How to check if a tactics is legal?

Esselinithia

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As you might know, the game often offers possibilities that are beyound what the developers imagined and planned, some of these are prefectly legal, and get accepted and used widely, one example for this is buffbots, others like using terrain to prevent attacks from monsters are illegal. Sending a pet into an undestroyed keep piece without providing any chance for the attacked people to retaliate can happen and still accepted, etc. you can question when an idea is legal and intentional from the developer, when it was overlooked but is useable and when it would be bug abuse. We are asked to check with official people before using such advantages.

Most official people play the game, and we don't know which realm they are in, and about RVR plans it isn't wise to speak with the people you plan to attack, or you would like to defend against. As you see if you have a nice idea about making a relic raid faster and enhance the surprise element, but you have to ask an admin about some tactical elements, the two requirements contradict each other.

Lets see an example scenario.
There is a rule saying: 1 siege engine per gate. You are in a realm with 2 classes that can climb walls (Albs: Infiltrator and Minstrel, Hibs: Vampiir and NS) and decide you can set up a ram at inner door before outer wall is breached, or probably attack bultiple doors on the same keep at once. The idea isn't used widely, and when you did it, and maybe even remove the ram from the way, your people are already inside. Someone sees the outer wall isn't breached yet but the inner gate is down and assassins are inside keep, and doesn't know what happens and reports the issue, what would happen? Would the GMs investigate? Would they decide that climbing with siege engines is a bit unrealistic? Would they check how you did destroy the gate, or would think it is unfair? Would say climb walls is here and it is fair? As you see it is hard to predict.

If you ask a GM and he plays in the realm you plan to attack, you warn him about a planned relic raid, and also about the tactics and your surprise element is gone, and people will have contingency plans to defend from such attacks... If you don't ask, that is another problem. How you can find a solution to this problem? There are quite a few such questions can arise.
 

Zenythe

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First point, the tactic you mentioned specificly has been used, used, used again and then used some more.

Second point, Goa trust us with tools to do everything up to and including shutting down the servers, creating quests, creating monsters and manipulating character data... do we twink our personal characters? No. Do my characters have perfect templates just because I CAN create the items for it? No ... Do you really honestly think I personally give a rats tail about this special uber tactic beyond whether it's abusing the game mechanics?

Basicly you are saying you want a realm and server poll by the GM's so we can open ourselves up to being accused of favouritism, and cross realming... umm no thanks. Not to mention I personally do play this game to play it, do you even comprehend how difficult it would make playing my personal characters if everyone knew who they were?

Besides the point after three years do you really think you have come up with something that someone hasn't thought of?
 

Void959

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I don't there's s nearly as much of a problem as you're making out. Whilst there are lots of examples such as you have described, they all fall into two categories, the first is to acheiving things that were not intended in the game design by exploiation of the game engine itself, and the second is acheiving things that were not intended in the game design by exploiting only the design.

IMO there's no question about it, all those in the first category, "using terrain to prevent attacks from monsters" AND "sending a pet into an undestroyed keep piece without providing any chance for the attacked people to retaliate" should all be illegal; the only reason they are possible is because changes to prevent them would require excessively large changes to the game design that the devs do not have time for, or in some cases are to lazy to do.

The second category (buffbots etc) is entirely subjective, as it does not involve directly exploiting the games engine in any way, so what you view as an exploit may just be viewed as logical and/or clever tactics by another player. These should therefore all be legal, though certainly not encouraged. Your example, regardless of how lame or unfair you consider it, is not exploiting any facet of the games engine design and therefore is perfectly fine. To follow it through: walls are intended to keep people out, anybody with climb walls is therefore not meant to be kept out, to them it is as if the walls are simply not there, so they should be able to act exactly as they would ordinarily, which means putting up rams on the inner gate if they wish.
 

