News Google spycar harvests data

[rynnor]

the problem Google has is, besides that they were caught, that there is no plausible excuse really. there was code running, the output was stored in a manner that was clearly thought out, etc. this bodes ill for them if the large euro courts get their wheels grinding I guess.

I dont think they were caught - they publicly admitted it (timed nicely for the weekend for less scrutiny and with handy supportive 'experts' around to say how it was nothing ).

The whole thing felt more like a planned press release.

 

[TdC]

well there is that, indeed. personally I don't think that Google would tell the world anything, especially something that dodgy, unless they were either a)caught with their hand in the cookiejar or b)about to make a shitload of money or perhaps c)someone else was about to make a shitload of money.

 

[Scouse]

Yup. Googles "admission" only came after the heat was ratcheted up really high. They're shutting stable the doors after the horse has bolted. Which is a surprisinging succesful corporate tactic!


What's of more concern to me is this: Why is rynnor so quick to trust corporate entities?

 

[rynnor]

Google have now stated that they will only destroy the illegally collected data if ordered to do so.

Thought so - shifty bastards

 

[Scouse]

Google have now stated that they will only destroy the illegally collected data if ordered to do so

So, come on the Krazeh. Explain this away.

Google have effectively admitted wanting to keep data that they've collected "mistakenly" and which you say is worthless to them. Strange that they don't want to delete it eh?

I always thought your standpoint was based on a naviety about how business actually works. You do what you can get away with. If you are to, for example, get fined for breaking the law but can still make money despite the fine then you continue to break the law - 'cause there's profit in it.

Google = theives.

 

[Krazeh]

Google have now stated that they will only destroy the illegally collected data if ordered to do so.

Thought so - shifty bastards

I take it you have a source for this?

So, come on the Krazeh. Explain this away.

Google have effectively admitted wanting to keep data that they've collected "mistakenly" and which you say is worthless to them. Strange that they don't want to delete it eh?

I always thought your standpoint was based on a naviety about how business actually works. You do what you can get away with. If you are to, for example, get fined for breaking the law but can still make money despite the fine then you continue to break the law - 'cause there's profit in it.

Google = theives.

Firstly let's confirm that Google do in fact want to keep the data, but then again noone's really required any proof so far before branding Google as a bunch of lying, double-crossing, dishonest thieves so I can see why you'd not bother waiting.

As for my "naviety" about how business works I'm under no illusions that businesses don't try to get away with whatever they can. However I'm not so paranoid about them that I immediately assume that whenever something like this happens it's something they always intended to do and that they're now involved in a big cover-up.

Yes, it may turn out that they did know all along that they were collecting this data and got caught out because they were too stupid to hide it when the German Data Protection Authorities asked to audit their data, or it could be, as Google claim, an unfortunate mistake. At the moment there's no strong evidence to be able to definitively say it's one or the other yet people seem so quick to jump on the Google = evil bandwagon.

 

[Calaen]

As for my "naviety" about how business works I'm under no illusions that businesses don't try to get away with whatever they can. However I'm not so paranoid about them that I immediately assume that whenever something like this happens it's something they always intended to do and that they're now involved in a big cover-up.

The equipment they had in the cars harvesting the data, was in no way shape or form required to do the job they were supposed to be doing. They knew
what they were doing, end of story.

 

[rynnor]

I take it you have a source for this?

Yup - BBC News - Google chief Eric Schmidt downplays wi-fi privacy row


Last line :

"We're not going to delete it unless we're ordered to," said Mr Schmidt.

 

[Krazeh]

The equipment they had in the cars harvesting the data, was in no way shape or form required to do the job they were supposed to be doing. They knew
what they were doing, end of story.

So the wifi equipment they had on the car was in no way, shape or form required for them to do the job of collecting wifi SSIDs and MAC addresses for use in their location services? Interesting. How would you suggest they went about collecting that data without wifi equipment?

Yup - BBC News - Google chief Eric Schmidt downplays wi-fi privacy row

Last line :

"We're not going to delete it unless we're ordered to," said Mr Schmidt.

Interesting but not really put in a whole lot of context is it? Is he saying that because they're wanting to keep it for their own use or is he saying it in response to some regulators already having stated they want to see the data before deletion, and others saying they are considering taking action against Google? As far as I know Google has already deleted data collected in Ireland, Denmark and Austria, and has informed the ICO that they will be deleting the information collected in the UK. But these appear to be countries who don't intend to undertake any further investigation and as such there's no need to retain the data. If on the other hand other countries are planning to undertake investigations, with the possibility that it may involve criminal aspects, then Google can hardly go around deleting data until they've been told to do so can they?

