How to stop the misery in rvr

[Slegga]

I have some to say about this topic (elite rvrguilds vs casual players)

Both of what Aarweenie says and what ImLestat says has it good points, but what no one of you is saying is how to improve the rvr aspect of daoc in the future to satisfy both the powergamer (play like 8+ hours a day) and the casual gamer (who works/study or whatever and can only play like 2-3 hours a day), or how both of these categories can coexist to what imo should be to make everybody have more fun and to make the realm feel more united, who support and help each other and who have common goals and share common beliefs.

Talking about the evolution of rvr guilds and about the effect it has on those players/guilds who just can run solo or in put together rvr groups:

Of course it must feel nice to be in a rvr elite guild if that is what u want to do, but as it affect the casual players rvr experience it is sad and does not help most people who play daoc to have fun. It is like taking Olympic champions to compete vs normal people, the normal person is doomed to loose and also to feel bad about it.

Aarweenie and someone else i know have said..but make a elite rvr guild yourself...like the solution would be to become like what you are...well the truth is that not everyone can play for 8+ hours a day or find players that always can play together at the same time every day...should we be condemned to suffer eternally in rvr because of these facts...i dont find this to be a viable solution.

My solution is to let elite rvr guilds play on special rvr areas vs other elite rvr guilds…like Olympic champions compete vs each other and let us casual rvr players play in special rvr areas vs each other. In this way everybody can have meaningful rvr battles, and meet enemies that they have a reasonable chance to beat.

Also if any wanna mail me any ideas u might have..my email is: henrik.svenssson3@telia.com

 

[araudry]

this remimd me something like trammel or i m maybe worng who know ^^

 

[Dahr]

not really wrong araudry... it's the same ><

 

[Slegga]

response to trammel

Sure if any person wants to have the freedom to get ganked by elites go ahead...but im talking about the majority of players who want to have meaningful rvr battles where they also have some chance to win.

Maybe you could have rvr areas where only RR1-RR3 players are allowed entry...but also at the same time have rvr areas where persons of any RRlevel can go (RR1-RR10). And not to forget, have rvr areas for the elites where you must have say RR6 to be able to enter.

I just would like to see a rvr area where casual players (the majority of paying daoc customers) can have fun rvr experience without beeing ganked by elite rvrguilds.

 

[greatred]

I think this is why I like the BG's. The players can be skilled or complete noobs. But the RR limit is set and you're not seperated by a wide gulf of powerful RA's

 

[case-rigantis]

nerf realm abilities, nerf buffbots, nerf instas and nerf resists then your half way there

IMO just bin it and get ready to go play dragon empires isntead of this pile of trash

 

[Slegga]

I agree to take away buffbots

I agree to take away all buffbots...but i dont want any abilities nerfed...and BG is nice also....but we also need a working, satisfying and challenging rvr system for the high lvl players.

 

[Qte Eth]

"elite" guilds have no connect with nerds "powergamers" ,u can play 3h a day and be good ,or play 10h and still suck

and olympic champions train for 5++ years from childhood to become champions,while in daoc all u need to compete with fg "elite" is 8 ppl of Right classes who know how to play their class.

and yes its easier to whine about elite guilds then to roll right class or make good rvr guild :/

 

[mordia]

Just remove all class specific and maybe active ra's.

 

[Kahland]

Originally posted by case-rigantis
nerf realm abilities, nerf buffbots, nerf instas and nerf resists then your half way there

IMO just bin it and get ready to go play dragon empires isntead of this pile of trash

i'll be looking forward to the day you fo

 

[Slegga]

comments to the posts

Qte Eth:

You are saying that there exists good and bad players and we all know that there always is going to be good and bad players.

But the problem im adressing in this thread is how to make this game a more interesting, satisfying rvr experience for both the good and not so good player. Without the elite rvr guilds to ruin the fun for many of those bad and/or casual players.

Mordia:

I dont agree to take away class specific and any RA abilities since i like the idea that daoc and the chars you make can differ from each other and be unique. And to have many specc/RA options gives the game more variety = more fun.