Esselinithia

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Zenythe: Interesting, I never seen the above tactics, and when asked people about it, they were surprised. And you can guess if it is about tactics that shouldn't be made public, it won't be fully detailed here by all people who have such ideas. The amount of big sieges on some servers since NF can limit the number of possible such sieges, but I don't doubt with the amount of servers, and the different ideas of them and different communities that some ideas surprising in one place can be common on the other place. Yet new ideas are born everyday, and I doubt you haven't ever seen/heard about a new idea that surprised you. Not to mention players who seen far less servers, far less problems and when a such idea is planned for theif first raid, and unsure about it and contact you... and you learn a raid is coming.

I know you don't want to abuse stuff, and when you plan to use new ideas of creative players you probably tell the player in advance, but it is hard to pretend you don't know about a raid when you do know about it. If it would be about yout intentions and goals I wouldn't consider it as a problem, since for you fair play is important. It is about it is highly impossible to judge when you would see the raid coming without the information, and if the raid loses surprise element, it would be just easy to blame you about favoritims than it would be for listing your realms...

And while telling where would you play would cause a problem with it, ability to send an email to an email like albion@prydwen.goa.com or a special area on rightnow, or a special subforum here where you would get answer from an admin (anonymously) who plays in the same realm wouldn't raise any such problems, right?

Besides the point after three years do you really think you have come up with something that someone hasn't thought of?[/quoute]

If TOA, NF, Catacombs classes, etc wouldn't add new possibilities to the game, it would be harder to come to such ideas. It would mean the new players face a big disadvantage since they don't know old tricks already, luckily Mythic made a good effort to change enough elements of the game and make it "new" and good for new players. Would you say, all ideas TOA and Catacombs can offer are already explored? All the tactics that is possible in NF is already used?
 

Esselinithia

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Ctuchik said:
well, that post was a nice way of showing u dont trust the GM's...

nice going.
It isn't about trusting them, or not trusting them. it is about an old thing probably known to all people who played traditional pen and paper rpgs. Not once, a DM asks a player, how come your fighter already knows, that fire can kill the troll blows can't. The player knows it already from other characters. The player can say: Not trying some ideas while trying others just because I know stuff from the other time would be just as bad as using fire first. So at some time the character could use the idea. Handling this scenario efficiently is hard.

Yet, even if you think a GM is above problems that doesn't have a solid answer, not even for people who are playing, running and designing roleplaying games for several years, there is another question. If a players asks about a such tactics, then he sees the surprise isn't working what would he assume and who would he blame? You think all would be happy with it? It is just as dangerous for breaking the trust as posting the realms for the GMs, which they consider risky.

Personally I wouldn't care if Zenythe would use my ideas, or Requiel would do it, since they are wasting time on our needs, and when helping raids, they help all sides, etc. so if a such thing can help them, well a raid can be repeated. But I wouldn't like if they wouldn't recognize some stuff, because they heard about it before, and it is hard to know when they would understand it on their own. It would ruin the game for them, and would hurt the people who trust them as players and trust their skills.

And would be just as angry when someone would say: X realm knew about the plan because of an admin, if one of my friends would discover the plan and some would accuse admins wrongly. Or when in a similar situations friends would ask why I told an admin about something before...

Same problem, different sides, and this is why one should think for a good way to solve it without revealing character names, or realms, etc for the poor GMs.
 

Void959

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Esselinithia said:
Would you say, all ideas TOA and Catacombs can offer are already explored? All the tactics that is possible in NF is already used?
Where the tactics concered are tactics that are so highly questionable and would have such a large effect on the success of the raid that players feel it neccessary to ask a GM about it before using it or risk being punished, I would say quite definately Yes, they are exhausted.
 

Ctuchik

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Esselinithia said:
It isn't about trusting them, or not trusting them. it is about an old thing probably known to all people who played traditional pen and paper rpgs. Not once, a DM asks a player, how come your fighter already knows, that fire can kill the troll blows can't. The player knows it already from other characters. The player can say: Not trying some ideas while trying others just because I know stuff from the other time would be just as bad as using fire first. So at some time the character could use the idea. Handling this scenario efficiently is hard.

