Great imbalance Minstrel and midgard

[herjulf]

I have been annoyed quite some time over the minstrels abilities.
Not only is it a light tank with ALMOST the same melee strenght as for example skald, but to add to that they ALL skald abilities, also have infinite mezzes, stuns, power regen, confusion, evade 2 and
They will also in close future patches get:

1. AE MEZZ - 5sec recast = UNLIMITED
2. Cure Mezz "27 Focusing Chant"

This gives Albion several AE mezzers, and several mezz breakers.
Making the most likely strongest realm there is character wise even stronger.

It is a friggin outrage. uke:
This is an outcry for justice. I think there are ENOUGH AE mezzers as there is.
And giving mythics most loved class in the history of DAoC, the minstrel AE mezz + Cure mezz, is to me a dagger in the back.

At the same time as they "nerf" what has been midgards main attribute "melee" damage.
By making for example CRUSH not being the most effective dmg type in RvR.

There are many things in store from Mythic that will continue weaken Midgard and to some extent Hibernia aswell.
But i feel Midgard gets the shortest straw.


Also i think midgard classes get far to little love.

Except for Spiritmaster and a little bit Shaman.

Spiritmaster which by the way is the least played class, get an uptune. ( what is minstrel? if not one of the most played. which mean players didnt find them underpowered and weak )
And shaman 20% add to fungus DD dmg in cave magic. well.

No "attention" is given to some clases in midgard that need loving BIG time.
making some people quit some friends of mine among them.

The class in my eyes that need attention now or at once!!
is:

Beserker

Supposedly supposed to be THE melee dmg dealer in this game. has very little except the ability to deal dmg.
And even that is to be NERFED out of them with DoubleFrost style being dissected and cut to pieces.

They have studded armour, less HP then a warrior their "Hamster" style lowers their defences greatly and makes them suffer more dmg when hit.
And whoopsie doo to sugar coat they MEGA nerf by mythic, they get throwing axe ability to be able to pull mobs with ranged.

I think this is a class considiering their NUMBNESS to attacks of all kinds a beserker is supposed to have, is in mythics world the class that is the most vulnurable to dmg.
The very least this class should have is very high MEZZ/stun immunity.

I think it is ridiculous.

Thank god for Shadowbane coming this fall, hopefully i wont be here when minstrels get AE mezz and cure mezz.
Me and my friends will be enjoying building up the world of Aeryth in Shadowbane, hopefully getting to be one of the founding guilds of a city.
And having chars with infinite possibilities, and uniqueness.
Also the BETA testing have been going on for more then a year, so we wont have to BETA test the game and pay for it.

You are all welcome.

Visit: http://www.shadowbane.com

the more the merry.

Herjulf Hornbrytare - lvl50 skald / Excalibur
lvl10 Runemaster < semi active >
lvl10 Thane <inactive >
lvl10 Shadowblade < inactive >
lvl14 friar prydwen <semi active >

 

[Aeiedil]

have you ever fought against a hamster? 2 hits with doublefrost normally kills me let alone with hamster, out of the "damage dealers", ie bm\merc\zerker, the zerker is the only one that does any good.

 

[Israfael]

I did write a big long post detailing flaws in your argument, but I really can't be bothered to post it.

Every class has advantages and disadvantages.

Stop bloody whining for gods sake. I do shit in RvR, it's rare I manage to kill something yellow / blue con solo. Personally I think some classes are a bit tough, but I don't sodding whinge like a little girl.

I put up with it because I know there's going to be some classes stronger, and weaker than myself. It's always the same.

Just one final note -

Like BOLLOCKS do minstrels have the same or near melee ability as a skald. Our melee is complete ARSE. Saying we're good in melee is like saying a zerk's hamster form looks like a bear.

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by herjulf
Not only is it a light tank with ALMOST the same melee strenght as for example skald,

Ahahahahahahahahahahahaha.
That's the most clueless statement I have ever seen. Minstrel melee is like half to one thrid of what skalds manage and that's if they don't use their damage buff.

As for having confuse, that's a big asset? News to me

Also is what way is a 5 second cast on AE mez good? You may have misread, it's not 5 sec recast insta, it's a 5 sec castable mez. That means minstrel has to stand there for 5 secs casting it, mmm nice.

TBH to say minstrel is more uber than skald is talking crap. Skald's have it at least as good if not better.

