Heros - Why bother?

[old.cerebus]

Hi guys

Okay, can anyone please tell me the good things about Shield Heros in RvR?

I have a level 40 Shield/Blade Hero now and I'm just gonna give up on him. I'm finding him pretty useless in PvP with nothing really to make me look forward to taking him into the frontier zones.

I decided to have blades as my main weapon, which I am now finding out is a huge mistake as it has the lowest damage output against the different types of armour out there. I love the taunt ability but I can only stand fighting a certain amount of mobs before wanting to kill myself.

I can't block styles and as we all know, everybody uses styles in RvR to get a quicker kill. This means all the points I put in Shield are rendered useless.

I get mezzed far too easy, just like everybody else I suppose, but as a big strong hero I'd have thought I could withstand such spells better than most characters.

In a battle I am expected to be the first line of defence. This means I get killed first and get to watch the rest of the exciting battle while enjoying a nice dirt cake

Mythic made Hibernian chain the weakest of all the realms high level armour. The bard end regen was supposed to compensate (Yeah, like healers are in abundance these days). This means I am at a disadvantage from the start of any fight.

In a raid the most useful thing I can do is hit the door, once in the fort I run around like a headless chicken clearing guards with the rest of my realm mates. Then I stand in the yard until the defenders show up.

Then what?

My bow is pathetic (How come Armsmen can train in cross bow and not me?), I can't do anything useful to help in the defence.

I imagine some of you love your characters, some may hate them but can anyone please give me a reason to level this guy to 50?

With the realm abilities looming (lol) I can even see my 20 second stun becoming useless.........just a little dissapointing having invested a lot of time in the guy.

 

[old.Cadwyr]

Ah the live of a tank, first into battle frist to die Tbh going to emain as a tank below level 45 means u get to die a heluva lot. Can't say I really started to enjoy it there till I got to level 45 and was actually able to kill the odd yellow con.

You should find the slam styles pretty useful to u later, and shields can block styles, cos its happened to me more than a few times. Blades isnt a great choice imo but u will get a chance to respec later if u wish.

Take up LW or CS as a back up skill with ur extra spec points and u will find either alot more effective in rvr.

Tanks no mater what level get to die alot mate, it happens. But it's a fun class to play so stick with it.

 

[svar]

Wait till 42 to get slam, it gets fun after that. After we get respec, respec to CS/LW.

 

[old.EoO_Raphael]

Aye sword users are a bit screwed :/ Makes me cringe everytime I see a 30+ blademaster atm. Very easy to see your point having played a thane to 40.

Personaly I think you need to think ahead to Darkness Falls were tanks will be much stronger and be in great need. Your rvr capability will also be greatly increased. It might be worth starting another char using the money from your hero but keep leveling the hero also. Tanks are absoloutly essential in fort and relic raids. Once you have the cash to buy red con equipment all the time leveling gets a lot faster.

 

[old.Nedowiz]

Don't be like that Cer, I luuuurv having your fridge door blocking for my tiny celt body in all battles If you dont lvl moore I quit!

Nedowiz
Lvl 4x Champion
http://yoda.tjgroup.no/fopw

 

[cleeve]

Cer

U even need a druid for healing in RvR /send revor m8

I will come and keep u alive whilst u slap some middies around



Revor

 

[old.cerebus]

Thanks guys

Wouldn't you get a little disheartened though if your entire RvR experiences consisted of......

Cerebus and team see's a group of yellow cons. Cerebus protects healers and guards champion. Both groups charge each other. Cerebus gets mezzed. Enemy kills all healers and casters. Cerebus left twiddling thumbs. Yellow con enemy totally owns Cerebus because he uses styles (which I can't block), Cerebus left slashing away for crap amounts of damage.

I witnessed it last night when my Alt Nightshade wen't into Yggdra. Some Albs where camping the MG and Hib Tank there just got owned because all other players had mezzes and magic, all he had was a sword (useless) and a shield (useless).

Mythic say heros are balanced, maybe they are but I wish Mythic would actually look at Hibernian tanks rather than Albion tanks when they make such a decision.

.....and while I'm having a little rant, wtf is up with our helms? How come all other realms get face protection that makes them look all mean and we get a bowl on our head? I've started just giving away all my scale helms just so I can use re-enforced which at least has side protection (really it's because my ears look really stupid without something covering them up).

 

[cleeve]

Yeah -

My rvr experiences do largely consist of being mezzed and spanked...

