Huge battles and Skill

Tholus

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Messages
210
I have been a fan of strategic games since I was young (looooong time ago) I strongly believe huge battles can be a show of skills and tactics more than anything else.

Although the big zerg vs zerg are sometimes fun (and have been fun during the week) I have to agree with those who says that there is not much "skill" in it atm.

On the other hand Hibernia will never be able to compete on pure numbers in big battles (NF).

That is why I would like to try an experiment if someone is interested in trying with me.
I would like to try some more organized tactics and strategy in the huge battle manegement.
Something very basic at the beginning:

> A battle group where those who joins agree to follow instructions (for a couple hours)
> Only group leaders can talk.
> We define 2-3 groups, with good setup and good players as "flanking and incursion squads" (FS1 - FS2 - FS3)
> The rest, no perfect setup required, croc movent etc, is the "main army" (MA)
> A stealth grp as "sabouters" (SS) and info gathering

We try some basic tactics at the beginning: just some flanking and hitting enemy from behind etc (FSs behind the main gate or outside the keep, MA holding the enemy in front, SS adding at the right point etc). MArmy moves slowly, FSs can react quick and fast.

I think this can be interesting both for the "zerg" Main Army (good fun even if not perfect setup/ grp) and for more "elite" groups (Flanking squads are those who can earn more realm points). But ofc this is a proposal, nothing mandatory.

DA can usually pop 2-3 fgs. What I ask is if some other guild is interested in trying this, just an attempt. If positive I'll set up a time/date for one attempt.
 

Eelai

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 26, 2004
Messages
46
Great initiative.

TBH I'm quite sceptic if this is ever gonna work, but if all people could pay attention for an hour or two, Hibernia might just be able to pull off a small stunt :)

I'm game anyway
 

Kaireem

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 16, 2004
Messages
150
its a very nice idea but i think its gonna be like some ML raids, ppl doing what they want when they want and can't read.
lovely idea tho and good luck :cheers:
 

Hvutt

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Feb 20, 2004
Messages
9
I love it Tholus.

It doesn't have to be so hard to do. The hardest part in the beginning is to find the people, with their minds set for this type of battling. I guess, that is also what you are initiating here.

This approach and way to act in these type of games works fine in other games/servers/situations, so just set it in motion.

Even though this maybe is ment as a side-event in the big game, just start it from scrap. Get a few people in and test it. If people don't live up to your expetations, just tell them politely that you will have to disband them from the raids.

Then build it up, and in no time you will have a bunch of people, that can help tell newcomers, how the things in general works. Make a few simple rules on how to behave and act when in this type of action. This has nothing to do with the actual strategy for battles you are trying to get going.

I have been wanted to be a part of this type of battling for months and I'm sure there are others out there too. Like rangers or shades that can actually fill a role (as their class invites them to be), as scouts and reporters and sneaking assasins that helps a larger strategic group.

Anyway, I'm very up for this. Count me in (if you'll have me ;) ). And talk to me in game if you need a hand starting this.

Member of Draconis Alumni
 

Tigersans

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Feb 9, 2004
Messages
260
I think this is a great idea cant do any harm and will be fun to pull off for all RR's.

Also if we can learn to fight battles in a strategic mannor and get in practice now. When NF comes out being outnumberd by other realms this strategic play should help us win more big battles
 

Icebreaker

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,294
The biggest Problem is. In normal Strategic Games the Units you use don't have their own Brain. YOU click, they move like you want it. Lets take a look on Daoc. You shout some Orders and what happens? Not much. xD

You get the usual Selfmoving Zerg. Thats it.

I did some Keep fights with my Guild. Everything is funky. About 2-3 Fgs. Easy to Control. Good Peeps. They listen, we win against 9281928912819 Mids/albs, whatever. No Probs. More Hibs come, they heard: Hey nice battles at XXXX Keep. This time it doesn't work. I do my usual Shouts. Guild listens. The other Hibs don't. They Flame, they do this and that. Just not the Thing who would lead us to success.

