How Many Days Should We Get Refuned For Lag

SkarIronfist

Fledgling Freddie
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Dec 22, 2003
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Well now that we have a potential fix to the lag (Lets see if the fix works).

How many days should we be refunded for the unplayable conditions of TOA Pyrdwen.

Personally I think that anyone with an account on Pyrdwen, should be refunded every day since TOA came out. I don't want to exclude Hibs and Albs on ther server since I am not sure what their situation has been like.

I think it is about 27 days (OR all chars get bumped to ML3), I am not fussed which, either is acceptable.

Basically my reasoning is simple, TOA on Pyrdwen (Midgard) has been unplayable since it became available. Therefore we have wasted a months worth of our subscription fees on a product that is unfit for purpose.

We should not be now sitting at our PCs at the moment, basically grateful that the LAG has been reduced to playable levels. Restitution is required.

Lets be honest GOA, could really do with some positive PR on this server.

PS - When am I going to get my points refunded for that hot fix which nerfed MW and turned my runie back into a wannabe Friar.

PPS - Kemor - See if you can rustle up the budget for a Sun Starfire cluster (16 CPU per server version please) to replace Pyrdwen.
 

Fafnir

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SkarIronfist said:
I think it is about 27 days (OR all chars get bumped to ML3), I am not fussed which, either is acceptable.
I've asked for credit for 3.4 and 3.10 due to the bugged mob at 3.4 that has fallen thru the floor every raid i've been on, but killed medusa anyway. but still goa answers they wont give trial credits. Thats why i cancelled my autorenewal. Cant be arsed to keep running ml3 raids due to the chance mob will fall thru the floor once again. A mate has runned 7 ml3 trails and still not got 3.4

The answer i got.

Greetings again,

As said, we cannot grant credit for encounters. The point of reporting these problems is for us to fix it so that it will not happen again, once fixed.

Yours sincerely,
---------------------------------------------
European Dark Age of Camelot Community Manager

Greetings,

The problem with Laodamedia going under the floor from time to time is being investigated. This said, we cannot grant credit for the encounter even though there was an issue with it.



Yours sincerely,
---------------------------------------------
European Dark Age of Camelot Community Manager
 

Makwaerk

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Fafnir I have SS of a chat with kemor you should see!!!

A normal Firm would give us refund since day 1 of ToA, do I have very little faith left in Goa
 

Fafnir

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Makwaerk said:
Fafnir I have SS of a chat with kemor you should see!!!

A normal Firm would give us refund since day 1 of ToA, do I have very little faith left in Goa
Well they really now how to keep players happy now dont they.
 

Prudil

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458
Imo

...the bigest problem were facing is the other realms benefit of lag free zones making them far more ahead then us - ML wise. Soon hordes of Artifacted ML7+ albs will be hammering our relic doors - while mids are still strugeling with ML3/scrolls/Artis. Mids wont be seen much in the frontiers from now, thats for sure.

Highest mid = ML7 atm afaik
 

haarewin

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Fafnir said:
I've asked for credit for 3.4 and 3.10 due to the bugged mob at 3.4 that has fallen thru the floor every raid i've been on, but killed medusa anyway. but still goa answers they wont give trial credits. Thats why i cancelled my autorenewal. Cant be arsed to keep running ml3 raids due to the chance mob will fall thru the floor once again. A mate has runned 7 ml3 trails and still not got 3.4

The answer i got.

Greetings again,

As said, we cannot grant credit for encounters. The point of reporting these problems is for us to fix it so that it will not happen again, once fixed.

Yours sincerely,
---------------------------------------------
European Dark Age of Camelot Community Manager

Greetings,

The problem with Laodamedia going under the floor from time to time is being investigated. This said, we cannot grant credit for the encounter even though there was an issue with it.



Yours sincerely,
---------------------------------------------
European Dark Age of Camelot Community Manager


i really think its that they cannot give credit for encounter steps, rather than them not wanting to. and its understandable if they could, but didnt want to, as it'd likely result in people getting credit for ml steps they havent done.
 

Jupitus

Old and short, no wonder I'm grumpy!
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Prudil said:
Imo

...the bigest problem were facing is the other realms benefit of lag free zones making them far more ahead then us - ML wise. Soon hordes of Artifacted ML7+ albs will be hammering our relic doors - while mids are still strugeling with ML3/scrolls/Artis. Mids wont be seen much in the frontiers from now, thats for sure.