Yet, even if you think a GM is above problems that doesn't have a solid answer, not even for people who are playing, running and designing roleplaying games for several years, there is another question. If a players asks about a such tactics, then he sees the surprise isn't working what would he assume and who would he blame? You think all would be happy with it? It is just as dangerous for breaking the trust as posting the realms for the GMs, which they consider risky.

Personally I wouldn't care if Zenythe would use my ideas, or Requiel would do it, since they are wasting time on our needs, and when helping raids, they help all sides, etc. so if a such thing can help them, well a raid can be repeated. But I wouldn't like if they wouldn't recognize some stuff, because they heard about it before, and it is hard to know when they would understand it on their own. It would ruin the game for them, and would hurt the people who trust them as players and trust their skills.

And would be just as angry when someone would say: X realm knew about the plan because of an admin, if one of my friends would discover the plan and some would accuse admins wrongly. Or when in a similar situations friends would ask why I told an admin about something before...

Same problem, different sides, and this is why one should think for a good way to solve it without revealing character names, or realms, etc for the poor GMs.


what exactly are we worried about here? that some GM might steal your ideas or that they would blab about a possible RR when you are asking for advice about possible punishable tacktics??

and u say its not about trust. well this second post of yours shows it IS about trust. YOU dont trust the GM's to not be biased towards their "enemy realms" when playing their main char. if u were trusting them u wouldent have been "forced" to ask this question.

u know, they dont even have to SPEAK to u to be able to steal your "wtfpwn" ideas. all they need to do is read the chatlogs when u discuss them with whoever ingame... highly unrealistic but possible.

and yes. they are ALL out to get u!

and how do u know the person that answers ur "anon mail" acually plays on the same realm as u do?
 

Esselinithia

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Void959 said:
Where the tactics concered are tactics that are so highly questionable and would have such a large effect on the success of the raid that players feel it neccessary to ask a GM about it before using it or risk being punished, I would say quite definately Yes, they are exhausted.
Some tought tent groups are legal and noone should ask about them, yet they found out abusive, and some others tought it is best to report them. The line where you would ask a GM not only because you fear actions against your account (the first action would be a warning anyway) but about possible relic / keep reset (or even worse: A reset for preceived abuse, and another if it found out the trick used was legal), are another case. When you ask about a topic because you don't know if it is fair or ok by the standards of GMs, since it can look a bit unfair that is another case.

And for players who join on the 14 days trial CDs most of these tactics are new, and there are realms where most of the experienced people left, and such questions might be asked again. And even asking about a known tactics can give away a relic raid plan. And it can create tensions.
 

IainC

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I guarantee you that between the hundreds of thousands of DAoC gamers on all the servers, here in Europe, in the US and in other countries worldwide, there really truly is nothing new under the sun.
Using your example of the stealth keep take, I remember at least one successful relic raid (in OF) using those tactics and I myself have been present for an unsuccessful one about a year and a half ago. As far as us stealing your ideas or using info about possible raids on our own characters goes, consider the following points:
1: If I really wanted to know what an enemy realm was up to, I could pull the logs for known raid leaders and se what they were talking about.
2: When I'm ingame as a GM, I get /broadcast chat from all realms (as I don't belong to a player realm) so I know exactly what's going on in Svasud, Sauvage and DL at the same time.
3: Over at Prydwen.net the nice folks there have given me free reign. This means I can access all the forums including the Hib secret planning boards. I play a different realm on Pryd and so I make a point of not reading those boards in case I see something I shouldn't. When I have seen things that I shouldn't I've kept my mouth shut until the Hib plans become common knowledge.

Really, having players ask us about tactics is the least effective way of spying on other realms.
 

Corran

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Requiel said:
.
3: Over at Prydwen.net the nice folks there have given me free reign. This means I can access all the forums including the Hib secret planning boards. I play a different realm on Pryd and so I make a point of not reading those boards in case I see something I shouldn't. When I have seen things that I shouldn't I've kept my mouth shut until the Hib plans become common knowledge.

