Healers haste buff, truth.

[Melachi-]

Soooo many times, ive been told, "dont give me a PoA! it makes me hit for less but faster", been told that it gimps zerkers ect ect

the truth is...


========================================
Q: I heard that the primary melee classes don’t want haste buffs, because they will not hit as hard each combat round.

A: Completely not true – a haste buff makes you attack faster and does not affect your damage per swing at all.

Sanya Thomas
2/14/03 Grab Bag
=========================================

Phew, PoA's all round

 

[spankya]

Its the qui/dex buffs from shammies that make tanks hit for less, but haste pwns!

 

[old.Elrond]

I wouldn't believe everything you read in a grab bag tbh

 

[mavericky]

apparantly it doesnt affect base damage, not so sure about styled damage though

 

[-mamba-]

tested that myself recently, blue con healer haste (conc buff) decreased dmg cap by approx 80dmg (cant remember which style, snowsquall or doublefrost anyway), celerity even more

not first time grab bag got incorrect information

 

[Big-G-]

well yea i heard its styled that gets a bit messy with haste buff and unstyled is unaffected dmg wise
haste coupled with skald dmg add tho is nice :>

and smel.. go on irc from time to time kk?

 

[Hit ^_^]

same whit alb/theurgist haste.
noticed that warden speed self buff wont bring down the dmg tho.

 

[poi]

With haste or qui buff, your styles bonus will be lower- but u attack alot faster = more damage over time!

169 qui:
[21:39:07] You perform your Doublefrost perfectly. (+170)
[21:39:07] You attack Tallrik with your axe and hit for 272 (-17) damage!
[21:39:07] You attack Tallrik with your axe and hit for 63 (-4) damage!
[21:39:07] You critical hit for an additional 21 damage!

And now with 234:

[21:47:52] You perform your Doublefrost perfectly. (+115)
[21:47:52] You attack Krait with your axe and hit for 169 (-28) damage!
[21:47:52] You critical hit for an additional 25 damage!
[21:47:52] You attack Krait with your axe and hit for 34 (-6) damage!

 

[swords]

haste can be good sometimes.
especially on an eb'd dual wielding class, bubble poping has never been easier

 

[klavrynd]

tests have proven (proved?) that damage does not plummet with self haste and celerity , but does with so-called ghetto haste

 

[-mamba-]

its obvious +qui decreases dmg/hit so didnt bother with it.. here some results about testing with healer haste & celerity. after testing i find the grab bag information very hard to believe

forgot to turn chat log on though - took a screenshot instead

http://personal.inet.fi/koti/sahokas/dmgcaps.jpg

done with healer (36 aug spec), blue conc haste buff and yellow celerity

in case the screenshot doesnt work, mainhand dmg caps on gray mob with snowsquall:

unbuffed: 633 (+2155)
conc haste only: 566 (+1507)
celerity only: 495 (+1258)
conc haste+celerity: 428 (+1052)

style bonus and dmg/hit drops a lot you see of course you hit a LOT faster with capped qui and haste+celerity (tried that for a few weeks in daily rvr), and very likely do more damage over time but fg vs fg rvr is all about frontloading damage atm, especially if tanks use /assist... in my opinion at least

btw those figures are with 55 quick (yes i gimped myself by putting +5 quick in the beginning) and mp double bladed axe (4.2 speed, 16.2 dps), caps are a bit lower with cleaver

 

[~Mobius~]

So would an alchemists haste proc on armor etc affect damage per hit at all?

 

[knackor(MID)]

HI SMELACHI ;XXXX
XP XP XP TEH SM


ARIBA

 

[Shike]

styledamage is based on delay, and hastebuffs decreases the delay thus decreses the styled damage, however, can someone test if it really affects the basedamage when hitting unstyled/hit? My guess its nearly the same but probably some % lower due to mythics weird coding.

 

[Solid]

no haste buff, celerity or +Qui buff/items effect your base damage, ie if you hit for 200 base damage with 35 Qui, you will hit for 200 base damage with 150 Qui also.

Styled damage and damage adds have always been DPS ie scaled down based on your swing delay (which is reduced by +Qui and hastes and celerity).

Its a matter of giving up the big hits for a faster damage over time, its NOT about giving up damage.

DAMAGE PER HIT is not the same as DAMAGE OVER TIME.

 

[ExTheRex]

agreed, haste buffs is uber, but if u want qui buff u either need to have loads of qui when buffed, or very low qui.

 

[old.Emma]

Here`s a couple formula's to work out your hasted delay on a weapon.

This takes into account +qui from items and any haste buffs you have, it doesnt take into account celerity though although its just a matter of adding the normal haste and celerity percentages togeather.

