Graphics Card Qstn.

[old.Tempest]

Hi all,

Planning on getting a new system (PIII 800EB) am thinking of getting a GeForce2 GTS 64Mb - any comments on this, any better options? Are some makes better than others or not much difference?

Thanks.
Tempest

 

[old.MeddlE]

Don't get the 800EB get the 700E, then put it on the 133 bus for 931MHz!!

 

[old.Tempest]

Okie, not knowing much about the processor speeds I would have thought that 800 running on 133MHz would be a little eaiser to overclock than a 700 @100MHZ, guess not.

Would the normal cooling fan be enough for a 700E running at over 900, or is something a little better needed?

 

[old.MeddlE]

Get yourself a GlobalWin FKP32 or if you want to spend the extra get an Alpha cooler.
I have the FKP32 on my Celeron II 667 which is clocked to 1GHz and running stable at 29deg.

 

[old.TUG]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Tempest:
Hi all,

Planning on getting a new system (PIII 800EB) am thinking of getting a GeForce2 GTS 64Mb - any comments on this, any better options? Are some makes better than others or not much difference?

Thanks.
Tempest<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

If you don't know anything about overclocking and aint too bothered, get any chip ya want If you are interested, read this thread
http://msgstore.barrysworld.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/000972.html

As for the vid card, good choice. Only other BETTER option is the geforce 2 64meg ULTRA with even higher clockspeeds and even higher overclockability!!! Not cheap tho, me bets 350 quid for a 64 megger...

 

[old.Necro]

My GeForce2 64mb (non-ultra) was around £300 ISTR.

TBH, unless your building a no-expense-spared system, i'm not sure there's much gain in getting anything better than a GeForce1 DDR.

 

[old.TUG]

Aye, specially if you play @ 1024*768 or less an'all... as DDR GeForce 1's are only 135 inc. for say an OEM Creative Annihilator Pro now... nice deal overall.

 

[bodhi]

Right. This is where I differ from the quake playing nVIDIA brainwashed population. If you offered me a Geforce 2 GTS Ultra whiz bang plus (or whatever they are up to now) I would tell you to fuck off. This reaction comes from a number of reasons.

1) Having abought a TNT2u when they first came out, to say I was dissapointed would be the biggest understatement since King Harold said "I think I have something in my eye". I upgraded from a Rage Fury / V2 SLI combo. The net result (with the latest nVIDIA drivers).....40 fps less in q2 (cf SLI), 10 fps more in q3 (cf Rage Fury) and UT turned into a joke (cf both). 180 quid well spent then......12 months later SLI is back in and games are running properly again.

2) Like to admit it or not, nVIDIA have one game in mind when designing a card/drivers....quake 3. So if you play q3 then have a geforce and youll probably be happy as a pig in shit. "oooh 120 fps in q3 - but why am I getting 10 in Deus Ex" was a conversation I recently overheard at a LAN.

3) nVIDIA are the new 3dfx. 'Nuff said there me thinks.

4) (the big point) Radeon is out soon. Now before hardware "gurus" such as TUG come up with phrases like "ATi's drivers are shit" or "Some obscure q3 benchmark said geforce 2 was faster" or "It sounds like a washing powder" coonsider this. Radeon is a chip just as fast as GF2 Ultra (in games other than q3), with more features (DirectX8 compatible already, "proper" DVD decoding, VIVO, lots of fancy sounding technical stuff), and a lower price tag. Considering the reviews Ive read say ATi's drivers are good this time out of the box (no they werent on the ATi website b4 you say it TUG ) the choice (to me anyway) seems fairly straightforward, espacially considering that I never had a single problem with the Rage Fury.

Anyway sorry if that was a bit long winded, Im just getting sick to death of Geforce this Geforce that

 

[old.TUG]

I aint a guru I just know bits and bobs...

Yes the Radeon is ok, but I'd still buy a geforce... sup to the end user @ the end of the day... I dunno how u got 40fps less in q2 with your TNT2 tho compared to V2's SLI'd, but yeah, I didn't like my TNT2 either (thought I'd use the UTNT2 instead of V3, V3 was loads betta) so thats why I sold it to nosser for the same price I payed

Radeons aint that cheap though, where as you can get a 32meg GF2 for 185ish inc VAT.

 

[stu]

I've got a Geforce, and tbh I think it looks rank in Q2. Much prefer the look of a V2.

But a piece of advice: if you're going to buy a graphics card, get it from PC World.