Really, having players ask us about tactics is the least effective way of spying on other realms.
Muhahahahah. Now all we got to do is eliminate one more possible realm and we got you Requiel :D I bet you are one of us zerging albs :p

.. yep still bored :p
 

Tilda

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Esselinithia, as I said on irc, this really is a stupid discussion.
Firstly as the GM's have already said, they couldnt care less, and there are far easier ways for them to find out what realm leaders are planning.
My take, is firstly what the GM's have said, but also, what are the chances that you, one charachter, talk to a GM(possibility of 3-4), then reveal your uber wtfpwn tactic to them, then plan a raid to use the uber wtfpwn tactic, and then the chances that aforementioned GM is around, on his home realm, involved in countering your raid, and acctually notices/cares that you used your uber wtfpwn tactic and counters it. I'd said that Fergie has a better chances of becomming the next monarch tbh...
 

xxManiacxx

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stealth keep takes have been going on forever. Have been multiple stealth RRs both in EU and US.
 

Esselinithia

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xxManiacxx said:
stealth keep takes have been going on forever. Have been multiple stealth RRs both in EU and US.
A stealth keep take that is done with only stealthers, and using stealthers to set up 2/3 rams for a traditional zerg is different, and the later can make keep take faster, and this speed improvement is important since in NF the keep takes and relic raids are considered slow. As you see there is a small difference here (and also if you add how would this group reduce kill spams, etc, and how to prevent defenders from reaching keep in time and setting up their defenses it would be much more different.

Yet this tactics was choosen for one reason: Because it is very similar to many known stuff, but just uses a relatively unused combination of existint smaller elements. A stealher keeptake / relicraid in OF is very different, than using stealthers in a normally non stealth raid with full size zerg, to reduce the effects of 1 ram / gate limitation introduced in NF. Your goals are different, yes people used stealthers before but for very different reasons, with different group setups, etc.
 

Koyochi

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There is something seriously wrong with you, if you think the gm's are more concerned with "winning the war" in the game with their characters, rather then letting the game run smooth for as much players (aka customers) as possible. I'm sure that they can really sort those priorities as we would expect them, or else they would not have the jobs they have now.
 

Esselinithia

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Requiel said:
I guarantee you that between the hundreds of thousands of DAoC gamers on all the servers, here in Europe, in the US and in other countries worldwide, there really truly is nothing new under the sun.
Using your example of the stealth keep take, I remember at least one successful relic raid (in OF) using those tactics and I myself have been present for an unsuccessful one about a year and a half ago. As far as us stealing your ideas or using info about possible raids on our own characters goes, consider the following points:
1st: Requiel, lets see it, if you want to cheat / steal ideas / spy, you have easier ways, if you DON'T want it, but you do hear some information it is much harder to ignore it, this is why you avoid seeing most of the hib secret boards. The key is: you do your best to avoid seeing stuff that can ruin your game, or can give you an advantage. For this goal setting up a new email addy / new question group on rightnow / new forum (I can donate the web space for it) isn't a big sacrifice.

2nd: I don't care if You or Zenythe uses the tactics I asked about, in fact I would be happy to see that happen. And if we will speak about it in private you will see why it is new. And I will send you a PM and you can judge if the idea is new to most people, and please post your feelings about it after that.

What I wouldn't like to see half of Hibernia/prydwen using the idea, and their current dominant status reinforced by it. This is why we don't discuss the idea here. But you are sure nothing new will happen? I think people will discover some ideas, and judging them as old without hearing them first isn't wise.
 

Awarkle

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when i went for the job with blizard they basically told me under no circumstances EVER let any in game people know that your a GM.

If you found out tommorow who requiel or zenthe or any of the gms were in real life on the servers wouldnt you ask them favours. If they beat you in a fight in rvr wouldnt you instantly spout OMG CHEAT.

The only protection gms have is to be unknown its like finding out who the judge and jury for your crime are going to be weeks in advance of you being caught.

