If we get another erection soon...

[nath]

What if it were a one time only amnesty - that should prevent an influx.

 

[Ch3tan]

You clearly have not read what the lib dems are proposing chipper. It's not a blanket amnesty, and it was a very sensible solution. Offer amnesty to illegal immigrants that have been here for at least 10 years (I think that was the timeframe).

It would be near impossible to find them and deport them, and cost more than simply collecting taxes from them and giving them access to the benefits system.

This in combination with tougher border controls and a clearer, limited legal immigration program would help. We also need to toughen up the student visa issue, Labour made a half arsed move in this direction to gain extra votes but it needs looking at properly.

You sound like a typical tory voter by the way chipper.

 

[chipper]

What would you do instead? As it stands, illegal immigrants are here and not paying tax...

and how many of those immigrants are getting paid minimum wage etc how many are in a position to pay tax hell alot of these immigrants live in shops they work in or factories etc.

once they are all in the open how many will become unemployed because they arent as profitable to support anymore. and then does it fall to us to support them? its a massively complex issue and i dont think its gonna get sorted any time soon but i liked the idea that labour were planning on introducing a points system the likes of which australia uses and is quite succesful

 

[rynnor]

The experience of all other countries shows that once you do one amnesty for illegals you end up doing them repeatedly.

Worse you get more going legal in the later rounds as they realise the country is a soft touch and flock to it.

It would mean giving up even the pretense of Immigration controls tbh.

 

[chipper]

What if it were a one time only amnesty - that should prevent an influx.

could work but it would have to be implemented very quickly with very little warning and have a very short time limit in which the amnesty was on offer. the potential for it to blow up in cameron and cleggs face tho is huge.

the student visa issue is a massive problem which needs reforming it makes the uk alot of money but at the same time it lets alot of wasters through the doors.

 

[Ch3tan]

I very much doubt the amnesty will be part of any deal though chipper, the tories just wouldn't be able to stomach it. The one good thing is that both parties do want to do something about immigration, although it's a bit funny that the tories think they can do anything about EU immigration.

 

[Grits]

This in combination with tougher border controls

Pardon my ignorance of your border controls, but dont you live on an island? I do not mean that as a troll. Are you speaking of border control in the sense of screening at entry points and more through tracking once there or do you actually have people coming across illegally in boats and such?

I also found it amusing reading that the reason people are joining the BNP is because of poor social conditions, not legitimate disagreements with policy that caused said conditions. I am not saying I agree with BNP, I dont think its accurate to call them far right, they sound like Nationalist Socialists to me. Yes, I am a Yank, but I follow Brit politics too.

 

[Ch3tan]

Pardon my ignorance of your border controls, but dont you live on an island? I do not mean that as a troll. Are you speaking of border control in the sense of screening at entry points and more through tracking once there or do you actually have people coming across illegally in boats and such?

I also found it amusing reading that the reason people are joining the BNP is because of poor social conditions, not legitimate disagreements with policy that caused said conditions. I am not saying I agree with BNP, I dont think its accurate to call them far right, they sound like Nationalist Socialists to me. Yes, I am a Yank, but I follow Brit politics too.

Under our glorious old leader Brown, we lost control of the ability to count people in and out of the country.

Our problem is that we let people in and can't send them anywhere. Immigration moves west across Europe and ends with us. Hey! Maybe we should send them on to you guys??

 

[Deebs]

Pardon my ignorance of your border controls, but dont you live on an island? I do not mean that as a troll. Are you speaking of border control in the sense of screening at entry points and more through tracking once there or do you actually have people coming across illegally in boats and such?

I also found it amusing reading that the reason people are joining the BNP is because of poor social conditions, not legitimate disagreements with policy that caused said conditions. I am not saying I agree with BNP, I dont think its accurate to call them far right, they sound like Nationalist Socialists to me. Yes, I am a Yank, but I follow Brit politics too.

Grits we are an island but those French fuckers allow any illegal immigrant access to the UK which is why we now have a base on French soil to screen. (for the tunnel at least).

I'm not racist by any means, my best ever friend of 30 years is foreign and my Father was an immigrant to this country (through legal means). I just hate the fact that I am paying for illegal immigrants through my high taxes and I want it stopped just as much as the next person. Amnesty? No chance. Tougher border controls - yes but I would also add, stop pussy footing around them and just put them on a fucking boat back to where they came. Instead we put them up for months whilst the courts decide. Sorry but that is so fucked up.

 

[Ch3tan]

Also an insight into the student visa issue. We get lots of immigrants on student visa's looking for places to rent at work.

What you will find is; there will be one or two people on student visas -these are the people that will rent the property. About 10 people will actually move in, Indians Pakistanis and Far East Asians mainly. They will pay no council tax as the people on the tenancy agreement are on student visas. Massive drain on council resources with no contribution.

I can't stress how common this is across London. These "students" mainly go to crappy "colleges" that teach English or some other mickey mouse course, and only attend once a week or so.

 

[nath]

Amnesty? No chance. Tougher border controls - yes but I would also add, stop pussy footing around them and just put them on a fucking boat back to where they came.

All well and good, but how do you suggest we find them?

 

[rynnor]

All well and good, but how do you suggest we find them?

We cant - tbh we have lost the battle on immigration.

