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SAS
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http://www.game.uk.com/review.asp?tab=ps2&rev_id=140011
Tempted but is the game worth buying with the wheel?
Tempted but is the game worth buying with the wheel?
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stu
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- #2
My mate got GT3 with 2 of the Logitech wheels yesterday. I had a few goes on it, thoughts were (ps lots of the criticisms apply to just about any steering wheel that's available for a home system):
- Unless you've got a table at the perfect height, forget it - if you have to sit like a monkey it kind of destroys the whole point. Your table/desk edge needs to be quite high up (certainly higher than you have a PC keyboard) to make it comfortable. Added to which, the clamps on the wheel don't extend very far.
- It only works with GT3. Not a very good investment, if you think about it.
- To say it "works" with GT3 is a bit of a pisstake. There aren't enough buttons on the wheel to cover all the functions. Basically, you can have external view OR reverse, but not both. There is an "A" button, but you can't bind it in the GT3 options screen. Dunno if this is a bug or not, but if it is it's a pretty shitty one.
- The biggest problem of all, the whole thing feels a bit flimsy (especially the pedals). I play things like Sega Rally 2, Le Mans 24Hr etc quite a lot in the arcade, and unfortunately there are NO home wheel/pedal systems that come anywhere near the level of feedback you get from arcade machines. I also used to go Kart racing a fair amount. I found playing GT3 I could easily steer through any understeer, oversteer slides, lockups under braking, etc. The wheel does let you know when all these things are happening, which is good, but the 'force feedback' isnt sufficiently strong to force you into a "natural" reaction (if that makes sense - anyone who has done any sort of motor racing will understand what I mean). Whereas with Sega Rally 2, if you come round a corner into a powerslide, the feeling from the wheel causes you instinctively to throw on some opposite lock to counter it, with the GT3 wheel you just sort of steer through it.
- The molding on the wheel is pretty poor - it's been push molded in 2 pieces, with the rubbery stuff where your hands go. Except, the rubbery stuff doesn't go all the way round, and the rim of the wheel catches the inside of your palm. After only 4 or 5 games, it was starting to rub my hands badly enough to have to stop using it.
Overall, it's "fun for 5 minutes". Not worth £60 in my opinion. Personally, I wouldn't buy any home wheel/pedal kits out there. But, crucially, if this is your thing, the GT3 wheel isn't the best example of one anyway. I have no idea what the situation is like with PS2 wheels at the moment, but whatever it is you can bet that there are going to be a fair few released once GT3 sells the millions of units that it's expected to. So I'd sit tight and wait for a product from someone like Thrustmaster.
- Unless you've got a table at the perfect height, forget it - if you have to sit like a monkey it kind of destroys the whole point. Your table/desk edge needs to be quite high up (certainly higher than you have a PC keyboard) to make it comfortable. Added to which, the clamps on the wheel don't extend very far.
- It only works with GT3. Not a very good investment, if you think about it.
- To say it "works" with GT3 is a bit of a pisstake. There aren't enough buttons on the wheel to cover all the functions. Basically, you can have external view OR reverse, but not both. There is an "A" button, but you can't bind it in the GT3 options screen. Dunno if this is a bug or not, but if it is it's a pretty shitty one.
- The biggest problem of all, the whole thing feels a bit flimsy (especially the pedals). I play things like Sega Rally 2, Le Mans 24Hr etc quite a lot in the arcade, and unfortunately there are NO home wheel/pedal systems that come anywhere near the level of feedback you get from arcade machines. I also used to go Kart racing a fair amount. I found playing GT3 I could easily steer through any understeer, oversteer slides, lockups under braking, etc. The wheel does let you know when all these things are happening, which is good, but the 'force feedback' isnt sufficiently strong to force you into a "natural" reaction (if that makes sense - anyone who has done any sort of motor racing will understand what I mean). Whereas with Sega Rally 2, if you come round a corner into a powerslide, the feeling from the wheel causes you instinctively to throw on some opposite lock to counter it, with the GT3 wheel you just sort of steer through it.
- The molding on the wheel is pretty poor - it's been push molded in 2 pieces, with the rubbery stuff where your hands go. Except, the rubbery stuff doesn't go all the way round, and the rim of the wheel catches the inside of your palm. After only 4 or 5 games, it was starting to rub my hands badly enough to have to stop using it.
Overall, it's "fun for 5 minutes". Not worth £60 in my opinion. Personally, I wouldn't buy any home wheel/pedal kits out there. But, crucially, if this is your thing, the GT3 wheel isn't the best example of one anyway. I have no idea what the situation is like with PS2 wheels at the moment, but whatever it is you can bet that there are going to be a fair few released once GT3 sells the millions of units that it's expected to. So I'd sit tight and wait for a product from someone like Thrustmaster.