Highest mid = ML7 atm afaik

Finally justice is done... payback for original release when Midgard was spewing out fully kitted level 50s while Albion didn't have an item hunting ground for stuff over level 35 or so :twak:
 

Dook

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Jupitus said:
Finally justice is done... payback for original release when Midgard was spewing out fully kitted level 50s while Albion didn't have an item hunting ground for stuff over level 35 or so :twak:

Ha! You took the words right out of my mouth! ;)

Nah seriously though - I think you should get an extra 20 days or so on your accounts atleast. I thought you were all just being whiney little Mids until I logged into an SI zone on a friends account on Mid/Pry... It's like lag that SHOULD make you LD yet DOESN'T make you LD. Does that make sense? Oo

Feel sorry for you guys tbh :x
 

old.Whoodoo

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While I feel for those who have wasted time on these encouters, giving away free days to every single player on every single server is not good in my eye.

Already there are ML10 peeps out there, and others who have 2 3 or 4 artifacts at level 10 too. Why give them a free day too? Its virtually impossible to narrow down the accounts that are Prydwen only, and lets face it, 99% of people can and do play on other servers.

Dont get me wrong, Im not saying you shouldnt get compensated for the greif, but be logical about it, ask for something half sensible.

Here are a few things that can be thrown back at you for asking what you have impied:

  • ToA is an expansion, and only a small part of the game, the game itself is running.
  • If we give Prydwen compesation, we must give all others too.
  • We cannot seperate who are Prydwen players only, we cannot justify giving all players compensation.
  • We are not responsible for all the lag issues, much of it is due to players hardware.
  • Errors encountered can be down to coding problems, these are down to Mythic and not under our control.
  • These problems are fixed in the next patch.
These are not my excuses, but are the kind of thing any business can reply with, not just GOA.

And before anyone starts on the "replace GOA issue" again, what if it happened, and the new host was worse?

I still think GOA do a great job hosting DAoC, and only a minority of people think otherwise. You may think you speak for the majority of people on your server, but I tend to think that most people dont give a crap if theres a bug, they just move on with life.
 

chretien

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From the Ts & Cs on the Camelot-Europe site:
Neither GOA nor any person or entity involved in creating, producing, editing or distributing all contents or services related to DAOC, nor any of their respective directors, managers, employees or agents, can make any guarantees whatsoever, in particular regarding the results that may be obtained by using your Player Account or the ability of your Player Account to work without interruption or error.
 

Mikal

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old.Whoodoo said:
  • ToA is an expansion, and only a small part of the game, the game itself is running.
  • If we give Prydwen compesation, we must give all others too.
  • We cannot seperate who are Prydwen players only, we cannot justify giving all players compensation.
  • We are not responsible for all the lag issues, much of it is due to players hardware.
  • Errors encountered can be down to coding problems, these are down to Mythic and not under our control.
  • These problems are fixed in the next patch.
These are not my excuses, but are the kind of thing any business can reply with, not just GOA.

I can agree with the two first points, but it has been proofed and GOA has admitted that the lag issues were server side problems and not the usual connection or hardware problems on the players' side
it most likely not a coding problem, Mythic did not have this problem and neither have any of the other servers in EU. And while it might be fixed next patch, the problem is right here right now. It might be good and valid reasons for most companies in most cases, but that doesn't help us, it's GOA and prydwen that has had the problems, to H*** with what other companies might say then.

while I don't think it would be fair to get full refund for all the days since TOA release (people have got some ML's and artifacts afterall) it would be nice with some, 7 days or so and I'd be happy. How many raids or hunts have failed because of the horrible lag, how many people have often just given up doing anything in toa, and more importantly how many people have logged off, throuroughly PISSED because of the lag. Dying to a yellow con you're sprinting away from, but it keeps attacking at 20meters range is sure to do that to you (yes that happened alot)

Mids on prydwen being way behind hib and alb ML and artifact wise is a whole other story
 

SkarIronfist

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Ok let me explain, snce I don't see a difference between item A and item B below.

A. If receive a Paid for Service from a large bank, say for instance Citigroup, that service allows me to to trade 100s of millions of euros in various currencies every day. As you can imagine time delays are quite important. What do you think the service manager would be saying to his team, if he had a client out there and he was experiencing delays of 5 - 30 seconds. Now since it is proven that lag is at happening on the server side. What would happen is that the Bank, would have to cover the spread between the time period from 2 - 30 seconds, so any changes in the currency fluctaution, its not alot of a change, but when its 100's of millions, small differences do add up.

B. I receive a paid for service from a large Telecommuncations Company - say for instance Wanadoo (French), I pay quite alot (well if you don't have alot, then the monthly subscription is quite abit). I purchase 1+ copies of TOA. Remember this is a add on which it was stated in the initial design spec. would have no impact on RVR (mmmm we all know how honest that was). To me my characters as just as important as that currency transfer.