 

[rynnor]

As far as I know Google has already deleted data collected in Ireland, Denmark and Austria, and has informed the ICO that they will be deleting the information collected in the UK.

You got a source for that then?

 

[Krazeh]

You got a source for that then?

Eric Schmidt says Google should not be prosecuted for wi-fi records - Times Online

 

[Calaen]

So the wifi equipment they had on the car was in no way, shape or form required for them to do the job of collecting wifi SSIDs and MAC addresses for use in their location services? Interesting. How would you suggest they went about collecting that data without wifi equipment?

They were supposed to be recording the streets, they knew that by putting this technology in their vehicles it was going to pick up the other stuff as well.

Or are you trying to tell me that these guys thought the tech they were using would only work on things they wanted?

 

[Krazeh]

They were supposed to be recording the streets, they knew that by putting this technology in their vehicles it was going to pick up the other stuff as well.

No, the cameras were supposed to be recording the streets. The wifi equipment was supposed to be picking up broadcasted SSIDs and the associated MAC addresses of the router/access point. Google have never claimed they weren't attempting to pick up some wireless details and that they were going to use that in their location services.

Or are you trying to tell me that these guys thought the tech they were using would only work on things they wanted?

What? I've read this 3 or 4 times now and still have no idea what you're trying to say.

 

[rynnor]

No, the cameras were supposed to be recording the streets. The wifi equipment was supposed to be picking up broadcasted SSIDs and the associated MAC addresses of the router/access point. Google have never claimed they weren't attempting to pick up some wireless details and that they were going to use that in their location services.

The very first day they turned this on they would have realised they were getting a ton of extra data that wasnt SSID's and MAC addresses.

You may choose to believe the Google corporate line but this is more an act of faith than one based on logic.

 

[Calaen]

No, the cameras were supposed to be recording the streets. The wifi equipment was supposed to be picking up broadcasted SSIDs and the associated MAC addresses of the router/access point. Google have never claimed they weren't attempting to pick up some wireless details and that they were going to use that in their location services.



What? I've read this 3 or 4 times now and still have no idea what you're trying to say.

It simple really, you are trying to tell me that they added this equipment to pick up the ssid's and assocaited mac addresses. Yet they didn't think for second that it would also pick up the other information.

 

[Scouse]

Krazeh. Why just you do us all a favour and admit that you were wrong all along, eh?

 

[Krazeh]

Krazeh. Why just you do us all a favour and admit that you were wrong all along, eh?

Tell you what, how about I wait till it's proven that they were complicit in collecting all this data? I know it's so much easier to jump to conclusions without that whole pesky waiting for proof thing but I find it's a much better way to look at things.

 

[Scouse]

Tell you what, how about I wait till it's proven that they were complicit in collecting all this data?

How much more do you need?

You've had stacks in this thread which you've completely disregarded.

The fact is Krazeh, you're in denial.

 

[Krazeh]

How much more do you need?

You've had stacks in this thread which you've completely disregarded.

The fact is Krazeh, you're in denial.

Stacks of proof? Such as? There hasn't been a single bit of proof put forward so far to demonstrate that Google knew their cars were collecting this data. There's been rampant speculation and wild guesses but no actual proof or evidence.

If you can show me some actual proof or evidence that Google knew what was happening all along then i'll happily accept that. It makes no difference to me whether they did or they didn't so I've got absolutely no reason to ignore or disregard any proof.

 

[rynnor]

BBC News - Google faces German Street View data blunder deadline

Interesting twist - I wonder what Googles trying to hide now?

The German data protection mob are going to rip em a new one

 

[Tom]

Maybe its in their cloud

 

[Scouse]

Google's previous (and ongoing) form

 

[rynnor]

As far as I know Google has already deleted data collected in Ireland, Denmark and Austria, and has informed the ICO that they will be deleting the information collected in the UK.

Another twist - Google has NOT deleted the UK data after being challenged that this would prevent further prosecutions.

FT.com / Technology - UK activists warn Google on erasing data

 

[Scouse]

Yet another twist:

Google "almost certain" to be prosecuted for criminal intent over Streetview data...

 

[Ch3tan]

BBC News - Google offices raided by Korean police

Looks like the Koreans aren't as soft as we were, they aren't letting google squirm out of this one so easily.

 

[logic7]

hmmm... there must be a reason this hasn't blown up Stateside...

 

[Ctuchik]

hmmm... there must be a reason this hasn't blown up Stateside...

different laws probably.

might not be all that illegal over there.

or their lawyers in the stats are just way better at avoiding law suits...

 

[logic7]

different laws probably.

might not be all that illegal over there.

or their lawyers in the stats are just way better at avoiding law suits...

it's illegal, likely falling under our wiretapping laws.