Hey, I don't like 'em, but...

Scouse

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Scouse you do talk a lot of utter fucking bollocks sometimes.

Do you think if there was no such concept as religion then there would be no problems in the world? There would be no such thing as murder? Disagreement over ownership and resources? That people wouldn't have conflicting ideologies?

Eh up, I've had a few now so bear with... :)

I suppose I'd better point out that the previous posts weren't a personal attack. I do think that religious people tend to be "nicer" than those who aren't, when you actually meet them. However, I don't think my points above are bollocks, not even for a second.

It's this I'd like you to address: Go through my points about the repression of art and literature, sexual repression and the likes - and rebuff them with evidence. I tried (reasonably hard) to provide examples of censorship etc, and gave a reason why a seemingly benign "belief system" would give rise to such things.

I'm not saying that if there was no such thing as organised religion then all the worlds ills would be cured. I'm saying that organised religion hinders, not helps...

Anyway, I'm back to Warcraft and wine with the missus :D
 

Scouse

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Is that really the only 'correct' way to react in your opinion?

How should I have reacted to this group of lads?

Should I have

A) Started a fight, and subsequently be beaten up.
B) Cried like a big girl.
C) Leave it, realise that they're cocks with a mob mentality.

Come on. Which one should I have done? Or have you a better way which doesn't involve me getting my face smashed in?
 

nath

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Personally I think you should have hunted them down when they were alone and one by one taken a baseball bat to their face. If you've seen irreversible - you'll know the desired effect :).

But I don't think what they said to you should be illegal.

</brokenrecord>
 

Scouse

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But there is no proof that we evolved.

Man, I should be warcrafting (and the bird is looking less and less impressed) but - this is the opinion of the ignorant.

If you want to understand what "scientific proof" is then go and learn it. "Proof" in science is different to "proof" in a law court.

Personally I think you should have hunted them down when they were alone and one by one taken a baseball bat to their face.

Well, I like it. But it kind of goes against the whole "do no harm" thing that I've got going on. I'm strong enough (now) to laugh at that shit....
 

chipper

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i think when you start creating laws involving speech your taking a dangerous path which i personally think theres no comin back from.

im going to ignore the whole god issue scouse and turumbar got goin on here cos i get into it far too much and am prone to a bit of god bashin.

once you start censoring speech where does it end?? maybe public gatherings of a controversial nature should be banned, if you wanna whine book a conference center can still say what ya wanna say but without offending those who dont give a shit, bit like the christian church :D
 

Raven

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"I disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it"?

Yes he should be let in and he should be allowed to air his opinion, the same way and other extremist should. On the same note, we should be able to do the same.

The church isn't so bad, they are pretty much ignored on the whole, their opinion doesn't really count for much these days, which is a good thing, throughout history the function of religion has been to force opinions onto others no matter how morally wrong or socially unacceptable (much like a sony fanboy actually :p) They no longer have the tools to manipulate the ignorant. Naturally that is in the west. The east are still stuck in the dark ages and need to be taught that there is freedom away from religion and in this case freedom from the nutjob with a sign
 

Ctuchik

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But there is no proof that we evolved.

but theres one hell of alot more evidence that we did evolve then there are about some "god" magically making earth apear over 7 days.

all the "evidence" about that lies within some insane cavemans self biography going horribly fucking wrong.
 

Dukat

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But I don't think what they said to you should be illegal.

</brokenrecord>

Neither do I, not for playground stuff - I just think when you scale it up and start demonstrating infront of mourners with signs like the ones those people have you cross the line seperates "expressing your views" and "going out of your way to hurt others just to get publicity for your views". I'm not saying funerals should be immune from being protested as such, I'm saying that these people are going beyond that.

"Freedom of speech" doesn't mean "Freedom from responsibility" and what these people are doing is wrong. Let them take thier petty little demonstrations to government institutions and leaders, at embassies or military installations, whatever, just not funerals.

The thing is they're purposefully going for what they see as a weak spot in the system to hurt people in a place they're not protected.

And Scouse, I'm not saying what you did was wrong - it was obviously a mature response, I'm just saying that I disagree with the "Any other reaction would have been the incorrect one." part. Ignoring schoolyard "bullies" (not the correct term but w/e) is not the only response and sometimes, in some cases, I think it can be an incorrect one... but thats another story.

You said you were gutted to have it happen, well imagine if those kids showed up with plaquards and banners at the funeral saying they're glad about what happened? The sort of pain that creates goes against everything that's good and right, and it just stirs up bad feeling and anger for no good cause what so ever.

I understand the point about ignoring them rather than recognising thier ideas exist by reacting to them, I just think that stopping them from getting into the country isn't a bad idea at all - its a fairly low intensity response that will deny them a chance do to what they've done in the US over here.
 

Sar

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If religion didn't exist, then bigots and zealots would have to invent it in order to have something to hide behind.

The fact that they have masses of non-bigots and ordinary, but weak/fearful individuals to swell their ranks is unfortunate but probably what was intended.

Aforementioned hate-mongers have used religion throughout history as a basis for killing and murdering billions of people throughout the centuries. Religion is mankind's greatest failing.

Even today it continues, with so called fundamentalist christians and muslims etc prepared to use their religion as justification for hating and trying to oppress gay people, black people, women, adulterers, children - the list goes on and on.

And as for proof of evolution? There is literally tons of it all around you everywhere you go.

It's called life - animal, plant and human.

Plants evolve rather rapidly to cope with adverse conditions. So do fruit flies, hell even the human genome itself shows signs and proof of evolving.

Creationists would like everyone to believe that the earth and everything on it is less than 6,000 years old. Puh-lease. Pick up the average rock and you're more than likely holding something far older than that. Also something that has far more intelligence than your average Creationist.
 

Turamber

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Plants evolve rather rapidly to cope with adverse conditions. So do fruit flies

A plant remains a plant, a fly remains a fly. Adaptation is not the same as evolution

Anyway done with this thread now, you people and your view of religion is so warped it is untrue. You are the Daily Mail readers of the creation/evolution argument.
 

nath

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Neither do I, not for playground stuff - I just think when you scale it up and start demonstrating infront of mourners with signs like the ones those people have you cross the line seperates "expressing your views" and "going out of your way to hurt others just to get publicity for your views". I'm not saying funerals should be immune from being protested as such, I'm saying that these people are going beyond that.

The issue is, I don't trust those in authority to decide responsibly where to draw the line.

A plant remains a plant, a fly remains a fly. Adaptation is not the same as evolution

Anyway done with this thread now, you people and your view of religion is so warped it is untrue. You are the Daily Mail readers of the creation/evolution argument.

So hold on, being religious is one thing but are you actually a creationist Turamber? Seriously?
 

Sar

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A plant remains a plant, a fly remains a fly. Adaptation is not the same as evolution

And a primate remains a primate.

Humans ARE primates btw, so what's your point exactly?
 

Sar

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creationism-1sml.jpg
 

chipper

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lets not even get started on creationalism its so fuckin stupid i refuse to even debate it. mindless twaddle not ONE! argument from creationalism stands up to scientific scrutiny
 

Scouse

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A plant remains a plant, a fly remains a fly. Adaptation is not the same as evolution

Anyway done with this thread now, you people and your view of religion is so warped it is untrue. You are the Daily Mail readers of the creation/evolution argument.

Sorry you feel that way m8. I did too, once...
 

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