Effective Speed = SPD * ( 1 – ( Quickness – 60 ) / 500) ) * ( 1 – Haste%)

So for example to get the hasted speed of a 4.0 speed cleaver with 154 quickness and the level 40 PoA, Lesser Purity of Aggression which is a 17% haste buff, you would do this.

4.0 * ( 1 - ( 154 - 60 ) / 500 )) * ( 1 - .17) = 2.69 seconds

if we had both the 17% haste buff and the level 44 celerity haste buff that would give us a total of 39% haste so we would have this.

4.0 * ( 1 - ( 154 - 60 ) / 500 )) * ( 1 - .39) =1.68 seconds


your style caps are directly related to you swing speed the faster you swing the lower the style cap is.

an example of how it effects style bonus can be found here

damage cap of a 4.1 speed 16.2 dps bastard sword is 211 damage, using lets say Ragnarok which has a style growth rate of 0.90 We would do this:

Troll with 35 qui no +items or qui buffs with 65 Sword spec

To get the Effective swing speed for the weapon we do this.

4.1 * ( 1 - ( 35 - 60 ) / 500 )) * ( 1 - 0) = 4.305

Style Multiplier would be:

(( .90 * 65) * 4.305) / 211 = 1.1935

Style Bonus would be:

211 * 1.1935 = 251.82

You Perform Ragnarok Perfectly! (+251)
you hit random thing with your sword and hit for 462 damage!

Now same style but this time a Troll with 185 quickness and Lesser Purity of Aggression 17% haste buff

Effective Swing speed for this would be.

4.1 * ( 1 - ( 185 - 60) / 500 )) * ( 1 - .17) = 2.552

Style Multiplier would be:

(( .90 * 65) * 2.552) / 211 = 0.7075

Style Bonus would be:

211 * 0.7075 = 148.2825

You Perform Ragnarok Perfectly! (+148)
you hit random thing with your sword and hit for 359 damage!

The difference being you are now attacking 1.753 seconds faster.

 

[~Mobius~]

I just wanted an answer not quanton physics.

 

[Sarnat]

Simple answer: haste makes your damage over time greater, damage per (styled) swing lesser.

 

[scarffs]

Conclusion is, Mobius, that haste/celerity increases attack speed and decreases style bonus by the same percentage, so your style bonus over time will be the same.
However, base damage is unaffected by haste, so you hit more base damage over time.

Haste = more damage over time but smaller hits.

/salute

 

[succi]

Did lots of tests,

In Hib quickness and haste buffs affects the damage and cap of all styles except those from the Critical Strike line.

 

[old.Emma]

Yep the only styles that are not affected by quickness and haste buffs are PA/BS1/BS2. all other styles are affected by increased quickness and haste buffs.

 

[succi]

Garrote etc isnt affected either I dont think....

 

[old.Emma]

Originally posted by succi
Garrote etc isnt affected either I dont think....

aye it is, unlike PA/BS1/BS2 all styles use a growth rate to detemine style bonus. When calculating the style multiplier (the +xxx) bit it takes into account effective swing speed amongst other things.

For CS styles like PA etc it uses a set formula that doesnt change regardless of quickness or haste buffs.

that formula is

Perforate Artery Cap = 75 + Critical Strike Spec * 9 + Nonstyle Cap

Backstab II Cap = 45 + Critical Strike Spec * 6 + Nonstyle Cap

Backstab I Cap = ~5 + Critical Strike Spec * 14 / 3 + Nonstyle Cap

 

[Big-G-]

damn emma thats some maths u got goin there ;/

 

[Solid]

amazing what gems of info you can find on WhineGN when you look hard enuff, emma just happens to not be lazy and actually takes time to find things out for him/her self

 

[old.Emma]

Not only that solid but by taking the time to actually do that ive learnt a hell of a lot about the differences in style lines like left axe, celtic duel and duel wield. ofcourse i havent posted those results any where from the tests ive done, ive handed them straight to the TL`s to look over, because you know what would happen if i did.

 

[Big-G-]

tis nice to know fings
what'll u do when the next mmorpg comes along tho? ;pp

leats my chemistry makes 'sense' all the time! ..

 

[Solid]

Big-G thats the joy of learning.

You can never sotp learning, and gaining knowledge is fun.

I did Biochemistry at Uni, i LOVED every lecture I attended, the learning aspect was ace, but I have forgotton most of it thru lack of application, does that mean it was any less enjoyable? no.

Next MMO that comes alogn i like, i will no doubt learn loads about it too and get to the poitn where I understand the game on a level with my current daoc understanding.

 

[vukstinaitor]

Solid you are supposed to be retired and cant post here, sorry.