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klavrynd
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do haste buffs alter your damage like high quickness does ?
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SilverHood
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- #2
you mean like boltering gust (alb) and purity of attack (mid?)
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klavrynd
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- #3
that's the ones
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SilverHood
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- #4
Think they just make you hit faster?
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ImLestat
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- #5
What I think Klav mean here is if you for example have a weapon that is 16.2 dps and 2.5 speed. Now, if we say that someone cast the attack speed buff, that speed decreases to 2.0. If then the dps (16.2) stays the same, then the attack speed buff is pretty pointless...
Someone asked Sanya (Mythic) this exact question in a friday grab bag (if it is what I described above). She said that while the attack speed was decreased, the dps was upped as well in accordance.
Someone asked Sanya (Mythic) this exact question in a friday grab bag (if it is what I described above). She said that while the attack speed was decreased, the dps was upped as well in accordance.
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klavrynd
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- #6
meaning you hit as hard as you do unbuffed but only faster?
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Flimgoblin
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- #7
I think the quickness thing is a myth...
If it were to make any sense it'd do this:
Work out your damage for a strike
dps*weapon speed
Work out the delay till next hit
speed/haste modifiers.
If improving your quickness were to do nothing to your damage over time then it'd be pretty stupid
Haste buffs have been confirmed not to reduce your strike damage...
what you can do for quickness is find a quickness item (or a quickness buff? do we have them? enhance spec cleric?)
Hit a blue 10 times, get a quickness buff, hit another blue 10 times.
Compare the damages.
if you can, make it 100 each time
If it were to make any sense it'd do this:
Work out your damage for a strike
dps*weapon speed
Work out the delay till next hit
speed/haste modifiers.
If improving your quickness were to do nothing to your damage over time then it'd be pretty stupid
Haste buffs have been confirmed not to reduce your strike damage...
what you can do for quickness is find a quickness item (or a quickness buff? do we have them? enhance spec cleric?)
Hit a blue 10 times, get a quickness buff, hit another blue 10 times.
Compare the damages.
if you can, make it 100 each time
O
old.Revz
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- #8
Putting DPS on a weapon instead of just a pure damage / delay and making you to work out the dps yourself was a really bad idea in my opinion It makes things more confusing, not less, and throws up all these sorts of situations where there are exceptions to the rule with buffs.
It gets even worse with damage buffs, attack speed buffs (ie. haste) and damage shields.
It makes things more confusing, not less, and throws up all these sorts of situations where there are exceptions to the rule with buffs.It gets even worse with damage buffs, attack speed buffs (ie. haste) and damage shields.
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old.Azrak
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- #9
I grabbed the following text from Neill (Warden TL's) Warden FAQ regarding quickness and attack speed buffs, which may help.
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How does our haste (and quickness) impact our damage?
This is one of the most asked questions since Warden's have the best haste spell in game. At spec 47 Wardens get a 38%, self-only haste spell with a 10 minute duration. Additionally, if you start as a Celt you can chose to focus (to some degree) on quickness gear. A quickness score over 60 will give you a secondary haste effect that has the same impact as our spell based haste, just to a more limited degree.
Haste reduces your swing time (weapon delay). As a result it magnifies your base and critical hit damage because you swing more times and because haste does not significantly lower your damage per hit. There is aparently a very minor reduction to damage due to not getting a slow weapon bonus, but this difference is in the area of a couple points of damage per hit (it's not significant). So with a quickness of 60 and a 38% haste you do 61% more base and critical damage (1/(1-0.38)). It's a huge win.
As mentioned, haste only impacts base and critical damage. It does not benefit style or damage add damage. They are a fixed at a specific DPS. So when you swing faster due to a haste effect the damage done with styles and damage adds is reduced for each hit such that over time you do the same amount of damage as if you were not hasted. In the case of styles the end cost is reduced as well so you do not waste endurance.
As an example, suppose you have enough quickness to get a 10% haste effect (approximately 120), are spec 47 in Nurture (38% haste), and wield a 4s delay Glimmerspirit Sword. Your effective delay is:
4s * (1-0.10) * (1-0.38) = 2.2s
That's effectively an 82% base and critical hit damage output gain over someone using the sword with no haste or quickness bonus.