Another Example: Mids had Ailline. Hibs camped it but didn't managed to get in. It was a constant farming of RP's from Midside. Leader went off and i took over. Told the Hibs to retreat to the Lake. (Which took about 30 Minutes to get them all of the Keep :E) Allright, i expected Most Mids to come out because it was late and they wanted to do something. It happened. Mids charged and Hibs charged them back from the Lake up to the Keep. (70% of defending Mids dead). Now here comes the usual >We don't listen< Mode. I wanted the Hibs to charge into the Keep as fast as possible but most of them stopped outside, too scared to go in. (Hey this is just a Game, you don't die there in RL :D ) Mids started to use CS and rezzed. 20 Minutes later the fight was over and Hibs were all back at Druim Ligen. :D

= kekekekekekeke

The Point is. Until we Hibs don't learn to listen we won't win against a Mudmen near Connla. :D

I really like Keep Battles and Really huge Zerg Battles. And i REALLY would love to do some Stunts with them to surprise the Enemy. But it just doesn't work atm. :E
 

Eelai

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 26, 2004
Messages
46
Maybe it is a good initial idea to try to get as much guildgroups as possible in the beginning (because I can really understand the above arguments). That way you can kinda limit the randomness in reaction of the zerg(hope you know what I mean :p). If your base is solid, you minimize the risk of random groups (who should by all means tag along!)

Only downside I can think of then, is the neverending discussion of which groups are leet enough to be flank.
 

Icebreaker

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,294
Oh forgot to add this Picture:

http://www.btinternet.com/~steve.wynn/charge.jpg

This was in Midgard while we defended a Mid Keep with our Guild. While we talk about Tacitcs, Flanking and stuff. Those two Moosies you see here irritated the 95 Mids that much that they didn't charged in. A pure Mage Group of the Guild jumped behind the Keep at the same time we moosed.

Result: 95 nicley stacked Mids infront of 2! Hibs died. Jumper Group started to kill while the Rest of the Defenders charged out. None of us died. :p
 

Boni

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Feb 8, 2004
Messages
1,607
YES do it, give it ago, im sure people will follow if you show yourself willing to lead and try out new stuff.

I do think BG's need more controll, probably set so that only group leaders can talk and all information goes through them.

It really makes me sick when we are doing a keep raid and some idiot realises df is open and spams /bc this is the sux, i r bored, lets go DF and farm emerald seals!!11, or someone suggest a relic raid or a hop to HW or anything else that is really inappropriate and just serves to divide the zerg or confuse people about what they are doing. Instructions need to be clear from one or two people only, again it only takes some idiot sub-brehon to do /bc CHARGEE!111 and half a dozen sheep will follow at the wrong time.
 

Gray-CF

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 27, 2004
Messages
171
if rl doesnt pwn me ill always come to things like this :)
 

Jayce

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 23, 2004
Messages
438
Might I suggest the group leaders all join the same TeamSpeak channel and that way if the MainArmy leader calls for help in TS and the FS groups can come running etc etc without the delay of typing.

Only the group leaders mind as it would be too chaotic with all the zerg on TS !!
 

Aloca

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,585
Jayce said:
Might I suggest the group leaders all join the same TeamSpeak channel and that way if the MainArmy leader calls for help in TS and the FS groups can come running etc etc without the delay of typing.

Only the group leaders mind as it would be too chaotic with all the zerg on TS !!
You can have a moderated channel with only grp leaders with rights to talk that way the zerglings that want to listen for faster reactions can do it, but not talk.
 