I would like to point out to you all, you pay for a service. That service depends on a company providing equipment that can handle the load. So saying that you do not think its fair or some saying its to hard to work out, allows companies such as Wanadoo off the hook, since they will always treat you as "Gamers".

You can imagine them sitting in their offices (senior management), maybe not the guys at the sharp end, who have asked for new equipment. Saying to them selve, gamers will but up with any rubbish.

I personally have all my chars on Midgard (Pyrdwen), why should I have to go to another server and create new characters so I can play DAOC. Or RVR in the frontiers (Like there has been anyone around since TOA). I shouldn't have to and neither should anyone else.
 

Bleam

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Rofl to ppl canceling account over silly things

You guys should play the game, and accept some things as they are at some occasions... Canceling account over a matter of 20 days is just so silly :/
I got loads of faith in the futur of GOA/Camelot... Ppl may thing otherwise but I don't ;P
 

Kraben

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Bleam said:
Rofl to ppl canceling account over silly things

You guys should play the game, and accept some things as they are at some occasions... Canceling account over a matter of 20 days is just so silly :/
I got loads of faith in the futur of GOA/Camelot... Ppl may thing otherwise but I don't ;P

I dont see any mid chars in your sig. If you had experienced the lag spikes of 5-30 sec constantly when in ToA zones and have just about every thing you do ruined cause of these, you would maybe have understood WHY pryd/mid people have these feelings. :mad:
 

Ssera

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chretien said:
From the Ts & Cs on the Camelot-Europe site:

Neither GOA nor any person or entity involved in creating, producing, editing or distributing all contents or services related to DAOC, nor any of their respective directors, managers, employees or agents, can make any guarantees whatsoever, in particular regarding the results that may be obtained by using your Player Account or the ability of your Player Account to work without interruption or error.

It seems to me that a lot of people have a funny way of not seeing when someone posts an answer to your question.

The above paragraph basically tells us that a server can go down, goa can let it stay down for weeks and weeks and weeks, and the ONLY thing that you can do as a player is to quit. It sucks but it's the same with every mmorpg out there as it basically covers their ass. Each time you play this game you agree to those terms.

You think the terms are unfair or wrong? Quit.

edit: ok, rereading I do seem a bit harsh. Just be thankful that GOA did fix the problem (or at least made playing possible) 'cos they could just as well have left it as it was. Sure they would have lost a lot of customers but nothing compared to the numbers of french and german players...
 

SkarIronfist

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The funny thing is, once WOW arrives that may well be an option some of us take. Well it will be for those who like PvE. I personally like the cut and thrust of PvP.

The attitude that you allocate to Goa, hardly endears them to the customers. How many of us actually play the game because of the people in our guilds.
 

Rookiescot

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May have been mentioned already..... sorry its late and I dont have time to read whole thread but someone on another thread suggested that if you are using windows XP try running DAoC ToA in windows ME compatability mode. (right click on start icon in menu and follow prompts).
I was having awful lag till I tried this. Things seem a LOT better now.
Hope this helps.
 

Glyph

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Skar, remember the BBQ in Aarhus where I was very sceptic with GOA back then already and you kept defending them, because you never really encountered any problems with them :)

See where you are today :)
 

Cyfr

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Should get refunded 0 days, tis your own fault for staying with goa if you get lag or anything else :p
 

Stinko

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Rookiescot said:
May have been mentioned already..... sorry its late and I dont have time to read whole thread but someone on another thread suggested that if you are using windows XP try running DAoC ToA in windows ME compatability mode. (right click on start icon in menu and follow prompts).
I was having awful lag till I tried this. Things seem a LOT better now.
Hope this helps.

Nope, read the whole thread before next time. This lag had nothing to do with client-side problems. It's all server-side!
Getting tired of wanna-be-techies having no clue what so ever what the problem was
 

old.Whoodoo

Can't get enough of FH
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Messages
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SkarIronfist said:
Ok let me explain, snce I don't see a difference between item A and item B below.

A. If receive a Paid for Service from a large bank, say for instance Citigroup, that service allows me to to trade 100s of millions of euros in various currencies every day. As you can imagine time delays are quite important. What do you think the service manager would be saying to his team, if he had a client out there and he was experiencing delays of 5 - 30 seconds. Now since it is proven that lag is at happening on the server side. What would happen is that the Bank, would have to cover the spread between the time period from 2 - 30 seconds, so any changes in the currency fluctaution, its not alot of a change, but when its 100's of millions, small differences do add up.

