God? Don't be silly!

[old.Tohtori]

No need to close it, i'll stop posting here.

 

[DaGaffer]

rather than this becoming a world vs. Toht rant, I am severely tempted to close this thread now.

I know that there are cultural differences in discussion, and that some have had debating training at uni and some haven't, but I'm not going to have this continue when there is no point.

Stop being such a PC girl No-one's broke the CoC.

Toht, you need to reread your arguments line by line and then evaluate them from the perspective of an outside observer; everyone is picking up that your arguments have moved over the course of the debate. Now we may all be wrong, but if everyone is seeing it, Occam's razor suggests otherwise.

I'm not going to patronise you by suggesting its a language thing or a lack of debating skills thing, because I actually think (by looking at other arguments in other threads) that you know exactly what you're doing and ambiguity is part of your arse-covering strategy. The problem is when you're being assaulted by half a dozen of us, you can't keep track of your own arguments. I don't particularly care if your take this personally; actually, that's a lie, I want you to take this personally; you're not as clever as you think you are and you're making yourself look a bit silly.

 

[MYstIC G]

Actually Teedles, it's reverted to world v Tohtori, we've been here before.

Stop being such a PC girl No-one's broke the CoC.

Stop using the CoC like a shield. I would have thought that you of all people have actually read it and therefore know that the CoC is not a set of absolutes, it is simply a guideline. If it were otherwise I think "I want you to take this personally" probably qualifies under a personal attack.

 

[DaGaffer]

Actually Teedles, it's reverted to world v Tohtori, we've been here before.Stop using the CoC like a shield. I would have thought that you of all people have actually read it and therefore know that the CoC is not a set of absolutes, it is simply a guideline. If it were otherwise I think "I want you to take this personally" probably qualifies under a personal attack.

Gamekeeper turned poacher - or something

But seriously, wanting him to take my comments personally isn't an attack, its a plea.

 

[TdC]

Stop being such a PC girl

I read that as Page 3 girl, but hey. This thread was allowed to continue and I thought to myself " as long as there is meaningful, ongoing, argument all is fine. Whatever my personal thoughts on the subject, I didn't particularly feel there was any of that left.

 

[nath]

I know it's a bit silly to keep this going, I think this thread is coming to an end but, well, I can't help myself.

Toht, the reason I said luckily most people aren't like you is because from the discussion we had I came to the conclusion that the reason you feel compelled to do good things is because of the reward it could bring to you. I find that a pretty unpleasant trait. Now if you're saying that's not the case, then I'm not quite sure what you were saying earlier. I said:

What it seems to amount to is that you don't seem to agree that one can care about the future of others if you're not going to be a part of it.

To which you said was wrong. Fine, but then how do you claim that's wrong when we compare it to your other posts on the subject:

https://forums.freddyshouse.com/general-2/235705-god-dont-silly-10.html#post3502289
https://forums.freddyshouse.com/general-2/235705-god-dont-silly-11.html#post3502344
https://forums.freddyshouse.com/general-2/235705-god-dont-silly-11.html#post3502356

These things all seem to point to that. I've tried over and over again to find out what you actually mean if I'm misinterpreting it but I've not been able to.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I said it before, yet you keep going.

Ask an impartial person to read this and give their comment on individuals without telling them who's who. Maybe you'll learn something.

Now you can stop wasting space by answering or asking, if you want to know something, PM me, but as far as this thread goes, have fun.

 

[nath]

That's at least the second time you've dismissed a request to clarify your point.The times you have expanded upon them have been vague and ambiguous. Then you get angry that myself (and presumably others) are misinterpreting your comments.

 

[Calaen]

I said it before, yet you keep going.

Ask an impartial person to read this and give their comment on individuals without telling them who's who. Maybe you'll learn something.

Now you can stop wasting space by answering or asking, if you want to know something, PM me, but as far as this thread goes, have fun.

Tbh I could be more impartial I don't give a flying f**k about it all. But your posts always seem to give people as far as your concerned the wrong impression, Nath has asked you three times to explain yourself and your response has been to tell us to read what you said again.

