How to for Thid SBs

MKJ

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jun 5, 2004
Messages
1,196
This is the result and culmination of playing mainly sbs for close to 3 years. So what? Well my latest and hopefully final SB kills everything in thid. He is a simple and relatively weak Valkyn but is extremely fast - 187 quickness. He outdamages slash and thrust infs and is capable of bringing down any tank. The fighting techniques have taken a great deal of time to perfect and really i don't want to just let them die a death. SBs from any level should be able to pick up something from them to boost their own damage or to stay alive longer.

Also posted in Battlegrounds.

I gotta stop playing sbs in BG1 because for some reason i always go mental when i do. Happened with Honed and now i can see it occuring again. But i want to put down the stuff i have learned to help up and coming sbs. Stuff that i have never seen posted elsewhere.

How do i know stuff about sbs?

I have a level 50 full crit SB - Certifiable and a level 50 full la SB - MKJ. PKJ is a culmination of them both with something from playing a caster as well.

Lets consider an SB in BG1. We can ignore who or wot they are with regard to race etc for now. I shall put down 3 attack methods. Beginner - Advanced. Then i gonna show you PKJ's attack methods.

Beginner - someone new to the game and more or less trying out an SB. Crit of 21 for perf. We can ignore the rest of the stats for now. Decides to go 2 handed because lets face it everyone wants to kill a caster in one hit. Ok - the attack:

The Attack: creeps up and perfs with the 2 hander and then just stands there. Nice damage from first hit and could well have killed the target but now is extremely vulnerable for upto 6 secs. After the nasty delay he will garote again. Nothing else. No moving and no weapon swapping just a garote every 6 secs or so.

Advanced - someone been playing sb for quite some time and learned a few things - such as weapon swapping.

The Attack - perfs with the 2 hander and then swaps to 2 weapons to melee. 3 poisons brought into play and has the option of swapping back to the 2 hander should he or she want to. Will also be able to run through and use stick to try and confuse the enemy.

PKJ's attack now.

First of all spec - 25 stealth (should have only been 24 but made a mistake) - 25 axe, 25 poison and 8 la (higher if not made stealth mistake).

Attack - pillager with 2 weapons - lethal 25 on one - 22 str/con debuff on other. Swaps to the 2 handed njessi axe (speed of 4.3) for plunderer follow up (very high damage because you are now hitting for your full amount and no la effect - also it is a follow up to pillager and hits hard). Swapping during the combo utilizes the la haste effect so the 2 hits are extremely close together. Run through and turns using FACE and not STICK. Use stick after using face.

Using FACE and not STICK causes me to turn instantly and not swing around fairly slowly. I can infact hit the keyboard for the plunderer follow up and run through to turn using face and will hit from behind as the opponent appears in my vision again. FACE is that fast.

Should the opponent never use stick well he is now dead meat because i will more or less kill him from behind in the time he takes to swing around. After using the 2 handed follow up i have now swapped back to the 2 weapons for the pillager hit and then to swap back again to the Njessi for the plunderer. I do this all the time.

Should the opponent be experienced and is very dangerous and also uses stick then you really have a fight on your hands and it is all down to damage. But i have a few more tricks to cause my damage to escalate.

Weapon swapping and poison.

A slash inf is all about debuff and damage. He first of all takes your str away and then annihilates you with high damage. How do you fight back? Well do back to him as he has done to you but do it faster. Ok how to escalate damage:

Weapon swapping. Keep a bag of ready poison weapons. If i engage someone like Catrine - nasty slash inf - then i watch damage. Should my debuff fail then i go mental with weapon swapping. I know she uses stick so running through is not gonna be effective, though i will throw one or 2 in to confuse. Only thing now is to out damage her. How? Well for one thing i know that even if my str has dropped i am still gonna hurt badly using the Njessi so the plunderer follow up is still useable. But the 2 weapon hits are now rubbish and need boosting. Eh? Each time i use pillager i have a fresh 3.1 speed poison weapon in my main hand. I swap after every 2 handed plunderer. Pillager - swap to 2 handed plunderer - swap a fresh weapon from bag to main hand and hit with pillager and so on. I use the fresh pulse of the poison to boost the mainhand damage. Instead of hitting for 40 mainhand i am now hitting for 80 along with 15-25 offhand for a total of 100 for pillager and probably the same for plunderer. Nothing can stand up to that really. Even if she evades the poison still ticks away. Should you kill the opponent only to be attacked by another then swap to a fresh poison weapon and fight again.

Potions. These are ofcourse life savers so get used to using them. You can use them during the fight or when running away.

