help needed with specs

tierk

Part of the furniture
Joined
Feb 16, 2004
Messages
2,884
Just started leveling a ns i wanna see what the other side is like after almost 4 years of playing a ranger. I aint got a clue about different specs and there different pro's and cons hoping for a bit of input from you peeps here. I wanna get a idea for what is best spec at low rr's and then maybe a idea of what i need to be aiming towards at higher rr.

Anyway help gratefully received :worthy:
 

Punishment

Resident Freddy
Joined
Jan 23, 2005
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8,604
tierk said:
Just started leveling a ns i wanna see what the other side is like after almost 4 years of playing a ranger. I aint got a clue about different specs and there different pro's and cons hoping for a bit of input from you peeps here. I wanna get a idea for what is best spec at low rr's and then maybe a idea of what i need to be aiming towards at higher rr.

Anyway help gratefully received :worthy:

From RR2-5 i went

39+12 Critical strike
38+12 Stealth
38+12 Blades
38+12 Envenom
2x+12 Celtic dual

Found that Ok :D

RR5-7 Im am running

44+15 Critical strike
35+15 Stealth
36+15 Blades
32+15 Envenom ... QQ no lifebane
31+15 Celtic dual

RR7-9 Starting @ rr7 with optimal Wyrd spec

44+17 Critical strike
33+17 Stealth
34+17 Blades
33+17 Envenom ... w00t lifebane is back <3
34+17 Celtic Dual

At RR9 u have the option of ...

50+19 Critical strike
31+19 Stealth
32+19 Blades
31+19 Envenom
32+19 Celtic Dual

Or u can stay 44cs spec and dump extra points into either Mainhand or Offhand damage or maybe even both ... but 50 Cs and 51 composite main/offhand imo is <3

Hope this helps Tierk meighty :D
 

tierk

Part of the furniture
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Feb 16, 2004
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Ok for the first spec u gave me just a quick question i assume that cs is better then then cd? Reason i ask is that i am sure i read somewhere that cd>cs, if my memory serves me right anyway but maybe that was for when i get higher RR maybe?
Sorry if it seems like a really dumb question but u know i am a newb when it comes to NS despite grping with so many good ones over the years.
 

Punishment

Resident Freddy
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Messages
8,604
tierk said:
Ok for the first spec u gave me just a quick question i assume that cs is better then then cd? Reason i ask is that i am sure i read somewhere that cd>cs, if my memory serves me right anyway but maybe that was for when i get higher RR maybe?
Sorry if it seems like a really dumb question but u know i am a newb when it comes to NS despite grping with so many good ones over the years.

People will disagree over this but i think 39 cs is high enough till rr5 as u want 40ish(Composite) or near offhand spec for good baseline damage ... let the flame begin ... i have an opinion :(
 

Neffneff

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Oct 22, 2004
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Go 44 CS without a doubt, the new abs debuff on hammy chain makes it well worth it. im gonna go ahead and copy a guide to speccing here from catacombs. i have used this guide roughly for most my career, and it held strong, even checked it some months ago with dps calc, and it seemed to be about right with dps.

Tazilion said:
Universal 50 Level Spec Guide (Updated to inlcude Basic Spec Theory) 01/07/05 12:11 AM
There are two parts to this thread:

PART I discusses basic theory of 50 level speccing.
PART II presents 2 systems to give you an extremely balanced 50 level spec as a Night shade.

PART I: SPEC THEORY

WEAPON SPEC:

The dominant influence on weapon speccing today is the 51 Combined idea, commonly called "Wryd's Spec". (I prefer not to call it Wyrd's Spec because the idea existed LONG before he posted data confirming it's viability.)

51 Combined specs adjust Weapon Spec plus Bonuses to equal 51. Above 51 Combined wep spec, increases to Base Damage gained from Weapon Spec cease. That means, all other things being equal, you will get the same Base Damage at 51 Combined as you do at 52 Combined, 63 Combined or any other total above 51.

At the same time, to date, no tests have shown that your miss, blocked, parried, evaded rates suffer negative effects from stopping at 51 Combined unless you are debuffed. Since we have Remedy to protect against debuffs in most situations, 51 Combined becomes an extremely effective speccing technique for Nightshades.

STEALTH SPEC:

It has been known for a long time that speccing above 50 Combined in Stealth yields minimal to non-observable benefit. Your stealthed Speed caps at 50. Going above 50 very slightly reduces detection distances, but it is not an effective way to spend spec Points. At the same time, while 50 Combined is optimal, you can get by with Stealth slightly lower than 50. Especially at low RRs, Shades will often skimp 1-2 points of Stealth to obtain desired levels in other Spec Lines. While possible to use successfully, sub-50 Combined stealth specs provide less than optimal performance.

ENVENOM SPEC:

Envenom is one of the most debated spec lines we have. Many Shades swear by it. Others say it is not as important you think. Based on our current knowledge of how everything works, I'm a strong advocate of Lifebane for mid- to higher RR Shades. At low RRs, you simply don't have enough spec points to optimize every line, so I recommend Shades with RR4 or less specs get 47 Combined Envenom and advance to Lifebane at RR5. Below RR4-5, you don't have enough RA points to get Viper, so the loss of Lifebane is not a huge factor.

You should only go to 50 Envenom IF you are using some level of Viper.

CELTIC DUAL (CD)/ CRITICAL STRIKE (CS) SPEC:

Your levels of Pierce/Blades, Stealth and Envenom (47 or 50) and pretty much set in stone, so your CD/CS specs are the only areas in which you have much flexibility.