This might sound dumb, but there's a reason. For about £10 PC World do an "extended insurance" policy, where they will replace a 'faulty' card for an equivalent price within 3 years.

Now, the gfx card market is probably currently the fastest moving in PC terms (maybe processors, but it's close). Within 6 months, it's usually out of date. So go to PC World. Buy a standard Geforce DDR - will probs set you back about £150 (haven't checked, I think that's about how much they are now?), a pretty reasonable amount for a graphics card. I've got one, and I've still got a pretty big surplus of power in it, don't feel any need to move to a GF2 at the moment.

Anyway, 4-6 months time. No doubt that GF2U will have rapidly dropped to £150, as the new nVidia 0wn0m@tic Ultra Uber PowahMastah 15 will be out. And there might be a half decent game out there that is starting to test your Geforce a little bit. So you 'accidentally' break your Geforce. You return it to the clueless idiots at PC World. You show them your receipt for £150. You go to the shelf and pick up a nice new GF2U. You take it home, plug it in. You get a new receipt, so in 4-6 months time, when that 0wn0m@tic is now a reasonable price, you do the same again. Congrats - free upgrade path.

Thx admin

 

[old.The_Stranger]

well £10 upgrade path

------------------
The Stranger

 

[old.TUG]

lol stu I was impressed by this name: "nVidia 0wn0m@tic Ultra Uber PowahMastah 15"

If NVIDIA ever do a compo like for the NV10 where they ask for ideas on new prod. names I think you'd win

I like me PC's, but I'm wid stu, I don't have ANY urge these days to upgrade, I use a DDR GF1 too... I am a bit fed up of PC's but I still read all the daily news and info etc cuz it's the only thing I'm half knowledgeable about and I may just use it in the future... so there

 

[old.~combatjoe~]

Sure you could buy it from PC world, but then you would be officially classed as a gypsy for this excessive scavving.

joe

 

[stu]

No joe, it's just yet another example of the natural order of things. The strong exploit the weak. The intelligent exploit the stupid.

 

[Chameleon]

LOL@ extended warranties! The plague of the electronics world! They sell, sell, sell these warranties to you cos they get commission out of it and make big money (£10 is the bottom of the scale) out of it. Warranties are usually voided if you fit equipment yourself rather than pc world doing it for you and also if you breath too close to the equipment. If you ever try to claim under a warranty contract you can be sure that there will be some exclusion in the small print or that your cover is restricted to parts or that you have excesses or some other shit like dat. Each to their own, but the smallest mention of the words "extended warranty" make me laugh histerically (the ppl in the office gave me a dodgy look when I read the post ). Imho, you are better of buying from a sole trader along the road and getting the OEM version with no bundled software. But that's just me

Ch@m

------------------
Go hard or Go home!

 

[old.Necro]

Since suppliers have a legal duty to supply good that are fit for the purpose they were sold for, i'm not sure what extra benefit warranties give, since they tend to expire before wear'n'tear takes its toll.

 

[Ono]

Never buy them...they reek and are for peeps who get scared easily.

I just bought a new mobile phone (that little Sony one) from the Link (Dixons)and they tried every scare tactic under the sun to get me to buy a warranty/insurance with them.

Thing is, the cover was £120 per annum!

I politely took a leaflet, told them I would study it and let them know.

/me dumps it in bin at home.

 

[Xavier]

Stu,

Sorry, your free upgrade path has apparently been squished.... spoke to a friend of mine who is a manager or summat for dixons group/pc world and he said that they had already spotted the loophole and had amended the terms&conditions to now read

'replace the card with a device of the same specification or value if the original device is no longer in manufacture'

and that bit in the warranty terms that says they can modify the T&C at any time.... well that means that your agreement now says the same...

X

 

[bodhi]

TUG update on the radeon prices. Scan are selling Radeon 64Mb DDR for 230 quid. /me cant wait for student loan to come in

 

[old.TUG]

Gah, students... Mind you, wish I was one again, want some extra cash to get a 12" tailpipe and some turbo stickers for me nova

 

[old.brock landers]

to quote chameleon:-(They sell, sell, sell these warranties to you cos they get commission out of it)
f****ng b**lox, wtf do u know.
It is illegal to be paid commision on extended warranties.
It is offered as a service to u, the valued customer.
i thank u

 

[old.rockhard]

my £0.02 worth

U be better off gettin a Asus GF2 MX V7100.
Ive got one in my sitting room puter (P3 700) and it gives me 150 fps @ 800x600x16 in Quake3 with my slightly tweaked config and overclocked the memory to 200mhz straight from the box totally stable.
My gaming rig is a Dual P3 808 with an old Geforce 1 DDR and gives me 148 fps.
At this res theres very little difference in performance between 16/32 bit colour with either cards.
Goin to try the Asus in my gaming rig when i can be arsed just out of curiosity.

