records and now that will be a bit like shutting the stable door after Eastern Europe has bolted. Which is why all this is so emotive, because people have to rely on what they see, and what they read, rather than the truth (which can no longer be ascertained).

Exactly. We know what we see, not whats written on a website, or written in the papers. Its here in front of us.

 

[throdgrain]

Its worth remembering that for x immigrants to this country, 0.5*x emigrants leave this country.

And thats a good thing is it? I dont think it is.

 

[DaGaffer]

Funny how the people who know best about immigration are always the ones who dont live in the south east.
And people who tell you that we're not concreteing over eveything dont live in the south east either.
If they did, they'd know what they were fucking talking about.



Exactly. We know what we see, not whats written on a website, or written in the papers. Its here in front of us.

I live in London, I see more immigrants in ten minutes than most of the rest of the country see in a month. So what? None of that matters, what matters is that immigrants are a convienient scapegoat for wider structural problems; just like they've always been. The only difference between now and fifty years ago is that a lot of the immigrants that everyone gets so worked up about will actually go back once they've earned a bit of cash.

 

[throdgrain]

Note also we are one of the 3 countries in the EU to allow open immigration, all the other countrys have restricted it. Most people dont hate foreigners. I dont.
What I hate is seeing the country I live in bring turned into one big block of flats with a multi-story carpark behind it.

 

[Damini]

You've partly answered your own question; house building in the south is driven by all us Northerners moving down, and far more importantly, the growth in single occupancy households (easily the biggest single driver of housebuilding). Immigrants tend to live in urban areas and don't tend to occupy new houses or council houses. If you're going to blame anything for the South-East being paved over, blame the collapse of the nuclear family.

If they don't occupy new houses, then what happened to the people that used to live there? Just because you get in on the bottom rung of the property ladder, doesn't mean you have no effect on it.

To be honest, I very rarely hear any northern accents, and I frequently hear East European ones. My sister advertised a room in her house to rent, and only one english person phoned up, compared to roughly twenty foreign people. Maybe this is fluke, but since nobody keeps accurate statistics, you derive opinion from experience. I'm not blaming, I'm not raving, I bear no malice at all to immigrants - it's human nature to want a better environment. I'm just saying that it does have an impact - it has to. Cause and effect. Same as having a university in a town has an impact, because of the number of extra people that move there. However, universities stay a safe subject, and with a stable effect, whilst immigration has become such a loaded one.

 

[Furr]

Meh, don't care, from an economic standpoint, these immigrants are the reason our country has had better than expected growth. More productivity for lower wages.

Its not the immigrants fault that gas, water, electricity, petrol and tax's are going up. Its not their fault that the south east has had chronic under investment for the last 9 years, Its not their fault that the UK is in its worst ever trade deficiet or thousands of families have had their lives made worse from tax credits.

The Uk is in trouble, we've built an economy on over inflated house prices. People are buying and living on loans, mortgages, credit cards, car hire purchases etc etc all being bought against the values of homes that are over priced... its going to end in tears... badly

 

[ECA]

I like immigrants, they are tasty in my Mcdonalds McNuggets.

 

[Ormorof]

i live in the south-east of england and im an immigrant... does that make me evil?

 

[Damini]

Oh, absolutely. Pure, smouldering, lazers from the eyes, shoot Bambi's Mum, evil.

 

[Tom]

The answer is simple. Move up to the North, or *shock* God's Country (we don't want you southern poofters in Lancashire thanks)

 

[DaGaffer]

If they don't occupy new houses, then what happened to the people that used to live there? Just because you get in on the bottom rung of the property ladder, doesn't mean you have no effect on it.

To be honest, I very rarely hear any northern accents, and I frequently hear East European ones. My sister advertised a room in her house to rent, and only one english person phoned up, compared to roughly twenty foreign people. Maybe this is fluke, but since nobody keeps accurate statistics, you derive opinion from experience. I'm not blaming, I'm not raving, I bear no malice at all to immigrants - it's human nature to want a better environment. I'm just saying that it does have an impact - it has to. Cause and effect. Same as having a university in a town has an impact, because of the number of extra people that move there. However, universities stay a safe subject, and with a stable effect, whilst immigration has become such a loaded one.

The people who used to live there are all moving to the suburbs because they can't afford the house prices in the cities. They're the ones occupying all your new houses, and more often than not, a single person who had a one or two bed flat in the City is occupying a 3-4 bed house in the suburbs. That's the difference; people used to move out as families, now they move out on their own. But no government is going to tell people they should be getting married, co-habiting and having kids (despite the fact they seem only too happy to tell us what to do in pretty much every other aspect of our lives), and the cult of property ownership is woven in to UK culture now, because for most people, their house is part of their pension.

As for paving over the South-East; you can blame one man for that; there was and is plenty of brownfield land available before we even had to touch greenbelt.

And like I said, all those Eastern European accents you hear? Most of them are here to get some money together and then they'll be on their way home; they're a benefit not a burden. It also amuses me that no-one criticises hundreds of thousands of Aussies, Kiwis and South Africans for doing exactly the same thing. Could it be that we don't regard them as 'foreign'?

 

[Damini]

I never said I viewed them as a burden. It seems to be an assumption that if you say immigration without restrictions will have an impact that isn't always for the good, then you also assume that all immigrants are bludgers, that you see them as "taking our jobs", paving over our countryside, blah blah blah. The nationalities are irrelevent, it's simply people en masse. Hence comparing it to having universities in a town.

 

[Ch3tan]

stuff

What Furr said, I am all for tighter control on illegal immigration, but the legal ones are actually keeping the country running.

 

[throdgrain]

The country is too small for endless people to come here.

 

[Tom]

Thats a very southern perspective Throd, past Carlisle theres fuck all.

 

[Furr]

Yeh Scotland, Wales and the north are pretty much devoid of people... (in comparison to the SE)