Your primary goal with CD is to get Ice Storm, the level 18 side positonal, 4 second Stun. Ice Storm is an extremely useful style - one EVERY 50 level Shade should have. Above 18, however, higher CD is icing on the cake.

CD Spec is unique for Nightshades in that you derive benefit almost exclusively from the extra off hand hits you obtain from it. Unlike other classes who use CD styles as their primary melee Styles (thus benefit from increased CD every swing), if we don't get an extra off hand hit, we gain nothing from increased CD spec. Snowshower and Ice Storm are the exceptions to this rule for us, but they are used so infrequently relative to our total number of swings they aren't a significant factor in spec decisions (just like using Diamondback as a Pierce style doesn't unfluence our spec decisions).

What this means is the added damage we get from increased CD is lumped into the specific fights where we get the additional off hands, as opposed to being spread out over all our fights. This frequently means a change in CS/CD might give us better average DPS with higher CD but that higher DPS only occurs in 1-3 out of 10 fights - leaving us at a DPS disadvantage in our other 7-9 fights.

Because of this, I am changing my previous approach and looking at it from a persepctive of Most Fights Helped as opposed to Best Average DPS.

The current Guide will give you higher DPS in the majority of your fights. It will not always give you the highest average DPS. This is a subtle but distinct difference in methodology.

OVERALL SPEC:

Beacuse you advance through the lower Realm Ranks so quickly, you should build your first spec for RR4 or RR5. Even if you start at 0 Realm Points, if you group with other stealths, it is conceivable you could make RR3 in one week and RR4 in under 1 month. At the same time, it will take approximately 2.5 times the RPs to advance from RR4 to RR5 as it did to go from scratch all the way up to RR4.

Your beginning spec will underperform for a short time while you rise from RR1 to RR4 or 5, but is preferrable to aiming for a RR1-3 spec for monetary reasons: a RR1-3 spec will cause you to spend money on a respec stone after a short period of play. Currently, they are way too expensive for such excess - you are better served spending that money on gear which will make your first template strong. Your template will affect your overall performance much more than will a
slightly-above-your-RR Spec.

PART II: THE UNIVERSAL 50 LEVEL SPEC GUIDE

Use a Spec Calculator such as the one here on Catacombs (Character Builder 2) to follow these steps. (You can find the Character Builder right over there to your left and up a little in the TOOLS area of the Site Menu.)

TERMS USED:

Combined = Spec PLUS Bonuses
Pure = Spec WITHOUT Bonuses

Bonuses:
You get +11 through Spellcrafting and +(RR-1) for Realm Rank.
Thus, if you are RR4, you would get 11+3 = +14
If you are RR7, you would get 11+6 = +17

RECOMMENDED SPEC GUIDE (optimizes Most Fights Helped):

1) Raise Wep Spec Combined to 51.
2) Raise Stealth Combined to 50.
3) Is Viper being used in conjunction with this RR5 or higher spec?
Yes: Raise Envenom Combined to 50 and move to step 4.
No: Raise Envenom Combined to 47 and move to step 4.
4) Raise CD Pure to 18.
5) Raise CS Pure as high as possible.
6) Use spec point leftovers to raise CD Pure as much as possible.

This system is designed to:

1) Give you the best possible base damage relative to Weapon Spec (based on Wyrd's tests).
2) Max your Stealth.
3) Give you the best possible Envenom based on whether you want to use Viper or not.
4) Ensure you have Ice Storm, the invaluable CD 4 second stun side style.
5) Optimize your CS/CD spec to produce max melee damage in the majority of your fights.

NOTE: although this system will give you higher DPS in the majority of your fights, the ALTERNATE SPEC GUIDE may give you higher average DPS overall. The Alternate Guide concetrates your DPS advantage into a few specific fights at the expense of the majority of your fights. It will often yield a higher average DPS, but the DPS is NOT applied smoothly to all your fights, putting you at a DPS disadvantage in many of your fights.

If you prefer a larger degree of DPS advantage in SOME fights and are willing ot give up smaller amounts of DPS in MANY fights to get it, then use the following guide:

ALTERNATE SPEC GUIDE (optimizes Best Average DPS):

1) Raise Wep Spec Combined to 51.
2) Raise Stealth Combined to 50.
3) Is Viper being used in conjunction with this RR5 or higher spec?
Yes: Raise Envenom Combined to 50 and move to step 4.
No: Raise Envenom Combined to 47 and move to step 4.
4) Raise CD Pure to 18.
5) Raise CS Pure as high as possible.
6) Use spec point leftovers to raise CD Pure as much as possible.
7) Lower CS by 1 point.
8) Can you lift CD by 2 points?
Yes: Lift CD 2 points and return to Step 7.
No: Return the point to CS and move to step 9.
9) Raise CD Pure by 1, if possible.

This system is designed to:

1) Give you the best possible base damage relative to Weapon Spec (based on Wyrd's tests).
2) Max your Stealth.
3) Give you the best possible Envenom based on whether you want to use Viper or not.
4) Ensure you have Ice Storm, the invaluable CD 4 second stun side style.
5) Give you the highest average DPS (based on my tests).

Either System will give you fantastic results, however the Recommneded Guide will help you in more fights than the Alternate System. The Alternate System won't help you in as many fights but will give you MORE help in a select few.

The choice is yours...

Feedback is welcome.

Tazilon Midbane, 50 NS RR10 ML10, PNG [Lions of Lamfhota]
CANCELLED ACCOUNT due to Mythic's NERFING of Shades in 1.82
 

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