Kahland:

no comment

 

[case-rigantis]

seriously realm abilities re overpowered just look at master of blocking 1 costs 1 RSP and gives the equivalent of 6 points in shield

BoF gives +50% melee resists +26% normal resists thats 76%+ ffs same with BoAD but magic of course

IMO half their effects across the board would still make high RR powerful but not well over powered like they are now

guilds that use buffbots for guild group RvR these are the real problem since casual players won`t have access to this it means on the whole these guilds groups will be very very hard to overcome in 1fg v 1fg situations unless they meet a similar group of buffwhores

resists are being reworked so see what they do with it i guess

certain combinations of abilities are just too powerful in this game

kahland go back to sleep please :sleeping:

 

[succi]

Get off your arse and make yourself better instead of complaining about it

 

[Master_de_roos]

Siegga,

THere is indeed a great imbalance between those people (lucky ones!!!) who can spend a large part of their days/time developing a strong RvR Character. Hats off to them, for they are rightly proud of their acheivement and power.

However, put someone who has not had the same amount of chance/time to get theirs equipped with sc'd stuff etc...its a bit of a desperate situation. So it immediatly seems very un-balanced, and indeed reliant upon the time you have to play.

As for RP's well, everyone starts off with no rp's,so its just a matter of choosing where to fight and when.

The best RvR ive found I think is in en masse raids or in the Battlegrounds, where RA's are reduced in importance by other factors such as the strategic planning/co-operation of the assault, andthe relative youngness ofthe characters.

High level rvr groups will most probably mince any lower 1fg before them, thats because theyve invested the time.

Sothe best strategy, and most available to all, is choose your time well.

 

[Qte Eth]

i fail to see how having a fair 8vs8 fight and even losing it can ruin ur fun really ,ruining fun = zerging 1fg with 2++

and yes when we started we were killed pretty often 8v8 by more skilled grps, so we went to some other then emain places often to fight enemy that was our level at that time and to gain required experience.

and probably main - you getting fun from rvr only depends from _you_ not from rps u get per hour, like happiness not a condition, but a decision.

 

[old.Psi]

I think RAs are an excuse for losing to more skilled players who know how to handle situations better..

Of course the RAs help a great deal, but I expect the players who are successful with the RAs would still be successful without them, although obviously not as.

There's a new up and coming RvR guild, 8 of us all with pre-determined classes, so after we're done getting to 50 and have farmed our items and got our SC kits, we'll see how we do as RR1L1.

 

[rynnor]

Originally posted by old.Psi
I think RAs are an excuse for losing to more skilled players who know how to handle situations better..

Of course the RAs help a great deal, but I expect the players who are successful with the RAs would still be successful without them, although obviously not as.

I agree - I'm still a casual RvR player but I can see many areas where I could improve my tactics and do a lot better even if I never gained any more realm abilities - they are just a bonus.

Whenever my group gets killed by one of the 'elite rvr groups' theres a great opportunity to learn - you cant nick all their tactics but a lot can be adapted to give yourself an advantage over the other casual groups - and obviously eventually you would become an elite rvr player

Finally, the elite groups arent that thick on the ground - most of my opponents are in the same boat as me!

 

[scarffs]

Originally posted by Qte Eth
i fail to see how having a fair 8vs8 fight and even losing it can ruin ur fun really ,ruining fun = zerging 1fg with 2++

and yes when we started we were killed pretty often 8v8 by more skilled grps, so we went to some other then emain places often to fight enemy that was our level at that time and to gain required experience.

and probably main - you getting fun from rvr only depends from _you_ not from rps u get per hour, like happiness not a condition, but a decision.

Hehe, so your gaming experience would be just as nice porting all the time then killing all the time ?
Serious zen-shit you're smoking.

Killed pretty often ? Have you ever rvrd casually ? I dont think so. Guys like you who have all the time in the world dont know the ordeal a casual player must go through to level a char and then get a nice group and rvr. Since its impossible to explain I wont bother but all the others will know what i mean. But when you finally get a group and rvr you get thrashed without a chance by gank squads time after time. Wtf is rewarding about that ?