I suspect that the GMs answer to someone we never see a boss as it where who may have nothing to do with the game but still gets reports on what commands the gms have been using. Thus if they saw that Say Zenthe had spawned eremai 30 times in the space of 10 minutes wouldnt the boss ask zenthe into the office and explain why eremai spawned 30 times.

Just because other people would abuse their powers if given them doesnt mean everyone else would. GMs are in a position of trust if they abuse that trust they probbly would never work in the GamesMaster position. You forget the games industry is quite small and word of mouth spreads quickly.
 

Flimgoblin

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simple question:

If you could spawn all the artifact monsters at will and create items for your character at will, and even set its xp at will...

would you:

A: do that at the risk of losing your job?

or even

B: do that given that it completely ruins the point of the game?

It's like buying a game and putting in a cheat code that shows you the end credits... why bother?

I know I certainly wouldn't.

There are people out there that would I'm sure but I imagine they'd not get a job as a GM ;)
 

Esselinithia

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Flimgoblin said:
simple question:

If you could spawn all the artifact monsters at will and create items for your character at will, and even set its xp at will...

would you:

A: do that at the risk of losing your job?

or even

B: do that given that it completely ruins the point of the game?

It's like buying a game and putting in a cheat code that shows you the end credits... why bother?

I know I certainly wouldn't.

There are people out there that would I'm sure but I imagine they'd not get a job as a GM ;)
Filmgoblin: I think intentional cheating and knowing some ideas that can be surprise to many is different, and I know about an idea told to a gamemaster recently, that according to his response was new to him, and the idea is usefull. AND he told me he will use it, and I was happy to hear that. Yet since the idea is easy to copy within members of same realm, and hard to copy by enemies, I wouldn't be happy if hibs on prydwen would start using it en mass, and friends would blame my idea for added problems.

It has nothing to do with cheating.

It has nothing to do with abusing information.

It has nothing to do with something the GM cannot use.

It is about spreading information in a way you can't foresee.
I think there are 2 ways to react to this problem: "OK, if there is new information and would like to use email / rightnow to ask about it without letting members of enemy realms know about it, starting a new rightnow category or a way to label questions doesn't cost anything" way, and going defensive.
 

Flimgoblin

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there have been incidents of someone being told about a relic raid by a cross-realm person and they've just logged out for that day.
 

Esselinithia

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Tilda said:
Esselinithia, as I said on irc, this really is a stupid discussion.
...
I'd said that Fergie has a better chances of becomming the next monarch tbh...
Tilda: and as I said, without knowing the tactics we are talking about you don't know how global or local the effects how it is constrained in time, etc. I can assure you about 4 things.
  1. Asking a GM about it was mandatory, since it is VERY borderline stuff
  2. The GM said it is legal, new idea and he will use it
  3. The effects are visible in long run
  4. The idea isn't discussed here, and won't be brought here unless a GM after further discussion declares the use of idea illegal
Why it would be illegal?
Circumventing a limitation is in most cases illegal, while circumventing something designed to make your life easier can make your life harder but sometimes more effective. The question is, that some change noted in patch notes is considered limitation or a such feature. The current ruling says it is legal in EU edition.

And the thing is simple: if the GMs who learnt the idea from me use it either in EU edition or in US edition, or any CSR of US edition uses it on his player character I am happy and glad that it helped. (Yet if I face them using the same idea I would be very quiet but would think: this alb plan won't work because of ... using this idea. And would be happy since it works.) When half of hibernia on prydwen would learn it, I would say it is inevitable. If some friends ask, how come hib/pryd uses your idea, but within your own home realm it is limited to friend, and how loyal I am to the realm and to friends concerned about these efforts I would be less happy. And I think if supporting such questions on rightnow costs nothing, and it prevents that scenario it is a valid suggestion.

One can decide to listen to it, to consider it, to show it has drawbacks and say one should be carefull with it. I think if Requiel reads the idea he will think it is new and mostly unknown too, but I can understand if he says such ideas are rare, and if it is a good idea and I am happy if they are using it, there is no point for starting a rightnow topic for it, but maybe if a player asks about some idea sensitive this way he should ask the GM if it is OK to speak about such stuff. I am 100% confident in that, if one says the stuff you ask aboutisn't for hib/pryd population all GMs would respect that and if they would play on such servers they would tell it in time. Yet, since I see no costs associated with opening email addies, rightnow topics, etc. I think showing good will by opening a such topic is easy.

