Hib RvR suffers from a communication problem

[Ensceptifica]

I keep coming to RvR hoping to protect our realm, and after running for 15 minutes I often last 5 minutes before getting killed by a force a good group could easily overcome.

Here's what's wrong:

* People don't communicate
* People don't say where they are
* People don't say what they want
* People don't speak up when out of speed
* People say when they see invaders, but often not where or how many
* People run off to places without notifying others
* People don't listen to plans or tactics.
* People do not acknowledge nor stick to plans.
* People don't listen period.
* People don't respond to questions
* People don't speak up when they disagree
* People stop thinking when they are in big groups, and follow others without sticking to plans.

A simple 'yes' or 'no' or 'full, sorry' or 'albs NW, 4' or 'oos' or 'need yellows' or 'ooc' or "ok I won't get my group and yours killed by heading off to the apk", or "ok you're right let's not stay between 2 onrushing armies of mids and albs" would be enough.

I know it's just a game and I enjoy playing it, but it disturbs me to see how many people just don't think, speak, nor listen. I hope people can acknowledge and keep it in mind when playing... I like to play with people, but it's ever so much more fun when they show some interaction in return.

 

[old.Elrohir_CBH]

I wonder if its only hib that has this problem.

Maybe its just ppl in general that cant listen , follow order , speak up ect.(in game then , hope most of you dont have this probb in RL too ;q )

 

[old.Zanaa]

I agree fully. Gave up even trying with some people. Is totally impossible to get any human reactions from many players, especially many of the newer ones. When you speak your opinion too many can't take a discussion but just leaves or starts sulking quietly. Sometimes I wonder what types of people in society are attracted to Daoc. I think I met less than 20ppl who talk about things not Daoc. When u try talk answers u get are :O lol and thats it.

Furthermore most people don't want to try or figure out something new, something wierd, something smart, just endless rushes to emain and follow the zerg against another zerg often without saying a word, to get rps so they can get +skills and RAs so they...uh....can get more rps...so........hmmmmm.....

It's still a fun ame but it could be so much more.

 

[censi]

-------------------------------------------------------quote
* People don't communicate
* People don't say where they are
* People don't say what they want
* People don't speak up when out of speed
* People say when they see invaders, but often not where or how many
* People run off to places without notifying others
* People don't listen to plans or tactics.
* People do not acknowledge nor stick to plans.
* People don't listen period.
* People don't respond to questions
* People don't speak up when they disagree
* People stop thinking when they are in big groups, and follow others without sticking to plans
--------------------------------------------------------------

You should really have said "bad players dont" instead of "people"

Worst problem Hib face in Emain RVR is this. Other realms come in one big zerg after protal. Hib come disjointed and broken up from DL. Its not untill after countless drubbings that someone gets on alliance and annouces a rally point.

Another bad thing.... we get drawn to deep into Emain....
Hib should always aim to make the battle occur about half way down the valley. (unless retaking or defending crauch) do this and a res is always possible and highly likely.

Another thing, people rush to much.... after defeating and enemy zerg you always see peeps burn off to find more enemies only to get zergged....

Another thing peeps rush TK to much.

Doesnt matter how much you point this out things wont really change much...

Yes there is a lack of communication but overal Hib are more organised in RVR than the other 2 realms, and faced with an equal sized army hib will generally win.

So all in all things arnt to bad.

 

[old.Asmodan]

Another thing, people rush to much....

after defeating and enemy zerg you always see peeps burn off to find more enemies only to get zergged....

This couldnt be more true, ive spent ages in emain, and still the sight of RP horny ppl rushing after one little invader amaze me.

Take for instance 50hibs at the wall, some dude sees a invader, and of course he runs after him, then another 40 follow, they catch him up and see another, and rush after him too, then they see one more, and before they know it theyre at the PK, and when they are at the pk they see ppl standing at the hill down from the pk, and think damn we must get theese too, so they stay there and camp, hoping to get 1rp every 15 mins for the poor guy that lags a little too far out of the guard range.