U can pick up the Asus for ~£120 which is a steal compared to the GTS DDR's.

With NV20 just round the corner u would be mad to go and buy a top of the range card now as u will be dissapointed big time when u see the specs of the NV20 when its released.


Processors - I went down the EB model road for my gaming rig as i wanted the highest fsb possible for memory performance.
It paid off for me as my dual P3 733EB's are doin 147fsb (808mhz) with standard cooling and stock volts.
At this FSB with Crucial Cas 2 ram am getting ~426/~428 memory benches in sisoft sandra with hopefully more to come when MSI sort the 694D Pro's bios for its capability of higher fsb's. I reckon this has more than made up for the Via chipsets shortcomings.

Heh, u can tell i havent posted for a while. Almost got carried away

&lt;end of rant &gt;

rockhard

P.S. If u runnin Win2K then Nvidia based cards ur only choice as performance of other cards a joke.

 

[old.TUG]

Aww rockhard

you should have tried a coupla PIII 600E's @ some menkal FSB as they're cheaper

The Asus MX card is nice.. but I dunno if I'd choose that or a basic geforce 1 DDR as they're the same price really...

 

[Ono]

Wot is the diff between a GF 2MX card, a normal GF card and a GF2 GTS?

Is the MX a GF1 or GF2?

Does Brock Landers work in a Dixons?

 

[ReActor]

How much wood could a woodchuck chuck if a woodchuck could chuck wood?

 

[Chameleon]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by brock landers:
to quote chameleon:-(They sell, sell, sell these warranties to you cos they get commission out of it)
f****ng b**lox, wtf do u know.
It is illegal to be paid commision on extended warranties.
It is offered as a service to u, the valued customer.
i thank u<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Many salesmen and women are paid commission on the gross sales output, which includes product add-ons, like warranties and extras etc.
PCworld. dixons, blah, blah, blah, are in it to screw you and I out of as much as they can. Their clever advertising might suggest otherwise, but they are in it for the profit and this includes the warranties. They are not providing the service to please the customer, they are providing the service cos they can rip ppl off a second time in one purchase.
Anyway, errr ....... thought I was in the BW Consumer affairs forum Doh!

I think I'll stick to the Geforce 1 until the nv20 comes out. Then I'll go get screwed buying it from PCWorld cos no other bugger will have it instore yet They get ya every time!

[This message has been edited by Ch@meleon (edited 11 September 2000).]

 

[Ono]

Here here.

Now wtf did I do with that Snickers bar I just bought?

 

[old.brock landers]

(Many salesmen and women are paid commission on the gross sales output, which includes product add-ons, like warranties and extras etc)
posted by chameleon
As i have said elsewhere, being paid commission on extended warranties is illegal.
any commission is based on the products and not the warranties which are deducted.

As for consumers being screwed, at the end of the day its upto u where u spend ur hard earned, if its not cheap enough u go elsewhere.
You need to consider the level of service u will receive tho, think about this, if u buy a tv from a supermarket and it breaks down will they have the means to repair it?
(They most certainly will not touch it after the 1st 12 months)
This means u will have to get joe bloggs from blag-a-ex-rental to repair it.
Parts, labour, and even then he will not guarantee that it will work for longer than 3 months.
If this tv cost a grand (which they easily do)and the labour and parts needed cost £500
u would be less than chuffed.
Under an extended warranty u would have it repaired or replaced.
1 last thing to consider, if electronics manufacturers had so much faith in their products they would offer 10 year manufacturer warranties.

 

[Ono]

Tip:

Buy a TV/Hi-fi from a John Lewis store.
Not only are they 'never knowingly undersold' (ie. will price match) but they give a FREE 5 YEAR warranty on the goods.

 

[bodhi]

Footnote to my lengthier rant earlier on. I finally got pissed off with my TNT2u's inane shiteness and plugged me old Rage Fury back in. Did a benchmark in q3. TNT2u score (16-bit colour) 57.4 fps. Rage Fury (32-bit colour) 50.8fps. 190 quid for less than 7fps......


The upshot of this is that nVIDIA are gaylords, and I would like them to die slowly and horribly, preferably of mange and/or scurvy.

Id definately hold out on NV20. Hopefully by then we should have Rampage and Radeon MAXX