Even if we dont have amnesties other countries like spain do - once they go legal in spain they can automatically come to the UK.

The only way we could regain control would be to leave the EU.

 

[Grits]

Thanks for the info guys. Sounds like the situation in the UK is just like in the US. Its not that you cant control your border, its that your government refuses to do so.

I think the vast majority of Americans are not racists xenophobes, we just want our border controlled. Its insulting to all the immigrants who follow the law to give amnesty to the ones that found the legal channel too inconvenient.

 

[Tom]

All well and good, but how do you suggest we find them?

Well it would help if we didn't, as I've seen many times on that Traffic Cops programme, ask them to attend their nearest immigration centre, before letting them go.

The real problem with getting rid of illegals is finding out from whence they came. If they won't tell you, what are you going to do?

 

[rynnor]

I think the vast majority of Americans are not racists xenophobes, we just want our border controlled. Its insulting to all the immigrants who follow the law to give amnesty to the ones that found the legal channel too inconvenient.

For a long time we werent allowed to discuss Immigration in a sensible way.

Its an article of faith in socialist circles that 'Immigration is a good thing' - anyone who questioned that was immediatly labelled a racist.

After years of massive uncontrolled immigration it became such a big election issue that even the socialists had to start discussing the problems it caused.

It will be interesting to see what happens next.

 

[ECA]

What would be fun is waiting until the new labour leader is chosen - and then about a week later the tories/lib dems call another election.

Labour have nobody who can really be the "face" of labour except John Prescott/Jack Straw and they'll have to pray whoever they pick can do well in TV debates.

Additionally the funding disparity between cons/labour/libdem on top of that would really fuck labour/lib dems over.

 

[Chilly]

the amount of money we spend putting up johnny foreigner is fuck all compared to what we spend keeping lazy ***** happy in free houses.

 

[Embattle]

Controlled immigration is fine, what we have at the moment seems like it isn't controlled but the problem is once you let the rope start going can you manage to get a grip on it again.

 

[Chilly]

it's because we're complying fully with EU directives and letting too many eastern europeans in. IMO. The problem is that if we limit immigration, so will other EU states and we wont be able to travel and work as freely as we'd like. There's several people on this board who work in other EU states who found it easy to move - that wouldnt be the case if we started locking things down.

 

[Grits]

For a long time we werent allowed to discuss Immigration in a sensible way.

Its an article of faith in socialist circles that 'Immigration is a good thing' - anyone who questioned that was immediatly labelled a racist.

After years of massive uncontrolled immigration it became such a big election issue that even the socialists had to start discussing the problems it caused.

It will be interesting to see what happens next.

I am afraid that is the path the US is heading. The US even has "Sanctuary Cities" which are large cities like Los Angeles, San Fransisco and Phoenix that outright refuse to enforce Federal law on immigration and advertise that they will readily welcome illegal immigrants. We still get slapped with the racist label if you simply want the current laws upheld.

I cant say I blame your average Mexican immigrant, I'd leave that shithole too if I was able, I blame our government for not even attempting to control the border.

 

[rynnor]

I cant say I blame your average Mexican immigrant, I'd leave that shithole too if I was able, I blame our government for not even attempting to control the border.

Uncontrolled/Unmonitored immigration meant that in some places local services were overwhelmed such as schools places/housing/health services etc.

Its a remarkable fact that most children being born in the UK today are being born to immigrant parents - we actually had a declining population until the recent influxes.

 

[Grits]

Oddly, in those Sanctuary Cities the same thing is happening with the hospitals and school systems, but they either dont care or refuse to admit its illegal immigrants that are causing it.

 

[Chilly]

on one hand, you dont want to give free healthcare and education (etc) to freeloaders, on the other if you dont, they get sick/desperate and turn to crime to support themselves - which makes matters worse. We're being exploited, plain and fucking simple. People know they can move here and take the piss, and the do.

Now, most immigrants dont, but if even a small %age do take the piss, then local services can get seriously oversubscribed - which isnt good for anyone

 

[rynnor]

Now, most immigrants dont, but if even a small %age do take the piss, then local services can get seriously oversubscribed - which isnt good for anyone

They dont really have to do anything to cause problems its just that local services are planned years in advance based on estimates and these estimates were blown out of the water.

You cant just open new schools and hospital wards overnight and of course the illegal ones arent registered to vote and thus the local administration wont get any money for them from central government.

 

[Chilly]

well, looks like we're getting immigration caps anyway, so things will change drastically I assume. I reckon the cap should be about 50-100k PA.

 

[dysfunction]

well, looks like we're getting immigration caps anyway, so things will change drastically I assume. I reckon the cap should be about 50-100k PA.

Won't make the slightest bit of difference due to most immigrants being part of the EU who have freedom of movement.

 

[rynnor]

Won't make the slightest bit of difference due to most immigrants being part of the EU who have freedom of movement.

Actually Nick Clegg got that wrong - the official stat was around 30% from the EU.

 

[Raven]

A million people every 10 years? Lets just turn the UK into one big housing estate!

 

[Ch3tan]

A million people every 10 years? Lets just turn the UK into one big housing estate!

It's not that many people, and if combined with a good immigration control system or maybe a Oz style points system will benefit us.

What's the current level of immigration per year, before you write of 100k as too high.