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SoWat
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- #3
I recently went through a period of playing car racing games, and decided to buy a wheel. I plumped for the Thrustmaster Modena jobby. it has foot pedals, but also little flippers on the wheel itself for gear shifting and braking. Tons of buttons too.
Wheels are ideally suited for first person racers, rather than the 3rd person view ones, and are pretty good when a utility like the thrustmapper mapper are used. You can store your preferences for each game, and they are automatically loaded when the game starts.
The big downside, as Stu mentioned, is the position of the wheels/pedals. I have one of those desks that goes up against two walls, like an L shape. My monitor sits in the 'corner' bit, with all the gubbins that find their way onto PC users desks scattered about. The desk is quite long (7'), but it was still very difficult to set up the wheel/pedals for a comfortable play. If one was prepared to move the monitor about, along with the case, then no doubt a good position could be found. I couldn't be bothered and, after a few weeks, the wheel now languishes in the cupboard along with the boomslang and all the other bits and bobs I thought were a good idea at the time.
If one was serious about one's racing games, then no doubt the kit would be moved around to fit.
Wheels are ideally suited for first person racers, rather than the 3rd person view ones, and are pretty good when a utility like the thrustmapper mapper are used. You can store your preferences for each game, and they are automatically loaded when the game starts.
The big downside, as Stu mentioned, is the position of the wheels/pedals. I have one of those desks that goes up against two walls, like an L shape. My monitor sits in the 'corner' bit, with all the gubbins that find their way onto PC users desks scattered about. The desk is quite long (7'), but it was still very difficult to set up the wheel/pedals for a comfortable play. If one was prepared to move the monitor about, along with the case, then no doubt a good position could be found. I couldn't be bothered and, after a few weeks, the wheel now languishes in the cupboard along with the boomslang and all the other bits and bobs I thought were a good idea at the time.
If one was serious about one's racing games, then no doubt the kit would be moved around to fit.
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Trebz
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- #4
In my ever so humble opinion, Gran Turismo 3 is an overhyped, overrated console game. Why? cos its a console game and console users dont appear to realise everything in GT3 can easily be done on a PC and has been already to a much better degree, hence they rant and rave about how fucking sweet it is when us PC users have seen it all before. Sure, the game looks pretty, it drives nicely...but where exactly is the realism in being able to bounce yourself round a corner at high speed off the inside of the opponents cars without having any damage to your car? humph...
I'm not best pleased atm, i'll probably take it back if it doesnt get my interests soon, then i'll probs sell my ps2.
I'm not best pleased atm, i'll probably take it back if it doesnt get my interests soon, then i'll probs sell my ps2.
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Ono
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- #5
I would buy the game and the wheel.
I have tried them both and the Force Feedback wheel rocks!
GT3 A Spec is only one of the first PS2 racers out as well remember!
I have tried them both and the Force Feedback wheel rocks!
GT3 A Spec is only one of the first PS2 racers out as well remember!
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old.Kurt_Angle
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- #6
Iv'e allways been happy with my thrustmaster GT force wheel. The hight is perfect on my desk, and i built a foot rest for the pedals to get the right hight for them too
Don't realy suit every game though, colin mcrae 2 is better on the keys. However things like need for speed 3 and 5, toca 2 and nascar 4 are the dogs with a wheel. I don't think you can buy a gt force no more though, shame because imho it's the best wheel on the pc outside the arcades.
Don't realy suit every game though, colin mcrae 2 is better on the keys. However things like need for speed 3 and 5, toca 2 and nascar 4 are the dogs with a wheel. I don't think you can buy a gt force no more though, shame because imho it's the best wheel on the pc outside the arcades.
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old.Kez
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- #7
Give me your PS2 Twebz :///
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DAN200
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- #8
Bloody Playstation.
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Durzel
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- #9
Ahh the perennial Consoles vs PCs debate. The question you need to ask yourself is would you be so negative if GT3 was a PC game? I doubt it.
I have both a PC and a PS2 (so do you curiously enough?) so I have the luxury of impartiality. I'd be "ranting and raving" about it if it were a PC game, or a Dreamcast game, or an arcade game. The platform is exists on is irrelevant.
Damage logic was originally on the cards a while back, and the creators have been asked countless times by different gaming mags why it hasn't been implemented. As I recall, there were two main issues - one is the fact that most manufacturers are sensitive to the idea of their cars being smashed up. Perhaps this is because there is a remote possibility that some dimwitted no brainer will play GT3, smash up the Porsche they've just bought and think "hmm that didn't handle that accident very well, best not buy one of those!" (when they'd hit a wall at 200mph).