"And giving mythics most loved class in the history of DAoC"
If mythic loves minstrels why did they nerf one of their primary abilities (stealth) to crap and unlike scouts minstrels get no camaflage to even slightly reduce that nerf.

 

[herjulf]

"Like BOLLOCKS do minstrels have the same or near melee ability as a skald. Our melee is complete ARSE."

The insta stun dont help nuttin? it should help u get a pair of good ones in.
And i have fought more then one minstrel in my time and yes i must say that 3/5 of our 1vs1 i have won.
Except the stealth attack stun attack´s, those i have not survived, without mezz + fleeing.
stealth + attack is 2-3 hits before i even have drawn my weapon, + stun = 2 more.
But then again most times i have met a minstrel is when i rush them in unstealthed encounters and smack em with my mighty axe.
and all those times i lost is when i am alone with one.

U thinking your minstrel is weak, must mean u havent learnt playing it.

And to Aiedil, but then again you are a lightly armoured weee one hit killing machine arent ya.
If you survive a 1vs1 head on vs a prepared zerker i will personally burn down mythic´s office .
But i have seen more then one zerker go down in seconds when buttstabbed by your likes. As is expected.

And to dannyn but but... of some strange reason u have two weak sucky minstrels on two servers. both u have taken your time to take up to lvl43.
They must be very weak to be one of the most popular classes.
What are you smoking, Minstrels have Confusion shout and charm shout

The fact remains, they still have some attributes that makes them the most versatile.
Stealth + recastable mezz. and soon to be recastable AE mezz and cure mezz.

Skald has one INSTA target mezz with a 20sec timer and people are peeing their pants ovet that one.

I am telling you it is clear to me this, i am not writing this due to being killed by a minstrel, In fact i havent actually had the glorious luck of whacking one in the head today. i mostly got burnt to a crisp by wizards today. and i didnt write a post about them did i.

I write this cause i have quietly stood by accepting their status, and finally read 1.52 patchnotes and to me the last nail is jammed in the coffin, with recastable AE and in 1.52 and cure mezz.
quote? ---> They have created another uber versatile class on the alb side. <--- quote?


Herjulf Hornbrytare - lvl50 skald / Excalibur
lvl10 Runemaster < semi active >
lvl10 Thane <inactive >
lvl10 Shadowblade < inactive >
lvl14 friar prydwen <semi active >

 

[Olgark]

I have not been in RvrR much but from what I have seen Minstrels only attack green or grey cons if solo.
Why ?
Cause I think their melee is wank. When in a large fight the minstrel stays back mezzing and stunning people. They let the tanks do the damage.

This is just from observation of the class as I have not soloed one or played one.
But the AOE mezz that is coming out is way over the top. The resists need to be fixed first before another mezz line is brought out.

 

[old.chesnor]

Minstrels only make effective mezzers when they mezz from stealth imho. The general rule in the frontiers is if it has an instrument, kill it instantly. Most RvR groups post 1.50 will have an assassin with See Hidden, therefore Minstrels will lose the advantage they enjoy now.

Minstrels are not overpowered, their melee comes nowhere near that of a skald, and there isn't much excuse for the majority of classes to lose 1 on 1 with a Minstrel. Where Minstrels do shine is part of small highly mobile groups, but I think there role will change slightly after 1.50.

And zerkers don't need anything all of the other pure melleers need in this game, i.e. some defense against mezz. Once a zerker is up close and personal, they can slay almost anyone. Okay, you lose some defense in Hamster mode, but a crit on each hit...on each weapon ...every 8 minutes !!! And of course zerkers don't get as many HP as Warriors....DERR!

 

[-Wedge-]

Dont think you can compare the 'minstrel love' (as you put it) that mythic 'has'... To the uselessness of a melee class (any) in RvR...

Basicly, all (pure-)melee classes suffer the same problem as Zerkers... And, imho, the 'cure-mezz' isnt a good solution...

Ok, point given that we have a secondary mezzer (minstrel) thats a bit more played then your spirit-master... And that your spirit-master has no long range ae-mezz...

Oohwell... But an AE-Mezz that has a cast time of 5 seconds? Dont think it'll be used a whole lot...

As for melee, dont know much about that (havent got a high level minstrel)... But unless it changes from a lot from low-level, then minstrels are glad if they can take down a yellow mob...

Btw, I can remember reading somewhere that the minstrel mez is no longer unlimited (and also has to deal with resists in a future patch)... cant seem to find it anywhere though...