The above take a hell offa lot of practise but can be done. Being able to do them all at the same time gives you options. You have infact about 3-4 damage gears that you can use. Should a fight that is going well suddenly turn sour you can alter your fighting tactics to suit. This makes playing an SB a very rewarding experience. But if you are just gonna stand there infront of you opponent and think you are going to outdamage someone like Catrine then you are gonna lose all the time.

Hopefully i have given you a few tips.

PKJ
 

poisono

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
May 10, 2004
Messages
271
Kind of intresting in parts. Ive really got to get me self into Weapon swaps. Im gonna start moving away for my Thid SB's from high CS/Stealth/Axe
 

Ixoth

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
1,952
Hehe interesting. SB kinda anti-infil char (well not exclusively)? Have looked for a quite some time a mid char who can defeat infils quite easily (non-caster one). Perhaps once I get my bb to lvl 50, I roll a sb. :p

(Have been annoyed how easily an infil can defeat Ixoth. A good buffed infil can defeat any tank they say. Bollocks or mostly true - go figure).
 

MKJ

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Jun 5, 2004
Messages
1,196
Easily?

Well you can't kill buffed slash infs easily even with PKJ. The fight is frantic and nerve wracking and you have to do a number of things at the same time as well as watching damage etc. I can't play PKJ for very long cos i burn out and feel exhausted in no time.

If you really want to mash infs - and i mean mash - create a buffed la hammer zerker cos infs go down in just a few hits from them. If you want a level 50 Zerker go forra high con dwarf. If you want to play only in BG1 then you can mess about with Valkyn's and Trolls etc. I got a Valkyn one now that i will use in BG1 soon. Incredibly fast and will cause some infs to panic for sure.

PKJ
 

Ixoth

One of Freddy's beloved
Joined
Apr 9, 2004
Messages
1,952
MKJ said:
Well you can't kill buffed slash infs easily even with PKJ. The fight is frantic and nerve wracking and you have to do a number of things at the same time as well as watching damage etc. I can't play PKJ for very long cos i burn out and feel exhausted in no time.

If you really want to mash infs - and i mean mash - create a buffed la hammer zerker cos infs go down in just a few hits from them. If you want a level 50 Zerker go forra high con dwarf. If you want to play only in BG1 then you can mess about with Valkyn's and Trolls etc. I got a Valkyn one now that i will use in BG1 soon. Incredibly fast and will cause some infs to panic for sure.

PKJ

Txs, MKJ for a tip. I'll take your tip under advicement when I choose my next char to roll. :cheers:
 
R

rakkedaoc

Guest
Heh.. well.. not exactly a SB spec this one.. but decided to try and have a little fun in Thid lately.

Made myself a Troll zerker, with +15 to str, rest con.

Specced him all axe rest parry. Using a 5.1 speed drop 2 hander.

This is definately the most fun ive ever had in Thid.

I mainly solo'ed (duo'ed (sham bot)), and would stand in lookout hills "beckoning" in all directions, waiting for someone that couldnt resist perfing that big blue Troll.

The damage output is insane, as many stealthers found out the hard way, and allthough Ive enjoyed my thid sbs and my main one today, there was a odd satisfaction in getting jumped at lvl 20 by 2 lvl 24 stealthers, and handing both their behinds :flame:

This happened on numerous occations, and I did end up having more waves and heads shaking no to my "beckoning" after a couple of hours.

I did run into a few advesaries that punished me dearly 1v1, but not nearly as much as I was doing the other way around. :touch:

This is in no way a "whoo me" post, but more to be considered inspiration for a straight of the bat lvl 20 that can cause some serious trouble in thid.

(My armor is PM and fully sc'ed though)
 

Azathrim

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 31, 2003
Messages
1,802
Heh, were puzzled at those screenshots... like, 80%+ crits, what went on?

Then I noticed it was a zerker. :)
 

Lord-Pelu

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Mar 3, 2004
Messages
17
my SB thid spec

i use this spec (+sc template +bb ) and even kill a buffed infil in melee no PA or uber evade just atack him and see him die after a few hard hits.

Envenon 17 (+5) 22 debuff stre/con - disease lvl 16
Stealth 19 (+5) max 24 thid sth so u can easy travel,find enemies
CStrike 21 (+5) Pa + garrote + garrote (u still alive?) + garrote
Sword 10 (+5) just to get dmg or use one hit med endurance (assault)
LAxe 1 (+5) Really not gimp dmg but help haste effect whit a speed LA

If u land ur PA a enemy badly survive a melee battle , if u 2H Pa , change 2wep for a lethal+disease+debuff ur enemy even a slash infil not got much chance of win.

This is Bg spec after lv a few u start to notice the nerf on ur mainhand wep dmg if u not raise LA.
 