Secondly, as AI goes - GT3 is much like its predecessors. The AI isn't particularly clever and works on a simple waypoint system. Cars have very limited awareness of surrounding (other cars, etc). Consequently they pretty much always bang into eachother, into the back of you if you slow down slightly, etc.
There is also the issue of clock cycles. Proper, real life damage modelling requires a sizeable amount of CPU cycles. I would imagine GT3 is already pushing the PS2 to its very limits, with damage logic/modelling running as well, you could quite easily lose 10fps.
Fundamentally if the ability (or rather inability) to damage ones car is a minor concern when you take into account how accurately the cars drive, how amazing the visuals are (car reflections, heat rising off the tarmac, brake discs glowing under heavy braking), how many days/weeks/month of playing time there is in the game.
As much of a gaming cliché it is to say that something is "true to real life", I challenge anyone to sit and watch a GT3 replay and not be in awe of the attention to detail and how amazingly life like it looks etc. It is without doubt the most authentic looking driving game bar none. It's worth buying a PS2 just for the game (especially since it won't be released on any other platform)
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lovedaddy
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- #10
Nice post Durzel.
You right in thinking that the main reason for the lack of mesh deformation (damage models to you and me) was primarily down to manufactures requests, in the same way that your car never gets covered in dirt.
I've been playing the Jap version for a month or 2 now, and whilst I still think MSR on the Dreamcast was more fun to play, GT3 is one amazing game. Don’t know about the wheel, but even without it, GT3 is the business.
You right in thinking that the main reason for the lack of mesh deformation (damage models to you and me) was primarily down to manufactures requests, in the same way that your car never gets covered in dirt.
I've been playing the Jap version for a month or 2 now, and whilst I still think MSR on the Dreamcast was more fun to play, GT3 is one amazing game. Don’t know about the wheel, but even without it, GT3 is the business.
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Wij
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- #11
oooh, u moody bastard dan
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Trebz
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- #12
I'm reconsidering my opinion atm, i've played it a bit more and it is kinda addictive. I do miss my car damage tho :/ It would be lovely to nudge opponents off the track and watch them plough into the wall with a satisfying crunch....
As you may notice, im the kinda guy that watches the last show of the rally season to see all the crashes.
As you may notice, im the kinda guy that watches the last show of the rally season to see all the crashes.
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Wij
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- #13
So worth me getting a copy ?
And which wheel ?
And which wheel ?
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Trebz
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- #14
GT3 wheel is supposed to be damn fine, but its ps2 only. Rumour has it one of the PC wheels works with it though, the ferrari one.
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]SK[
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- #15
i got a copy...well worth it!
tis the most popular game for it atm. That is untill MGS2.
i got 50,000 to buy a decent car with. Curently tempted by the Impreza 22B or Mitsu Evo.
tis the most popular game for it atm. That is untill MGS2.
i got 50,000 to buy a decent car with. Curently tempted by the Impreza 22B or Mitsu Evo.
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Ono
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- #16
I remember Destruction Derby on PSX.
What a load of bollox it was.
Daytona 2001 on DC has damage
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bodhi
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- #17
GT3 is les testicules du chien. Better graphics than I have seen on any platform (PC, Arcade, Console) and that oh so perfect GT gameplay. The rallying is fucking uber and the handling is absolutely superb. I have heard two main criticisms about the best game of the year so far.
1) No damage. Durz has covered the main points. In addition in a game where money is in short supply to begin with, do you really want to be spending cash you cant afford because you slammed your Impreza into a wall?
2) Fewer cars. Oh no. I cant drive a 1.6 Focus anymore. Gutted. No more Vauxhall Corsas or Vectras. Shucks. You get the idea. Only glaring emission as far as im concerned is the BMW M-series.
1) No damage. Durz has covered the main points. In addition in a game where money is in short supply to begin with, do you really want to be spending cash you cant afford because you slammed your Impreza into a wall?
2) Fewer cars. Oh no. I cant drive a 1.6 Focus anymore. Gutted. No more Vauxhall Corsas or Vectras. Shucks. You get the idea. Only glaring emission as far as im concerned is the BMW M-series.
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lovedaddy
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- #18
Has anyone tried using say the microsoft force feedback USB wheel in the PS2 with GT3? If not I could always set one up here at work.
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Durzel
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- #19
I concur there.
I was looking forward to seeing some meaty BMWs in the game, Alpinas etc but alas only the standard 3 series is available
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Embattle
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- #20
1 reason I don't like GT3...lack of car damage