Skilled in daoc is not the same as in another game. Skilled meansmaking the right decisions at the right moment. To get to make these decisions, you need a good char, capped, with big ras and a guild rvr group because otherwise you dont stand a chance whatever you do. Dont say a good rr3 group can win even 1 out of five against your group for example.
Time invested is what counts = sad. Skill would be better for everyone. So we should lose the ras.
This way you would still rule with your ganksquad since you know eachother and probably have more skill, but casual players with skill have a chance.

 

[Slegga]

response to recent comments

case-rigantis:

did u forget that “master of blocking 1 costs 1 RSP” requires RA skill Aug dex II which first must be baught for 4 rsp so that makes mastery of blocking 1 cost in fact 4+1=5 rsp which is enough rpts to get the equivalent of 6 points in shield I think at least.

Succi:

You missed my point: -“Get off your arse and make yourself better”, not all of us can get so good or play so much to get as u have 3 million rpts, and just because we cant, do you want to condemn us to eternal misery in rvr, to get ganked forever by ppl like yourself . Of course even casual and/or bad player do what they can to try to become better players but that is not the issue here. Like I said before there are always gonna be good and bad players but how to better make these groups coexist in rvr in the future is the question of this thread.

Master_de_roos:

Thanks for the advice about time..wonder if my boss will lets me play daoc in daytime instead so i can get rid of the zergs in primetime evening time .

Qte Eth:

“i fail to see how having a fair 8vs8 fight and even losing it can ruin ur fun really”…hehe did you read what I wrote? Im requesting for changes so we can have more fair fights in rvr…the problem today is how casual/bad players all the time get killed by powergamers/skilled players (elite rvr guilds) in rvr.

“other then emain places”..that can work if u are lucky…but both HW and Odins have zergs or elite guilds visiting them as well, if u havent noticed that already, u will.

“and probably main - you getting fun from rvr only depends from _you_ not from rps u get per hour, like happiness not a condition, but a decision.” Ok then Qte Eth, from now on cant you decide for yourself that dying all the time and sitting in svasud on the pad to wait for next teleport is fun, then I will decide that winning rvr fights and get rpts is fun for me ok .

old.Psi:

good luck to you.

Rynnor:

You basically are saying “learn to be better” and sure we all try to do that.

Scarffs:

Here is another player that obviously have been suffering a lot…”So we should lose the ras.”..i don’t want to take away the ras,,,they are what make the after lvl 50 game worth playing. The solutions im looking for are not the ones that take away something from the game, but instead adds to the games variety and fun and to adress the negative rvr experience most people get from dying vs elite rvr guild over and over again.

 

[calif]

Originally posted by succi
Get off your arse and make yourself better instead of complaining about it

Thats all very well,if you have the time to do it.
I have work/family to " get off my arse " for first.

Sometimes i would like to play but the wifes had a bad day or the kids are playing up or the cat has been sick all over the house and i have to deal with that.

so i have no/very little time to " get off my arse"

 

[Slegga]

response to Calif

Calif:

Well said Calif! What Succi cant understand is that people´s lifesituation might be different from each other, and what im looking for is solutions to make everyones daoc rvr experince a meaningful, satisfying experience either you have a lot of time to play daoc or a little time or you are a good/not so good player.

 

[dakeyras]

RvR Guild groups don't like zergs because it means they die and get no rps because they can't compete with the numbers.

RvR 'casual' groups don't like High RR Guild groups because they die and get no rp because they can't compete with the RA's.

I have seen it said on another thread that 'Mythic will never remove RA's because it will piss off too many High RR players'

Wrong.

Mythic will do whatever their business partners and financial advisers tell them to do. The shareholders want a return on their investment and the only way to get that return is through the sale of more and more accounts.

If, the sales of new accounts drop and a suggestion is made that new players are discouraged because they can't compete (and this has started to be quoted in trade publications) then Mythic will do whatever is necessary to make the end game appeal to new customers.