Or one can go defensive, and say, the new ideas that are new to one GM are already overused since relase of daoc beta and how would we accuse GMs for abusing their powers and how bad the player is, etc. can get nowhere but a flame war. Yes, I know such suggestions without details can be good for wild guesses and can be tought as a sign of mistrust, or can stirr trouble, so it is normally better to suggest improvements of rightnow on rightnow itself, where it can't turn into this kind of topic, but atm for some reasons my game and rightnow password is different and rightnow doesn't work...
 

Esselinithia

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Filmgoblin: If you can tell me which realm you play in in private you can hear the idea and will probably see, why I said, it has long term effects. But as I said: GM can use the idea. Half of an Enemy realm, when in our realm we guard it as a small secret and not tell everyone about it would be a problem. But I think the GMs know the value of good tactics too ;)
 

LawBringer

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Having been a GM in an FPS game I will say this, you would not last 3s as a GM if you were off passing information to another team. GMs are given a postition of trust because they are trustworthy, just because you would cheat/steal/lie don't assume everyone else does.

As for exploiting a game, hey look at real life - if everyone just did the right thing we would need no rules/law human nature is to take the path of least resistance, we all have our own values some ppl will exploit a loophole and feel no guilt. I see ppl using pathing bugs and other exploits, all the time - some stop as soon as you point it out others give you loads of abuse, some ignore me. Just apply this simple test to everything "If it seems to good to be true, it probably is"
 

Muylaetrix

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stealth keep/relic takes... agh

they bring back memories.

Like the one time my mate was carrying a ram with his infiltrator into the courtyard... and then his BB went ld... leaving him there perma rooted in stealth in the center of an enemy keep...

Hilarious.

Been there, done that.
 

Esselinithia

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LawBringer: Sadly in daoc it is a bit more difficult question, but it is likely that the whole issue will be cleared up by Mythic stoping this possibility, and if it doesn't happen, chances are still high that the idea can be made fully public for some other reasons. At the moment RVR in one of the english servers went totally one sided, and it is hard to maintain what other sides have, any advantage that makes long term RVR efforts more fficient and provide a small advantage is important for the two weaker realms, this is why I wouldn't like to see the idea widely used by the dominant realm. Since I play on different servers, and can use the idea on multiple servers in time, the trick sooner or later gets out.

The question is: If a GM who heard about it uses it on hib/prydwen which is prefectly OK, they are GMs and they can use, and when one of them said he will use I was happy with the idea, how many people will learn from them, and if it will unbalance the situation on prydwen even more.
 

Tiques

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Take into account that most GMs seem to usually be happy to stop something they are doing to go to a urgent need for them, I do however think that sometimes when E&E says there are non online, that those online are just busy, which is ofc fine.

With the willingness I've seen from GMs to sacrifise spare time to help people, I really doubt they are the ones who have enough resources left elseway to lead raids.
I see them as the quite realm member who go to a few raids and slowly try and get their items, I could be wrong, but that is my clear impression on them.

And as the EE team can see if somebody is online (ICQ I guess), I take they wouldnt want them to know their ingame names either, and it wouldnt take more than an average intelligence person to figure who they where, if they was unable to help when person XXX was doing raids.

Beside the fact that I dont think they lead raids, I have enough trust in my GMs to think they dont abuse their powers to spy on other realms, I have had accounts active in 2 realms on the same server ones and there is something called moral that keeps you from using "illegal" information, if realm X is RR'ing realm Y on prydwen and I know, but dont want to go RR'ing, I'll go to another server, think GMs would be much the same...
 