Ogen

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Feb 11, 2004
Messages
1,384
Sounds like a great and fun ideer.. Lets get it startet imo :)
Especially the team speak for leaders and listening mode for the zerg, i really agree could be a major asset to large scale fights.
So i really hope you get it startet :worthy:
 

LordjOX

Part of the furniture
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
3,886
Not a bad idea when NF comes, hibernia need strong leaders to coordinate keeptakes etc
 

Mysteriax

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 22, 2003
Messages
59
I'll keep track of this, and if you have a date planned I'll drag my old ass back to hibby land (from alb/pryd or ragnarok online) to help you guys.
Maybe we can try it first with DA groups and maybe test it in bg1 (bg1 = easy to get perfect setup etc)
 

Ogri

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Feb 11, 2004
Messages
51
Sounds great fun!
For this to work better, group's/regiment's will possibly require battle/movement organisation prior to the event. Would like to suggest that Moher and Connacht both have adequate space to test formations/manouvres, and are none too far from DL, with little to no distractions from uninvited guests and mobs etc which could compromise stability of organisation.
Cant be a bad thing to have a little more foresight, and I'm pretty sure that those who would be commited to the event wouldnt mind congregating for training prior to it being tested out on the range.
 

Tholus

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 7, 2004
Messages
210
a step further

I want to go a little more deeper into the topic.


Minimum requirements:

> 2 well set flanking groups (FS)
> 2 steady and disciplined main groups (MA)
> an unlimited number of people with no particular requirement
> more than welcome: 1 stealth group (SS)


Basic rules

> Only GLs can talk in BG
> The raid leader is in the main army groups
> The MA moves at walk speed so anyone can join the MA


Objectives:

Holding a position untill charge is ordered is a key factor. This will be the main scope and target of the first exercitation (if we actually decide to start this idea). People tend to be greedy and charge/ split for easy rps. This means to be usually defeated by the first enemy counterwave.

This is why you need a few key teams to hold steady and be the point of reference for the whole army. People have to understand they are free to spread and chease... but the key groups will not move from thier position. Is is not a big problem if the mass tends to have some movement and some kind of disorder. This was true in real battles too. But if you have 2 Flanking groups you can 100% trust on and 2-3 Main Army groups that are ordered and disciplined you will be able to drive the strategy consistently and to hold the main part of the people.
.... who disbands is cannon fodder. But this doesn't harm the main army. At the contrary they are bait for the enemy gredyness and our counterattack.

I believe there are probably more chances of success if the key groups in the Main Army are guild groups. Guild groups are usually more disciplined. A steady front with 3-4 guild groups moving in line at walk speed can hold position and lead an unlimited number of people.



Scenario

The first scenario will be Emain
The scope will be experiment some very basic tactics: typically holding a position (a main gate, a valley, a keep) in coordination with flanking squads and stealth squads.
If the enemy holds Crim or DC we can try some coordinated keep take. With "traps" and ambushes for the rushing enemy.

The rally point will be DL so we can train some basic in march and ordered movement in the way to Emain (MA on walk march in the valleys, FSs moving with speed flanking, opening formation, backstabbing)


Orders

The orders will be very simple and clean.
There are known zones of reference (Crim Valley, XDC, DC , Crim, AMG, MMG, APK, MPK, Tower) and the main army will be able to slowly move and "hold position" only there.
There are positional "hidden" spots for flanking squads to hide in until charge is ordered (behind main gates (left and right), the lake etc).

There will be "movement" orders, "set up and hold" orders and "charge and regather" orders.Nothing more.


Enemy

There is no fun in zerging against one full group of enemies. So we will post the date of the attempt. Enemys can plan a countaction and assemble an army to face us if they want (I dont think Albs will have any problem ;) ).

I dont expect to have success at the first attempt against the Albion Army.... but the point is learing from errors.


Patience

Patience will be a requirement for the first attempt. The first time 30-60 mins will be required to set up groups and dispatching positions.


Side Note

I am glad to try the experiment if there is interest on that. I have no problems in leading the first attempt.
But to be honest I believe there are more competent, experienced and skilled leaders, expecially in the big old guilds. I count on them for the future.....
 

TriggerHappy

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jul 19, 2004
Messages
769
i really like the idea mate. im all up for it hopefully 50 soon pm me in game if eva going for it m8 :worthy: :flame: :worthy:


Trespassers will be shot, survivers will be shot again,


triggerhappy hillbilly lvl47 vw
 

aphios

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Aug 22, 2004
Messages
140
Triggerhappy, i have some advice for you meight.
Instead of typing out...