 

[Israfael]

I can't be bothered proving this monkey wrong.

Trust me, Minstrels as good as you make out.

 

[old.Prof]

Go look at the PvP servers :

TONS of skalds (one of the most popular classes on the 'dreds)
Reasonable amounts of minstrels

Both classes are potent in RvR/PvP, but generally minstrels are regarded as more "difficult" to play then skalds.

In any case Midgard has nothing to moan about on that front

 

[Danya]

Originally posted by herjulf
And to dannyn but but... of some strange reason u have two weak sucky minstrels on two servers. both u have taken your time to take up to lvl43.
They must be very weak to be one of the most popular classes.
What are you smoking, Minstrels have Confusion shout and charm shout

I didn;t say they were a weak class, they aren't, but they aren't as uber dominating as you make out. There's a difference between weak melee (which minstrels have) and a weak class.
As for confuse/charm, yes I know, but why is having confuse such a huge advantage that you should feel the need to mention it while you didn't even mention charm in your first post and that's by far the more powerful of the two abilities. Confuse is the least used skill I have, because, it's not useful in RvR and is very rarely useful in PvE. I'd rather have amnesia on a 30s timer than confuse actually.

 

[starblade]

A minstrel is as good as you play it ... and skill it of course.

Many people start a minstrel as an alt these days but I have already seen some have given it up. It is def not the easiest class to play and surely not overpowered.

Any well played bard/skald/minstrel is a dangerous foe in RvR and your arguments do not hold ground if you have played Albion and grouped with or played a minstrel.

To us, you are as much as an enervating class in RvR as our minstrels are to you

 

[belth]

ROFL @ herjulf...

 

[Tigerius]

This is just sad, I was almost going to do a breakdown of the classes and point out in which ways 2 fairly similar classes yet greatly distinct from each other and each have their pros and cons. But it would be entirely wasted :/ This is as pure whine as it gets, no interest in realm balance, class advantages and disadvantages, previous nerfs etc. It's not too uninteresting topic but you're not looking for a sensible discussion here.

Now, on the topic of whining, anyone care to do the math of Runemaster vs Wizard & Theurgist? (yes, that's the abilities of 2 classes compared to 1 correctly specced).

 

[-Light-]

Hell nerf everything and everyone WOOHOO!

 

[old.Irridym]

The imbalance between the realms is not about which class is most overpowered.

Besides the general population differenses and the midgard mentality to charge first and discuss tactics later. What hurts Midgard most is the inbalance between popular classes.

There is only one class that have all the mezzes and all the buffs and all the healing powers in Midgard, Healers. Yes there is another healing class that is marignally less shunned than spiritmasters but the number of active highlevel shamans in the realm are easily counted on one hand.
Sadly neither healing class is verry appealing to most players (because of their total lack of offensive capabilities), which hampers both PvE and RvR for midgardians.

Any RvR group without at least one healer/buffer is just free RPs to whoever finds them first.

---
Irridym lvl 50 runemaster

 

[Aeiedil]

And to Aiedil, but then again you are a lightly armoured weee one hit killing machine arent ya.
If you survive a 1vs1 head on vs a prepared zerker i will personally burn down mythic´s office .
But i have seen more then one zerker go down in seconds when buttstabbed by your likes. As is expected

I rarely 1-hit anything other than sat casters and grays if i crit i can 1-hit most sat casters if i change to my slower piercer, but most of the time i trade off the pa damage for a very fast cd, using speed 2.2 piercers instead of a SB's 5.0 2-hander, or a bladeshade\inf's 4.4 bastards.

 

[Aeiedil]

And to Aiedil, but then again you are a lightly armoured weee one hit killing machine arent ya.
If you survive a 1vs1 head on vs a prepared zerker i will personally burn down mythic´s office .
But i have seen more then one zerker go down in seconds when buttstabbed by your likes. As is expected

I rarely 1-hit anything other than sat casters and grays if i crit i can 1-hit most sat casters if i change to my slower piercer, but most of the time i trade off the pa damage for a very fast cd, using speed 2.2 piercers instead of a SB's 5.0 2-hander, or a bladeshade\inf's 4.4 bastards.

i wouldnt expect to win against a prepared stood zerk, but when i go for a sat zerk and get hamstered and down in 2 hits its a bit annoying. maybe its just because htey are a few levels higher i shall have to see, tbh the hamstersmacking was a couple of levels ago against a 50, but from what i understand they sting on anyone especially hamstered

 

[belth]

Originally posted by Aeiedil


I rarely 1-hit anything other than sat casters and grays if i crit i can 1-hit most sat casters if i change to my slower piercer, but most of the time i trade off the pa damage for a very fast cd, using speed 2.2 piercers instead of a SB's 5.0 2-hander, or a bladeshade\inf's 4.4 bastards.