Whether that is stripping RA's is doubtful. I would surmise it would be done more covertly. But anyone who thinks Mythic would not be prepared to do something just because it pisses some people off are mistaken. The only people they want to keep happy are the shareholders, and that means incresing cashflow whatever the cost.

 

[zapzap]

I still dont see why RvR group should be done any different then a XP group ?

I often log on make a group or join a random group, but I dont run out with a group where 8 spots are just filled up.

U dont see a many XP group where healer shammy ect is not included ?? Take malmo U got 2 healers + shammy + MA and fill up what is needed to be able to pull. Now u hit 50 why do it any different?

Malmo is Hell YES but the rules from there still works in RvR.

If people in malmo make a group with 1 healer 3 thanes 3 rms + warrior and die ITS NOT COZ THE MOBS HAVE BETTER RAs is just coz that setup doesnt work. People realize this fast and YELL we need more tanks + a seer more and they will wait for 1 to log in.

After rr6 not many RAs that will help a mid group be better.
RR6 = 1010625 thats in 1½ year about 1550 RPs every day even the Very casual player can handle that.

Zapsi

 

[stroopwafel]

Originally posted by Qte Eth
is 8 ppl of Right classes who know how to play their class.

thats almost impossible in albion
skilled people just join PE and go to emain or delete because they got fed up with rvr as an alb (hi Shike )

 

[klavrynd]

Re: response to trammel

Originally posted by Slegga

Maybe you could have rvr areas where only RR1-RR3 players are allowed entry...but also at the same time have rvr areas where persons of any RRlevel can go (RR1-RR10). And not to forget, have rvr areas for the elites where you must have say RR6 to be able to enter.

As if a rr1 group that knows what they're doing cant take out an rr3 group easily

 

[Slegga]

more respons

Dakeyras:

You have right that mythic needs new accounts but they also need to keep the already paying customers…and to gain RAs is one way to keep customers playing and paying…so I don’t think they will take away RAs because that is one of the reason you keep playing and paying after you hit lvl 50 with one or more chars.

Zapzap:

“I still dont see why RvR group should be done any different then a XP group ?”
What you fail to see zapzap is that many players who come out in rvr don’t get to go in perfect rvr groups…either due to bad luck, bad timing,cant wait for hours to a perfect group can be made, member of bad guild or what ever…but as I have suggested it would be nice if you all would try to come with creative suggestions how to improve the rvr situation instead of trying to flame each other and try to look cool or sound smart.

old.Hardbein:

I don’t think you will get many who will sign up on that idea old.Hardbein.

Klavrynd:

“As if a rr1 group that knows what they're doing cant take out an rr3 group easily”. As true as that is…but what is easier to beat do you think, a rr1 group that knows what they are doing or a rr6+ group that knows what they are doing?

 

[old.Hardbein]

Introduce XP loss in RvR combat (yes u can lvl down)....mebe then ppl would use their brains forming grps for RvR?

 

[Gizor]

Slegga: stop whining imo, kkthxbb

 

[zapzap]

Slegga it's not a flame ?.
Just told u how to make a group ! same way u do when u want to xp.

Pm the class u need and LFG also works if u are LVL 50, malmo is done this way everyday for over 1 year, why shouldnt rvr group work same way ?

U wanna xp normally I ask in GU if anybody wanna xp lvl XY if not i look on LFG and then i begin to PM people with the class I need.

Same thing should work for RvR group.

friend List also works.

Zapsi

 

[mid_Efour]

cant understand why some old school people still play this shite game when will you learn.

RvR system hasnt changed since Beta same old shit over and over and over and over and over and overover and over and overover and over and overover and over and overover and over and overover and over and overover and over and overover and over and overover and over and overover and over and overover and over and overover and over and overover and over and overover and over and overover and over and overover and over and overover and over and overover and over and overover and over and overover and over and overover and over and overover and over and overover and over and overover and over and overover and over and overover and over and overover and over and overover and over and over

casual RvRers will never be able to have as much fun as gank squads.