Or if by any chance ppl should be lucky enough to live and stay there, someone will eventually get desperate to get his one rp and take one step too close killing all the hibs cos he pulled the guards. Or the enemy forces has buildt up a big enough force to wipe all the hibs, cos we dont have a defensive struckture like the wall to hide behind and fight them off from.

There shouldnt be any bigger reasons for charging past the first hill or so after the wall. Look at what you gain compared to what you usually loose, some ppl get 50 more rps, while half of our force dies to guards or cos they kept running into a zerg when everyone else stopped. Wich again triggers a diabolic circle, when a groupmember dies, and you have to ress him up there, and you go to ress, and you die, then someone comes to ress you and they die, and then someone comes to ress that person again and they die, and voila soon we have half the force we had. Id rather leave the bloke up there and tell him to stay closer to the wall next time.

There is a reason why we have the wall there, its a defensive structure, use it to its max, no way any invaders will get through that gate, when we have a bunch of bards ready to mezz them, let them stay infront of it, let or mages and rangers work on em til theyve lost enough ppl, then charge em and run after a little bit, then go back to the wall, the ones we kill close to the wall wont be ressed anyway when theres plenty of our mages on our walls picking off the ressers.

On a daily basis i hear ppl complaining bout us hibs having no tacticts, but i would rather call it no patience. By wich i mean instead of having the patience to wait til theres 20 invaders by our wall before they charge they enter RP horny mode and rush as soon as they see one. Theres a old saying that goes something like this "why run down a hill and catch a few, when you can walk down and catch em all", and that applies to emain, why rush after one guy and get killed far from our wall when you can wait til they are at the wall and kill them all? There wont be any chance of tactics before ppl learn the patience part.

If i could choose i would keep ppl at the end of the valleys, but after many tries ive given up that and settled with the wall, but if were gonna camp the wall we have to do it right, theres no room for mistakes before youre caught in the sandwich between mids and albs, while half our force is halfway to the PK and the other half is getting slain by invaders from the other realm at the wall, while we could have avoided that if everyone were staying at or close to the wall.

ppl also has to be more concerned about having their guildmembers do the right thing, if you see a guildm8 run off somewhere he shouldnt, msg him and tell him to get back or use guildchat and tell it to him, theres too little rvr talk on our guildchannels imo, wich again leaves the newcommers totally fresh when they enter emain for the first time, instead of that they might have heard some discussions on the guildchat about rvr and whats right and wrong, if theyve heard one or two thing on the guildchannel that might be enough, or get a PM from a higher lvl guildm8 telling him what to do.

Beeing highlvl comes with some responsibility, if a lowlvl guy sees a purplecon charge against the invaders of pure stupidity you can bet that that lowlvl guy would follow him, cos he thinks that hes purple he prolly knows what to do, then there will be more ppl running after and soon youll have the entire force running out in a bloodfrenzy with no tought and getting themselves killed. Putting things a bit on the edge yes, but its halfway true.

"Why run down a hill and catch a few, when you can walk down and catch them all"

thats my 2c peeps, feel free to dissagre, but that wont change my opinion

 

[Ebonn]

 

[old.Crey]

'albs NW, 4'

its quite hard to tell where the invaders r coming from cose the camviewe (Spell?) doesnt show what direction your looking at, + when you run at speed 5 and u have typ the long sentence albs (think) NW , 4 .. then your too far away to see em. + ppl dont listen so it doesnt do much anyways..


nice post anways =)

 

[Cloak_]

I could say so much but i darn't lol

Yes i know some ppl can be very stupid,, but hey if thats how they wanna play the game then let em,,

Make proper organized grps (just like albs have been doing atm with Mad & co) and dont worry so much about other ppl,, go hunt in thier realms (cept always bleeding empty bah)

With that much to write Asmo,, seems your letting other ppl piss you off too much (i know thier *stupidness* gets u killed )

Myself I have made a couple of hit and run squads, kept away from AMG and any hib zergs and had great fun

 

[Novamir]

It's all CREY'S fault

 

[old.Crey]

caps.....