I try and hide my class by not taking a pet and then hiding in trees and stealth healing ;o)

I suspect its tough atm anyway because its relatively difficult for Hibernia as a realm to put out well balanced RvR teams on a regular basis. When we do manage to get well balanced Squads out we tend to go down after cutting a bloody swathe through where-ever we have been. I have been in nigh on all druid and ranger groups for RvR in the past because there were simply no tanks around our level interested in some rvr. Once we have more ppl rvring on a regular basis at around level 40 - I suspect your fights will be a little longer - mainly cos there will be more targets and they wont be able to just mezz the only high level tank and deal with the support first

I have a low level hero atm (11) and tbh - I didnt even bother with sheild and blades - I went CS/LW straight from the off - mainly because all the purple middies that I had seen used 2 handed wpns and they did some insane amounts of damage to me =)

Revor

 

[old.m0lder]

hi..

Being a shield hero myself, I guess I can share some of your views in RvR combat. Shield Heros basically don't do enough damage to the other tanks out there, that's true, but we ARE the people in Hibernia that can take most beating from anyone. This is valued greatly in PvE groups, as probably Revor here can confirm =o)

But in RvR, I've not very experienced myself. I've been to a couple of keepraids, and been both on the attacking and defending side. Shield Heros are not meant to deal damage, they are there to protect.. by either drawing aggro/taunting the enemy to attack you, or using your block on a friend/damage dealing tank.. One time in a raid, all I did was using my protect on a healer, and I blocked quite a few attacks from guards/ranger guards toward him.

And also remember you have a ability called "engage" which is really underestimated. If you engage your enemy, either a ranger or melee, he will have a hard time hitting you, yet they can't ignore you, because when they switch target, you can land a nasty stun on him from behind, and use your styles on him.

I know shield heroes may look nerfed, but if you want to deal damage and get a lot of realmpoints, you've put those skillpoints wrong in the first place..

Well..this is my view anyway.. Shield heros are popular in PvE groups, you only need to play tactical with a group in RvR to be able to make a difference...

 

[old.cerebus]

Don't get me wrong, in PvE I rock, it's just that RvR is the main drawing point for me now.

In raids I can keep multiple archers busy using all my shield skills, it's just that when I come across anything that isn't governed by AI I get owned because my defence sucks against anything that can use a style.

In the later stages of the game, RvR is going to be the only thing that keeps my interest. PvE won't mean a thing which is a shame because it's the only thing Shield heros are any good at.

Are there any high level heros out there that can actually withstand dieing in the first 30 seconds of a battle? If so, any tips?

 

[Matinex]

Cerebus, i feel your pain. I play on excalibur/hibernia as a level 50 hybrid hero (imo the best hero type). Here is some info for you that might get you too cheer up.

ALL tanks classes suck in rvr, your job is to get in the battlefield and take dmg while the archers/nukers do their job.

Hero is the best tank class in all realms, polearmsmen specced in thrust hits hardest in the game, but heros get evade and insta heal.

Now if u want to deal as much dmg as possible, go CS to 39, Blunt 44, shield 42 and the rest in parry. I would take CS to 44 if u got loads of mids on your server, and if you got plenty of albs get 1h blunt to 44 instead. I done 1k dmg on mid users with only 43 in CS, blades is just crap, respec after patch if u can.

Dont say that heroes are not balanced, they are 1 of hibernias most balanced class, as mythic think. They are what they are intended to be and can win solo against any other tank class.

BUT IMO, ALL tank classes needs to get fixed in alot of ways, more hps, more resists to nuke spells. most important of all is to get more hps, casters nuke me for 500 dmg at 50. Here is how it looks like in a battle against a caster.

Caster nukes, 500 dmg,
caster nukes 500 dmg,
u get into range to hit the caster, hit 1 time, bubble takes your hit, no dmg done.
Caster mez/root/stun you and run back 50 meters.
Nuke for 500 dmg, you moose,
nuke for 500 dmg.

You lost, caster lost mana.

It is really depressing i am telling you, and it wont get any better, things you can do is to get loads of items that give + to mez resists, wich is actually working very good for me.

A realm dont need tanks, tanks are just there to get beat up, casters can do the same job, jsut that they have more nukiing power than most tanks hit for.

Trust me i know loads about tanks in this game, if u are bored now it wont get any better. The FUN in this game for me is NOT rvr, it is exploring new areas, getting new items, etc, and guess what, i got them most.

This game is all about range, range and range again, (and some stealth ). IMO you would have 10 times more fun playing a nuker, i tried playing a void specced eldritch, all he does is stand from far away and nuke ppl in battles, while (again) tanks go in and take beat up.

Sorry for the long post, but it is true, all tank classes suck. Stealthers, ranged classes have loads more fun.

Matinex - Hero

 

[Matinex]

Btw change the topic to "Tanks - Why bother?"

