ID CTF vs Threewave CTF

[old.Fusion]

Having just played on the 3 Threewave CTF maps I have to admit I'm not impressed at all by them.

Firstly the maps are big, Q3WCTF1 is very very big making the pace of the game far too slow. Secondly due to the size of the maps they are often far too easy to defend on. A couple of semi competant defenders is all it takes to stop anyone taking the flag on Q3WCTF1, even with team work its difficult because the attackers have to cover such a large terrain to reach the enemy flag and they have to come through narrow corridors in order to get to the flag room

The advantage of the 4 ID CTF maps is that they're small (excluding CTF3) and simplisitc, which makes then fast, frantic and very fun to play on. Winning is about covering your team mates and relying on pure deathmatch skills instead of whoring lame powerups.

The point of this thread is that I feel ID have taken the right approach with CTF where the emphaysis is on pace and deathmatch skills as opposed to threewave maps where the pace of the game is far too slow, defending is too easy and capping is a nightmare.

What's everybody else think?

 

[old.-=[FusioN]=-]

I wouldn't know, I only play DM

 

[old.Maverick]

I think they're both designed for different types of play, and both have their own merits.

id, as you say, have gone for fast frantic CTF which can be a lot of fun for a quick blast. However because of the small nature of the maps and the number of players that are suited to them then there isn't much incentive for good teamplay and individuals tend to shine.

ThreeWave have gone for the more traditional QW/Q2 CTF where larger teams are involved. Because the maps are bigger and more people are involved you need teamwork to capture the flag against a good team.

A perfect example of this is the map you cite, q3wctf1. If you try to play it fast and furious which works well on the id maps, then you'll get picked off before you get close to the flag. You need to go with some teammates and send them in first before you dive in to grab the flag in the confusion (and then hope that they're still alive to cover your exit

.

I think both sets of maps play well for their distinctive styles. One things for sure, I sure don't miss the grapple

// mav

 

[old.Necro]

For those who don't know, the Q3Wctf maps were made by Graeme Devane (sp?) of IDsoftware. I suspect he built most (if not all) of the Q3 included CtF levels as well.

I think that the CtF levels included with Q3 are too small for anything other than semi-disorganised low-player-count games. In fact, i think they are amoung the smallest CtF levels i've ever seen (and i've been playing CtF since 1996). I personally prefer levels where people have to compromise between defence and offence because of the distance between bases and ones where strategy has to be thought over in more than 12seconds.

I also disagree that large CtF levels encourage powerup whoring. Powerup whoring is a problem that ALL public servers have.

 

[old.Fusion]

Not unless you play the ID maps where there isn't any powerups to whore

I think the ID maps favour the team with the best 'mad-skillz' players (i.e. players with good aim) where as the threewave maps are arguable more tactical which makes them geared more towards clans.

I don't have a problem with the maps being small, I think it just makes things faster. But I guess it just depends on your preference, whether you prefer speed or strategy.

 

[old.Necro]

Q3ctf2 (or is it 3) does contain powerups but otherwise, i agree with everything else you say.

 

[old.maw]

iDCTF is fast paced and fun to jump into but i can't see clans wanting to piddle around with fast DM style games.

 

[old.Maverick]

For those who don't know, the Q3Wctf maps were made by Graeme Devane (sp?) of IDsoftware. I suspect he built most (if not all) of the Q3 included CtF levels as well.[/quote/

Ehehehe? Where did you hear that? The Q3wctf maps are done by ThreeWave, not id.

// mav

 

[old.Necro]

See BluesNews (Dec 15 1999). Zoid (i've confused him with Graeme again but both worked on Q3 anyway) is the one who created 3Wave CtF in the first place.

 

[old.buckleb]

The 3Wave maps seem a little claustrophobic, and the layout is such that most matches, that I've played anyway, turn into a sort of Team DM style of game.

In Qwctf1, you can die of boredom waiting for someone to attack your flag. There's so many FFA fights going on that only the good, and the sneaky, can get to your base. And then they've got to trek all the way back!

The ID CTF maps are basically a 'every man for himself, and get the flag while you're at it' sort of thing, though CTF4 is a hoot (the space one).

I would have liked the Q3 ctf maps to be more along the lines of TFC, where the territory for both side is more defined (IYSWIM).

The first, commercial, game I played was 'Pong', and then 'Tank', so I suppose I should just marvel at the technical expertise that goes into these modern games

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Playing as SoWat!