Now assume that without quickness or haste you hit for 60 and do 20 points of style (or dmg add) damage. In a 44s fight you would hit 11 times for 60 + 20 for a total of 660 + 220 damage. With the above haste and quickness bonus you would hit 20 times for 60 + 11 (because style/dmg add damage is the same over time) for a total of 1200 + 220.
So in that example, with the haste and quickness you do 1420 / 880 or 61% more damage (82% more base damage and the same style damage). In otherwords, it's a huge win.
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You can find the entire FAQ at http://acm.cse.msu.edu/~penney/warden_faq.html
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How does our haste (and quickness) impact our damage?
This is one of the most asked questions since Warden's have the best haste spell in game. At spec 47 Wardens get a 38%, self-only haste spell with a 10 minute duration. Additionally, if you start as a Celt you can chose to focus (to some degree) on quickness gear. A quickness score over 60 will give you a secondary haste effect that has the same impact as our spell based haste, just to a more limited degree.
Haste reduces your swing time (weapon delay). As a result it magnifies your base and critical hit damage because you swing more times and because haste does not significantly lower your damage per hit. There is aparently a very minor reduction to damage due to not getting a slow weapon bonus, but this difference is in the area of a couple points of damage per hit (it's not significant). So with a quickness of 60 and a 38% haste you do 61% more base and critical damage (1/(1-0.38)). It's a huge win.
As mentioned, haste only impacts base and critical damage. It does not benefit style or damage add damage. They are a fixed at a specific DPS. So when you swing faster due to a haste effect the damage done with styles and damage adds is reduced for each hit such that over time you do the same amount of damage as if you were not hasted. In the case of styles the end cost is reduced as well so you do not waste endurance.
As an example, suppose you have enough quickness to get a 10% haste effect (approximately 120), are spec 47 in Nurture (38% haste), and wield a 4s delay Glimmerspirit Sword. Your effective delay is:
4s * (1-0.10) * (1-0.38) = 2.2s
That's effectively an 82% base and critical hit damage output gain over someone using the sword with no haste or quickness bonus.
Now assume that without quickness or haste you hit for 60 and do 20 points of style (or dmg add) damage. In a 44s fight you would hit 11 times for 60 + 20 for a total of 660 + 220 damage. With the above haste and quickness bonus you would hit 20 times for 60 + 11 (because style/dmg add damage is the same over time) for a total of 1200 + 220.
So in that example, with the haste and quickness you do 1420 / 880 or 61% more damage (82% more base damage and the same style damage). In otherwords, it's a huge win.
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You can find the entire FAQ at http://acm.cse.msu.edu/~penney/warden_faq.html
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Flimgoblin
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- #10
Originally posted by old.Revz
Putting DPS on a weapon instead of just a pure damage / delay and making you to work out the dps yourself was a really bad idea in my opinion
It gets even worse with damage buffs, attack speed buffs (ie. haste) and damage shields.
It means you can go 'ok this axe is the same level as this axe, but hits faster' easily.
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Wend
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- #11
Increasing quickness allows you to hit faster for the same base damage per hit, but style damage is reduced to compensate.
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Flimgoblin
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- #12
your style damage over time stays the same... but reduces per hit...
your base damage stays the same per hit - increases over time...
so if you want a massive styled whack it's best to have low quick?
your base damage stays the same per hit - increases over time...
so if you want a massive styled whack it's best to have low quick?
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klavrynd
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- #13
if you're going for oneshot you use a high qua slow ass weapon
since the first hit has no swing timer you inflict massive damage at 0 delay.
when dual wielding there's a special situation
swing timers are calculated (delay weapon a + delay weapon b)/2 but you use end for the weapon you use in main hand and you do damage according to the delay stated on each weapon
so using a 4.0 delay and a 2.4 delay weapon brings your overall speed to (4+2.2)/2 = 3.1 , main hand hits for 4.0 delay giving massive damage and +/- 25% faster but uses endurance for a 4.0 delay weapon which is alot
since the first hit has no swing timer you inflict massive damage at 0 delay.
when dual wielding there's a special situation
swing timers are calculated (delay weapon a + delay weapon b)/2 but you use end for the weapon you use in main hand and you do damage according to the delay stated on each weapon
so using a 4.0 delay and a 2.4 delay weapon brings your overall speed to (4+2.2)/2 = 3.1 , main hand hits for 4.0 delay giving massive damage and +/- 25% faster but uses endurance for a 4.0 delay weapon which is alot