Thugs

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Mar 8, 2004
Messages
986
Spec

Nice looking spec that where u are utilizing the 22 debuff poison. You also got the perf attack. A lot of sbs should try that i reckon. Only thing i can see that will cause problems is the 2 weapon damage (not the 2 handed damage) - will be very low. But looks like you use the 2 weapons just to get the poison in.

I kind of simplified things so that i never pause - just scan, pick up an enemy and start the melee attack. I nearly always hit first so i get my debuff off first also.

My spec above is hopeless really for casters but against other stealthers and warriors (the ones i hunt for) it does extremely well. Though i notice i gotta keep in practise or i can get in a right muddle at times :) .

PKJ
 

Mikal

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Dec 24, 2003
Messages
108
good info, but some off it I must say is bad too. You say that the beginner thid SB goes for high CS, then in combat just perfs and stands there. Which is very colourfull way of describing that spec I must say. I had a sb in thid with high cs/sword and low envenom. And in the time I played him there, capped him, rerolled and capped again, I only EVER lost 3 one on one fights, against a mercenary, against an armsman, and agains a nightshade (scary I know)

it was a simple spec I admit and didn't require much, but it worked very well. Was garroting infils for a good 100-120 damage, which is quite a bit more than unbuffed infils would PA me for. Unlike what you say it didn't last 6 secs before I hit again (not sure how you figured that seeing as the slowest craftable 2h weapon is like 5.4 spd, and that you are using 2h yourself by your own words) but with a good 150+ qui and maybe even haste from a friendly healer, it was closer to 3 sec swingspeed.

I'd actually say that 2h is the best choice for sb's in thid for several reasons.
Infils haven't yet the full use of their extra spec points, so if they spec high in weapon and dual wield, they have to forsake other skills (much like sb's at lvl 50)
and at lvl 20 assassin only have evade 2, so it's not that big a deal whether you use 2 weapons against them to half their evade or not
LA is REALLY bad at low specs, I'd guess at 8 LA you'd do more damage in melee if you just used one 1h weapon, ofcourse you couldn't use two poisons then
 

Thugs

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Mar 8, 2004
Messages
986
Bad advice?

Not really m8.

Beginners are that - beginners. No buffs, no mega quickness and no haste. Some infact use the Morning Rage axe - 6 speed. So my comment on upto 6 secs was accurate if they used that.

You are an advanced sb with great spec, great gear and haste too boot. Not surprising you only lost to a few. Infact there seem to be less infs about now than there used to be and a lot are not well equipped either.

My info is based on going against a fully cleric af buffed high poison slash/thrust inf. Not many can take them out consistantly but sounds like you could. But a few evades when wielding a 2 hander and you can kiss your arse goodbye in a lotta cases. Just some fights go extremely well with it and some don't.

PKJ
 

Thugs

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Mar 8, 2004
Messages
986
Different approach.

Not knocking anybodies spec. Just put down my approach which might be a little different for peeps to consider trying. Certainly works for me but i know it will not work for many. Would have ditched weapon swapping and poison use myself (infact i have done on my level 50 sbs to try it) but damage drops a hell offa lot so i have had to return to it.

PKJ
 

Lord-Pelu

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Mar 3, 2004
Messages
17
just a few words i forget :)

My ShadowBlade was a kobold , not the almighty norseman (80 stre start) , but in BG kobold got nice dex , quick and whit Scted suit even nice stre ( nice idea get aug stre lvl1 ) u really hits fast whit a short draven sword + fast left axe , dont mind much about uber slow dmg wep , Realls Sb wins Vs other sth coz they hits fast , so for BG1 hits fast make u win even againts a trusth wep infil/ns or a Paladin , the 2h is the only one u need to get whit heavy DPS for Pa Big targets and change for fast attacks.
Just the last possible tips can be use firt disease strike (if u 2H) + debuff +poisson on 2wep combo atacks , if u attack a group target avoid he can be healed fast and u can even kill him if miss Pa (some times if happens :p) and garrote him to death (garrote snare + disease lower stre + debuff lower stre) ur target if not gonna face u , can get hard time to run away :twak:
 

goasucks

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Aug 5, 2004
Messages
12
Interesting. How do you get to this spec?

25 stealth
25 axe
25 poison
8 la
 

Thugs

Fledgling Freddie
Joined
Mar 8, 2004
Messages
986
Spec

I did make a mistake on the stealth cos you only need 24 really - 19+5.

My spec should have been:

Stealth 19+5= 24
Axe 20+5 = 25
Poison 20+5 = 25 (you can use 25 lethal even though you are only 24)
la of 6+5=11

Use the link below to create your alts cos it is brilliant.

http://daoc.catacombs.com/cbuilder15.cfm

PKJ
 

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