 

[spankya]

Its pretty simple...

make chat groups and get atleast a few peeps from each group in it especially the group leaders. Then someone has to take charge to whom people will listen anddo what they say. Also... dont listen to some random person yelling things out.. I have seen so many people yell "FOLLOW ME!!" and suddenly 10 or so people are following some inexperienced lowbie twat who stopped an alb and wants to kill him. And as Aragone said... stop chasing after some single enemy and leave the main force behind.

 

[Ensceptifica]

Thnx Asmo, forgot that one:

* People have no patience.

You can make plans all you like, but if it takes more than 10 minutes, people are gonna run off like headless chickens and get killed (not taking into account that a headless chicken is usually pretty much dead already )

 

[old.Takahome]

Couldn´t be more agree... though in a bloodlust I´ve gone after single invaders some times

But I really hate tk camping uke: Stop rezzing ppl past half way to apk unless it was an alb zerg and not nonebrain running.

All follow their group leader and make group leader follow main leader will be much easier 4 all, though albs got easier way since they all gather 4-5 fgs and inc...

 

[Elric IA]

its quite hard to tell where the invaders r coming from cose the camviewe (Spell?) doesnt show what direction your looking at, + when you run at speed 5 and u have typ the long sentence albs (think) NW , 4 .. then your too far away to see em. + ppl dont listen so it doesnt do much anyways..

Use Shift+C and it puts a compass back on your screen makes it a lot easier

 

[sorusi]

Summs it up...

Same problems in albion.. you are in mix group and some tanks run off then you see his hp drop constanly for 1min and hes not makeing a sound were he is ... cant ppl report before they do anything? (if they get owned, tanks usually get this)

sometimes i think if albion is full of bad bots... i mean you ask tex: "whos up for that?" or "blalblala" and no response.... find this very odd and annoying......

oh well maybe most ppl daydream when they play daoc, i donno


nice to see hibbs being same crap atleast lol

 

[Ziva]

Well i agree with the topicstarter but i'm not blaming all people.

I'm still a noob also and RvR isn't exactly the place for nice chats cause u gotta pay attention. Especially when u start with going RvR it's very difficult to keep up with the events and talking at the same time.

I do have to say, not responding at questions is not polite but not only in DaoC, i think IRL too.

I think the main problem starts at the top. In DaoC this means the alliances. I recently got AS-read and i'm amazed by the chaotic way info is been given. I know even little things like "20 albs inc" and "group spotted" seem to be important but especially like yesterday when Hibernia really needed some good organization these events are not the things ppl wanna hear.

My group waited like 4ever (seemed like it) at dagda to provide defense in case of Alb attack. And yeah i moaned a lot about the fact standing still is boring but it would have been so much easier if we knew what was going on at other places and we didn't. So we were in constant doubt about staying... leaving... trying to retake a keep etc.

I really wish there was a way every guild could provide some leaders in AS that are in lead of bigger (guild) groups. In cases like yesterday i kinda expected messages like "we need 50 ppl at crau, defend alb zerg", "50 ppl defend at dagda and stay till further notice". Stuff like that...

It would even be better if every alliance/guild or guild-groups could get some commands/tasks to get some organisation in RvR. Maybe it's time to choose some Hibbie-leaders/presidents so we can work togheter instead of running around not knowing what to do and where to go.

 

[Juanita]

Basically what we need are some "generals" that do not participate in the actual fighting, but coordinate where everyone is, where everyone has to go and what everyone has to do.
Trouble might be that the position might not be favoured by everyone, because you just stand around and try to fix things.
Still, its how it works IRL, so why not adopt the idea?

 

[Kobold]

Was nice in emain yesterday, about 4+ FG hibs...most in cg i think, and we zerged well, without to many mistakes.

About that general thingy....imagine who would do that work...sounds boooring /em neeeed...to....hit...the....tin...cans!