 

[old.cerebus]

Well that cheered me up

When do i get insta heal?

I only get 'evade 1' I think, which kinda sucks.

Hibernian Shield tanks can't win solo against any other tank because we aren't the strongest tank class in the game but Mythic tried to make us more equal by adding other stuff (Such as end regen from bards).

Plate armour anyone - How come Albion gets this AND chain?

The fun for most people in this game IS RvR and NOT going to places we've all been a thousand times. I want tips on RvR tactics.

Tanks include champs for Hibernia, they get Magic, that's fun, they can nuke from a distance. (Not for much but they can interupt casting etc..)

I stand by my comment saying tanks aren't balanced. We only have a small amount of HP more than Champs, we get the same amount of energy as a level 1 guardian and we die far too quickly in RvR. We can't block styles, we have nothing that stops enemies running straight through us (Literally) and attacking casters and healers. The only thing we can do is charge thier casters. As a Shield hero I don't kill fast enough to do any damage.

I'm going to respec to Celtic Spear as soon as possible but until then, I guess I'm stuck.

 

[Matinex]

When do i get insta heal?

Moose at level 45=50% more health.

I only get 'evade 1' I think, which kinda sucks.

So? you said armsmen are better tanks didnt u? they dont have evade, and evade works properly in rvr.

Hibernian Shield tanks can't win solo against any other tank because we aren't the strongest tank class in the game but Mythic tried to make us more equal by adding other stuff (Such as end regen from bards).

Have you ever duelled with any other tank 1 on 1? i have and have never lost to anyone while using the combination stun/cs. 90% of the times i use 1h/shield i won. And yes we are the strongest tank classes

Plate armour anyone - How come Albion gets this AND chain?

All mythic employees play in albion, so thats why they got the best items, mostly updated, most balanced classes, most "uber" classes, etc. But if u really want plate, why dont you move to albion then? i play hibernia because i like to be the underdog, i dont want to win all battles easily, i like to strike when they least expect it with tactics and hard work.

The fun for most people in this game IS RvR and NOT going to places we've all been a thousand times. I want tips on RvR tactics.

Tanks include champs for Hibernia, they get Magic, that's fun, they can nuke from a distance. (Not for much but they can interupt casting etc..)

I stand by my comment saying tanks aren't balanced. We only have a small amount of HP more than Champs, we get the same amount of energy as a level 1 guardian and we die far too quickly in RvR. We can't block styles, we have nothing that stops enemies running straight through us (Literally) and attacking casters and healers. The only thing we can do is charge thier casters. As a Shield hero I don't kill fast enough to do any damage.

Have you ever played the champ before patch 1.45 and then compared them to now? obviously not. IMO the best class before that patch 1 on 1 was the champion, they could take some classes to MINUS, yes MINUS in CON with their con/str debuffs, and then dd them to death, those classes could be orange con to the champ. However that has changed, their debuffs are CRAP now, they do less dmg than a Hero, becuase they are on a different dmg table. A hero got 50% more health than a champ.
Only good things for a champ atm in this patch is their snare and their "ok" DD. Taking valor above 40 is useless.

I'm going to respec to Celtic Spear as soon as possible but until then, I guess I'm stuck.

Let me know your stats and level, it might not be to late to spec CS yet, not sure what level you are. Btw dont be so sad, 1h/shield is 10 times better when fighting mages, try fighting a runemaster that got a 6 sec bub with a LW or CS, they will laugh at you before meleeing you to death.

You are the best tank mate, but seriously, you wont get any better than this.

 

[old.cerebus]

Oh no, not a quoting thread! arrgghhhh

Here we go, I get moose, it's cool and has saved me a lot.

Armsmen ARE better than heros. You said it yourself that Mythic make Alb characters uber.

I've fought many battles with all different types of enemy. Armsmen usually beat me handsdown and well, so do mids but I know why and that's because I use Slash. I find it pretty hard to believe you've never lost to anyone unless you are fighting green/blue cons though.

How are we the strongest Tank class? So far I've heard claims but no proof. This is why I started the thread.

I've played in hibernia all my DAoC life and I too like being the underdog. This isn't about being better than anybody else, It's about our role in RvR and getting a fair chance to play the game like someone else in a different realm.

I've put lots of hard work into my character, any of my guild mates can tell you this, being around at the start of the Server meant I had to do everything the Hard way. We use tactics, we strike out when nobody expects us to. We have to. We are the major underdog on this server.

Have you ever played the champ before patch 1.45 and then compared them to now? obviously not.

erm yeah I have. I also play along side two very good ones nearly every day and they are very good at tanking. They where not nerfed that bad I don't think in 1.45.