B. I receive a paid for service from a large Telecommuncations Company - say for instance Wanadoo (French), I pay quite alot (well if you don't have alot, then the monthly subscription is quite abit). I purchase 1+ copies of TOA. Remember this is a add on which it was stated in the initial design spec. would have no impact on RVR (mmmm we all know how honest that was). To me my characters as just as important as that currency transfer.


I would like to point out to you all, you pay for a service. That service depends on a company providing equipment that can handle the load. So saying that you do not think its fair or some saying its to hard to work out, allows companies such as Wanadoo off the hook, since they will always treat you as "Gamers".

You can imagine them sitting in their offices (senior management), maybe not the guys at the sharp end, who have asked for new equipment. Saying to them selve, gamers will but up with any rubbish.

I personally have all my chars on Midgard (Pyrdwen), why should I have to go to another server and create new characters so I can play DAOC. Or RVR in the frontiers (Like there has been anyone around since TOA). I shouldn't have to and neither should anyone else.
OK, heres the logic for A:

Banks charge you for being overdrawn and you get interest for them using your cash. However, with the exception of internet banking (which is only a recent thing, and does itself fall over like DAoC does!), you cannot access any bank on a Sunday, or any bank holiday, yet they still somehow manage to play with your cash on those days. DAoC does not take holidays. Internet banking only works as long as the ISPs and pipelines stay in tact, and the servers can handle the load, the same as DAoC. Case Dismissed.

Oh, and only recently have those kind of changes you mentioned taken 5 seconds, once upon a time it was done by post, sorry but we are in too much of a hurry these days.

And for B:

There has been little or no downtime for the game as a whole, if your telephone line goes gown for 24 hours, does your provider send you a nice letter saying "have a free day"? No. Had you ever thought to ask....no, instead you find an alternative form of communication and dont go to the nearest forum to have a good ol whine about it ;)

There are arguements both ways for this, lawyers will tear you all apart for trying to claim free days etc. Lets face it half of the people here said they would quit when RAs came out, they didnt, then when SCing came about, they didnt, then when SI, then housing then........ and here they are still whinging about the same old crap.
 

Rookiescot

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Stinko said:
Nope, read the whole thread before next time. This lag had nothing to do with client-side problems. It's all server-side!
Getting tired of wanna-be-techies having no clue what so ever what the problem was

Sorry was only trying to help.
Next time I'll just give you a big QQ :kissit:
 

Fafnir

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old.Whoodoo said:
There has been little or no downtime for the game as a whole, if your telephone line goes gown for 24 hours, does your provider send you a nice letter saying "have a free day"? No. Had you ever thought to ask....no, instead you find an alternative form of communication and dont go to the nearest forum to have a good ol whine about it

Well, my phone was out of order for 6 days, i got 20% off on that month bill, including calls i've already made. My broadband went down i called and bitched about it didnt have to pay that month, When my electricity goes out, i will get a refund of some sort depending on how long it goes out. Why do theese companies give me this. Cause they want to keep me happy, a happy customer is a good customer.
 

SkarIronfist

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When I lost my broadband for month I got my next 3 months for free. So your point is what exactly ?

Yes I would agree the scale of the industry is different, but we still pay for a service. I am well aware that when we sign on each time, we agree to them taking the house, your money and your 1st born child. So there is no come back - agreed. But here i ask, what would the decent thing to do.

PS - Glyph/Frey, yes you were correct (I am eating humble pie), its the last time I will defend GOA and there lame ass hardware. To be honest, I didn't think they could drop the ball so much.

Though it would be nice if they had a backup server rack for problems like this, so they could have transferred our chars to another server. Did they actually mention what the problem was, in the end ?
 

Kherny

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SkarIronfist said:
The funny thing is, once WOW arrives that may well be an option some of us take.QUOTE]

Agreed. will be big, the same hype prior to daoc surrounds wow but on a bigger scale.

My 2 accounts and me brothers 2 are now gone :) Had to delete the games from the hd to be sure im not tempted.... reading the beta boards on wow will keep me going for now.

The disgusting SERVER side problems since toa came out just got on my nerves too much. just unplayable.
 

Corran

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Stinko said:
Nope, read the whole thread before next time. This lag had nothing to do with client-side problems. It's all server-side!
Getting tired of wanna-be-techies having no clue what so ever what the problem was

wasnt hardware issue's thou.. so it wasnt goa that caused the problem but those that supply it to them. so bug mythic.
Goa have covered their backs with that which you always agree to so cant blame them if they dont give away thousands of pounds worth of refunds when they dont have too. Maybe when they lose more then that via people quitting they would think about it but that not gonna happen
 

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