Thorwyn

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The question is: If a GM who heard about it uses it on hib/prydwen which is prefectly OK, they are GMs and they can use, and when one of them said he will use I was happy with the idea, how many people will learn from them, and if it will unbalance the situation on prydwen even more.
Sorry, I didn´t read the entire thread, but I guess your problem can be accumulated in this above quote?!

Unless your "trick" is a way of how to take an enemy keep with 1 guy while remaining stealthed and in instant time, I think you´re concerned about the wrong threats. Tricks like this will leak out after they´ve been successful once. Don´t tell me that your 15 (or whatever the number is) mates that you need to pull this trick are completely and 100% relyable. (yeah, of course they are, just like all the completely and 100% relyable people who´ve got a "OMG MY ACCOUNT HAS BEEN HACKED" dedicated to them.)

Telling your trick to a GM for a legal-check doesn´t increase the probability of this trick getting popular at all. If you don´t trust the GM`s because they´re playing DAOC themselves, you can always RightNow the question. There´s absolutely no need to use the step of asking a GM, that´s what RightNow is for. Oh wait... but maybe the RightNow Service dude is playing DAOC on Excal!? You never know. It´s all a huge conspiracy! ;)

I`m not quite sure what you´re expecting with this thread. Do you expet the GM´s to tell you "yes, we´re abusing every tactic and secret informations we get because we can"? Or would you trust a GM more if he replied to this thread with: "no, of course we´re all trustworthy people"? And how do you know if he´s telling you the truth? Would you prefer to not have any GM`s at all, respectively some dudes with the power to do everything but no clue about what´s going on?
 

Tilda

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Tiques said:
Take into account that most GMs seem to usually be happy to stop something they are doing to go to a urgent need for them, I do however think that sometimes when E&E says there are non online, that those online are just busy, which is ofc fine.
I can asure you 100%, that if I say there are no GM's online, there are none visible the way I look for them. If they choose to not be seen theres nothing the E&E can do about it, but at no time has a GM ever said to me, sorry tell the guy whos stuck in a wall there are no GM's around, im busy coding or whatever.

[QUOTE='Thorwyn[B&Q]I`m not quite sure what you´re expecting with this thread. Do you expet the GM´s to tell you "yes, we´re abusing every tactic and secret informations we get because we can"? Or would you trust a GM more if he replied to this thread with: "no, of course we´re all trustworthy people"? And how do you know if he´s telling you the truth? Would you prefer to not have any GM`s at all, respectively some dudes with the power to do everything but no clue about what´s going on?[/QUOTE]

I agree totally, i'm not quite sure what Esse's hoping to acchieve by posting here, its a pedantic complaint about a non-existant issue which is going to have no effect.
 

Esselinithia

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No, I expect: "If the question title says alb/pryd tactics legality check" on rightnow it will be read by people who are playing in a such realm. GMs doesn't abuse the secrets, but the word will still spread.

When after a lot of high rr people left, there were about noone in alb/pryd who paid for keep repairs from usual fund, etc. and small guilds started to spend more and more money and had to farm more and more, and regardless what they did things started getting one sided, it was more than natural to think about what advantages albion/prydwen can have. The advantage is pretty significant in some cases and pretty small in other cases.
 

Tilda

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I think thats an unrealistic expectation. There are 3 GMs who work the English servers and a 4th for camlann. There a possible 9 combinations of realms who could ask questions. Firstly its unrealistic to force the GM's to play their own charachters on a specific realm so they can answer questions about it. Secondly if you cant do that, who will pay for the other 5/6 GM's needed just to ensure that you can check your tactics...
Thirdly, you dont think that the GM's might discuss particular RN's if they're unsure, further increasing the chances that one of these <sarcasm> dishonest, cheating GM's </sarcasm> might get their hands on your uber game changing tactics. So now we need 3 GM's per server, and for them to work in different rooms with no contact allowed just to ensure security.
Its a game ffs, get a fucking grip, you can use your uber tactic if you want, but the security of your tactics in the hands of the GM team is a patheticly pointless whine.

Get a grip, if you think that the GM's have nothing better to do than spy on players, and copy your tactics for their advantage, you really really need a reality check.
 

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