 

[Ensceptifica]

Originally posted by Juanita
Basically what we need are some "generals" that do not participate in the actual fighting, but coordinate where everyone is, where everyone has to go and what everyone has to do.
Trouble might be that the position might not be favoured by everyone, because you just stand around and try to fix things.
Still, its how it works IRL, so why not adopt the idea?

Because it's a lot of work and stress, and those are basically things people play this game to avoid. There are some people who know how to take charge and usually do, but without people following them and helping them, the job gets annoying pretty quickly.

 

[Marwolaeth]

ok I understand it's abit of a different kettle of fish, but one thing you did say Enscep did remind me of this.....

In battle gorunds we had just taken the bridge and forced the middies back to regroup on the otherside. I'm standing there with my bow drawn ready for when they tried to attack again, secure in the knowledge that when they do myself, afew tanks, a couple of healers and some mages would be more than a match to repel the attack.....the midds came, I got slaughtered...the so called group I thought were standing behind me as backup had buggered off back to the TK without announcing anything.

LACK OF COMMUNICATION IS A BAD THING!

I can only imagine how much worse the above situation must be if scaled upto a real RvR battle.....

 

[Kobold]

One important thing that many often don't do:
Eatch group should have ONE leader/driver/captain call it whatever you want. It's the same who this person are as long as he have some rvr experience and know the area pretty well. All group should be sticked to that person all the time! If some alb/mids are spotted, split up a little bit right before hitting them. And ASAP after they dead stick to the leader again (after rez up dead if it is) and he can lead to move out fast to a secure rest place. If no leader at this point some will prolly loose group...and rest sit there resting wonder what to do and where the missing peeps are, and then get slaughtered by some invaders runing passt.

Just a little note that i think is rather important to a good RvR team.

 

[Highlight]

My 2 cents:

Strong leadership provides strong armys !

Communication and disciplin wins battles !

I think that is also what is mostly stated above. But how to do this?

Start from scratch, but start from the top. Start with the leadership and get that to work. Find people who have shown themselves already as good leaders and evt. add some natural leaders.

Then make up what kind of people you want in and wich rules they have to follow. Start recruiting one at a time. If a new recrut doesn't follow the rules, KICK HIM !

You have to control ALL players and their behaviours. You can't expect to control people not inside the army, but the ones inside you should. Furthermore, make it interesting (honorable, whatever) to be a member of the army. This way people in Daoc have the option to be inside the army, or the more free spirit on their own.

 

[Dilandau_]

I can't say i have any experiance in RvR battles, but based upon the behaviour of people in the lower levels <20, i can imagine how it looks like in RvR, more than once, quite often actually when in muire and the group is in need of rest, instead of sitting in a safezone people actually sit down and rest in the middle of the spawnareas. no matter if I scream, wave my arms etc do they move, just sit there like dumb sheep.

It's quite sad =/

I bought this game because of the RvR capabilities (i'm sure i'll get there someday^-^), i would like to participate in large scale battles, with leaders that command their groups etc. and stuff like that. people that can't cooperate with the rest of the group is just ruining the fun for others imo.

 

[old.Nol]

...

Only one complaint, don't leave dead, rez everyone and move on. I may not be uber, I may not have the greatest speed or the best mezz, but I never leave anyone behind if I can help it, regardless of whether they're in my group or not.

 

[Ensceptifica]

Re: ...

Originally posted by old.Nol
Only one complaint, don't leave dead, rez everyone and move on. I may not be uber, I may not have the greatest speed or the best mezz, but I never leave anyone behind if I can help it, regardless of whether they're in my group or not.

I think there's not a lot of people who rez as much as I do (; I'm speccing serenity as RA just for that purpose, coz wardens have a bubble to maintain too and I like to heal a bit too without yelling for mentalists or bards

I hate having to res people who run off coz they don't have the patience to stick to a plan that involves waiting/grouping/talking for 10 minutes though, and usually res them last.

 

[old.Nol]

I know you rez Enscepti you certainly have rezzed me enough only reason I have only one comlaint is you covered all of them in your topic starter