Damn, get me one of those spd 4+ weapons for one-shotting Slowest 1-hander I know of is 3.9 spd and it's slash

 

[Novamir]

Healers remain the most Uber class in the game. It's the middies own stupid fault if they dont go to emain with 2 healers in their group.

Ae mez, insta ae if things go wrong, stun+ae stun and insta stun. Can you say overpowered. not to forget they wear chain, get 2 insta heals, and without using shield can look like every other 2h mid tank.

 

[horsma]

Originally posted by Novamir
Healers remain the most Uber class in the game. It's the middies own stupid fault if they dont go to emain with 2 healers in their group.

Have you any idea how many high lev healers mid has? Trust me, theres not many, atleast who will come to rvr. Many of them use they time to exp they alts. And what good ae mez does when we have lots of lowbie thanes with AE hammer who will brakes mez anyway

 

[old.chesnor]

Originally posted by Novamir
Healers remain the most Uber class in the game. It's the middies own stupid fault if they dont go to emain with 2 healers in their group.

Ae mez, insta ae if things go wrong, stun+ae stun and insta stun. Can you say overpowered. not to forget they wear chain, get 2 insta heals, and without using shield can look like every other 2h mid tank.

Probably right. Considering that CC is the uber RvR skill, any CC class is uber. Middy Healers have the best CC in the game, so they can probably be declared as the most uber class.

However, try playing one. It is boring to say the least. PvE is basically whackamole on the group mini bar, punctuated by mezzing adds. After the 4756768389395486765th pull, that kind gets really, really dull. I'd go so far as to say the Healer is the most dull class to play, although it can be fun keeping the group going and mezzing 8 adds and stuff. But mostly its just plain old dull.

In RvR, things aren't much better. Healers can't really kill much, RP are hard to come by, and the constant rezzing duties and subsequent power rests are truly annoying. This is made worse because there aren't many Healers, and even fewer Shaman, so the life of an RvR Healer is depressing.

Minstrels on the other hand, they might not be overpowered, but they are an uber class, and more importantly they are fun to play.

 

[Chenuba]

Don't nerf

Classes shouldn't be nerfed. Instead mythic should make some "love-patches" for each char.

 

[Xandax]

Originally posted by horsma

<snip> And what good ae mez does when we have lots of lowbie thanes with AE hammer who will brakes mez anyway

Bah - don't mess under my hammer

But really - I agree with Chesnor, I've tried twice to get a healer going, but I usually falls a sleep.
Healers are a valurable asset, playing them, though, is just boring.

 

[old.[BF]MaD]

"someone got owned by a instrumentwielding rogue-class"

(and he went home crying)

 

[elyand]

h0h0h0 says santa

Have you all been nice children? else there is not gifts for you

 

[old.Karamon]

I will point that Albion lacks more AE mezzers (sorcerers) this translates in 90% skirmishes lost vs. healers and bards (very common classes vs. a sorcerer uncommon class).
I suppose Mythic put a "castable" AE mezz in minstrel because low played ratio of sorcerers.

 

[zilch]

Re: Re: Great imbalance Minstrel and midgard

Originally posted by Dannyn

Also is what way is a 5 second cast on AE mez good? You may have misread, it's not 5 sec recast insta, it's a 5 sec castable mez. That means minstrel has to stand there for 5 secs casting it, mmm nice.

No no no its amazing you can cost in on spd 5 whip out your flute and play your mezz song, you can play it while moving

It makes them way over powered and 5 secs is quite along time but they can hide get close then mezz etc

 

[belth]

Re: Re: Re: Great imbalance Minstrel and midgard

Originally posted by zilch


No no no its amazing you can cost in on spd 5 whip out your flute and play your mezz song, you can play it while moving

It makes them way over powered and 5 secs is quite along time but they can hide get close then mezz etc

You should actually get your facts straight before posting bullshit.

 

[Olgark]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Great imbalance Minstrel and midgard

Originally posted by old.Belthazor


You should actually get your facts straight before posting bullshit.

Then why dont you correct him if you know it all ?