"Trespassers will be shot, survivers will be shot again,


triggerhappy hillbilly lvl47 vw"

Why dont you just go to your "User Control Panel" and then under "Settings & Options" there is something called "Edit Signature"

Then a page comes up that lets you save

"Trespassers will be shot, survivers will be shot again,


triggerhappy hillbilly lvl47 vw"

Then you dont look like a complete idiot for typing it out every post.
Its pretty amazing !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111
 

Angara

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
579
aphios said:
Triggerhappy, i have some advice for you meight.
Instead of typing out...

"Trespassers will be shot, survivers will be shot again,


triggerhappy hillbilly lvl47 vw"

Why dont you just go to your "User Control Panel" and then under "Settings & Options" there is something called "Edit Signature"

Then a page comes up that lets you save

"Trespassers will be shot, survivers will be shot again,


triggerhappy hillbilly lvl47 vw"

Then you dont look like a complete idiot for typing it out every post.
Its pretty amazing !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1111

Its amazing how you make yourself look like a dumb fuck everytime you post on FH....I thought Herberts and Glottis had a fucked up brain, but you amaze me everytime you post here :)

Gratz for being #1 retard on FH!!!

Ps, nice ideas Tholus!! :D
 

Eelai

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 26, 2004
Messages
46
Was wondering how long it would take before a serious and innovative topic would change imo serious flaming... :twak:
 

aphios

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Aug 22, 2004
Messages
140
Angara said:
Its amazing how you make yourself look like a dumb fuck everytime you post on FH....I thought Herberts and Glottis had a fucked up brain, but you amaze me everytime you post here :)

Gratz for being #1 retard on FH!!!

Ps, nice ideas Tholus!! :D

If you are saying i am a dumb fuck in terms of education, then you dont have a clue what you are talking about, i am probobly better educated than most people who post on this forum.

At the moment i have an AVCE ICT award which stands for "Advanced Vocational Certificate of Education" which basically counts as 2 A-levels.

I have an A-level in LAW.

I have an A-level in Biology.

I have an A-level in Psychology.

And also an AS-level in Sociology.

I have an AVCE Business and Communications award, which also counts as 2 A-levels.

On my GCSE's 2 years ago i got 11 A grades to C grades.

Right now i am working part time at "The University Hospital of Hartlepool, Medical school." learning how to become a Psysiotherapist.

If this fails, you can also see the many other careers that i have oppertunity to go on to.

Im probobly earning more than you now, at the age of 17. And probobly alot smarter.

Now i do not have time to reply to whining little kids saying im dumb, and who not have a clue about my life at all.

This is all i will say on this thread.
 

Eelai

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jan 26, 2004
Messages
46
[offtopic]For someone who is as well educated as you (in sociology and psychology) your replies aren't very intelligent[/offtopic]


ontopic again: Tholus, I wouldn't mind helping you with organising. You know where to find me :)
 

aphios

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Aug 22, 2004
Messages
140
Reason why i dont give very intelligent replys to threads is mainly because im dealing with not very intelligent people.
 

Kenshiro

Loyal Freddie
Joined
Sep 17, 2004
Messages
223
Tholus,

Anytime you plan to try that out, I WILL BE THERE !!!

Ofcourse it is most likely that we get pwned the first time... but not the second one!

pls set a date for it, just to try it out :worthy:
 

Teiten

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Feb 12, 2004
Messages
212
aphios mejjt :eek: beeing and or acting like a retard has very little do with your inteligence.

on the other hand i realy like your idea tholus, you can count me in any time :D
 

Icebreaker

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 23, 2003
Messages
1,294
aphios said:
Reason why i dont give very intelligent replys to threads is mainly because im dealing with not very intelligent people.

Or you are not intelligent enough to make proper replys. xD

Me thinks you are not 17. You sound more like a 9 Years old Kid.

Back to the Topic:

Do that Tholus. If it works, it can be alot of fun.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top Bottom