I'm level 40. I have level 40 in shield, level 35 in blades and all the rest in Parry. I wen't for the defensive route as you see.

I really do hope I get better than this, I'll be damned if I'm gonna spend the rest of my DAoC life eating dirt.

 

[old.Lianuchta]

Wow I get to try and advice Cere in public places as well now, not just /gu and guild forums

Anyway if that's your spec, you can take shield to 42 and Spec CS to 50 (!) with the points remaining between 40 and 50.

Then your finally build would look like this:

Shield 42
Blades 35
Parry 18 (I'm assuming you put all your remaining points in it)
Celtic Spear 50

I other words you would be an extremely good mob tank and have great spear skills to run thru those Middies. Admittedly you won't have blunt for plate wearers, but you can all always respec that if need be). Problem solved Now come and protect my scrawny arse again please

 

[old.cerebus]

ah screw you

 

[Matinex]

Sorry mate you dont have to believe me. I am a lvl 50 hero on excalibur and prolly clueless you might think.

Go cs 39 and shield 42, that is enough for you to be a good hero.

 

[old.cerebus]

No mate, I appriciate the advice, any level 50 help is always helpful.

You may see Heros out perform any other tank class in the game at level 50. At my level I'm just finding them a little crap. I love being proved wrong though.

 

[Matinex]

All these statements i done is from my own experience, why would i make it up? Heroes=best tank class in game.

 

[svar]

Blah after respec choose what you want to be. Hybrids are ok while respec was not an option because they allowed you to be mediocre-very good in both PvE and RvR, but now you can be excellent in both. Just keep your sword/board to 50, then respec to either 50 CS or LW, 42 shield for slam and 39 parry. At 50 you will NEVER have to use that puny sword anymore...

 

[old.cerebus]

Yeah baby!! No more swords!!

 

[old.Greggor]

Ok shield hero are notthe best in rvr but u can block and parry styles i nave had it done to me but i think the chance is greatly reduced

i do su jest that u go for LW than CS because CS drops are so rare and that will piss u off even more.

Yesterday fighting two middie bith yellow con to me so bith 45+ lvl
bothuse 2handed weapons. they where both hacking me i owned the first one and took the seconded down to 10% before i died .

Fully buffed i have 1900+ hp and that is 2755 with moose this is the max hp since i have capped on both str and con now

Also in later patches u can buy with ur BPs mez resistance

i Do believe that mez i far too powerful in rvr, and list needs to be changed because u can mez a player on half hp u cant do that to a mob?

Keep it up Cer u will have fun

 

[old.Greggor]

Btw there is no Fighter class in the game that i have not owned in the game

IMO Shadowblades are more powerful because their Evade works in rvr and pve so they evade 20% ish?

With is a pain in the ass when he evade 2 out of 5 hits?

Still got him thou

 

[old.Jude]

All classes are gimped regardless of realm, or at least this is how everyone playing there class seems to feel.

And Tanks, yeah sure we suck, and as for us blademasters (uber gimps) Yeah we suxors the most right?


hit x2, hit x2, hit x2, evade, hit,(enemies turn) parry, parry, hit, hit x2 hit x2. (enemies turn) ouchy! ( hit, hit x2...heh dead bad guy at my feet.

Bet the enemy dont think we suxorz so much )

 

[old.EoO_Raphael]

Bluntmasters would be good I dunno why people use slash over blunt when its better in rvr and good in pve.

 

[old.Mousah]

a hero shud be with a spear.....
a shield hero is like a shield armsman....that is GIMPET!

 

[old.Lianuchta]

Originally posted by EoO_Raphael
Bluntmasters would be good I dunno why people use slash over blunt when its better in rvr and good in pve.

Just made a little Bluntmaster alt I think most of the high lvl Blademasters looked at the name and thought...blades . I know now that slash is crap against chain, and the blunt gets no negs against any armor type. Only problem is that sometimes in pve you don't swing fast enough to keep agro off chainnukers (finally on the toher side of the fence ).

 

[old.cerebus]

That's where blade users come into the picture, we're great when it comes to PvE.

 

[old.willowywicca]

yep I gotta agree that for PvE blades tend to work better, you almost always see me with my lil toothpick jabbing at those big ol mobs. however blunts come into their own for RvR being a seemingly far better choice, however for heros seems that celtic spear is a far better option still.

Also on a side note, atm shadow blades not so tough since attack speed debuffs stops peeps from evading (why? god only knows) fixed in an up and coming patch tho OoO

also regarding spear drops there was some other post about where to get 2 different 16.2 dps ones, can't remember where exactly but I'm sure you can find it.. so really think CS is better than LW, I know I'd use em if I could

Malev