Nath has quoted your phrases and you have accused him of quoting only relevant bits to his argument.

Been away from the discussion a while, but this caught my eye;

Why?

Why should we care when we're doing back to the dustbin?

I can accept people caring right now how others feel, as it effects directly your life, but after you're dead, it's not going to matter now is it?

And the rest of those people, in the grand scale of things, are heading for that same dustbin, so why even try to make the effect positive, instead of having as much fun as you can?

So please tell me, how else can I view your last sentence? It implies to me that you think you can't do both, so you should choose to have fun instead, because after your dead everyone else is irrelevant?



You make massive statements

 

[old.Tohtori]

Ironic enough, calaen of all people managed to get me to explain it well enough.

Easier to do 1 on 1 i guess, here's what i replied in PM and was told it explains it, hope it does for nath and others too:


(my quote)"I can accept people caring right now how others feel, as it effects directly your life, but after you're dead, it's not going to matter now is it?

And the rest of those people, in the grand scale of things, are heading for that same dustbin, so why even try to make the effect positive, instead of having as much fun as you can?"(end quote)

The right now part is what is missed there. I did say "i can understand right now caring". Ok?

The last part should be read in regards to that.

Right.

Now, i think the part "so why even try to make the effect positive, instead of having as much fun as you can?" should be rephrased to "why even try to make the extra effort to get a positive effect from people, instead of taking things loosely".

Hope that explains it.

(Oh and editorial: i think i get it now)

 

[nath]

I don't see why the idea that life is without consequence would do anything but make us treasure and respect it all the more. If this is all we have then surely it makes sense to do our best to be decent to one another as this is all there is.

 

[Fuggz]

My thoughts on why society is as it is and also a little on religion, with some emphasis on when someone turns to religion for solace.

"Even though there are written laws there are also underlying mass population imposed laws too. By this I mean if you pack thousands of people into a small space they will either kill each other - which is really the natural way - or they will curb their base instincts and learn to live in relative harmony. Man is naturally aggressive yet now we all live within each others space. So to cope with that we have developed unwritten laws and called them such things as morals, or something like 'accepted forms of behaviour'. Should written laws break down then the unwritten laws kick in which is why we are seeing vigilantly attacks. These 'right and wrong' codes of behaviour are very much a part of us. They have been passed from parent to children for ages. Trouble is now without the strong family environment that has existed previously kids are being brought up without being 'schooled' in correct and acceptable behaviour. Their heads have been filled with death, stabbing, stealing and boozing from such media as video games, films and also in lots of cases their badly brought up parents. They are in effect 'rogues'. Too many of these and society goes down the shoot as they spread like a cancer.

I think you can see from the above that God isn't mentioned once. Sorry, I don't believe in all that.

Too keep society stable you have to 'school' kids from an early age, educationally and behaviourally. Without doing this we are all doomed. Doomed I tell you!

To turn to religion for solace is the act of a desperate person. Religion was created at times of great strife - imagine rogues and worse everywhere! Should someone turn to religion then they should be allowed to follow that path for as long as it takes for them to come to some form of conclusion. They should though be encouraged to read around so they can eventually form a more balanced view. Trouble is with a great many of these religious types they are not very well read or have misinterpreted the stuff they have read. Some are more or less brain washed. Also a great many are ill - mentally unbalanced. Once someone has gone down the religious road you have to tread warily when dealing with them. Perhaps better to leave well alone if they are relatively happy."

 

[Bugz]

I'm not going to patronise you by suggesting its a language thing or a lack of debating skills thing, because I actually think (by looking at other arguments in other threads) that you know exactly what you're doing and ambiguity is part of your arse-covering strategy. The problem is when you're being assaulted by half a dozen of us, you can't keep track of your own arguments. I don't particularly care if your take this personally; actually, that's a lie, I want you to take this personally; you're not as clever as you think you are and you're making yourself look a bit silly.

That was epic.

 

[old.Tohtori]

I don't see why the idea that life is without consequence would do anything but make us treasure and respect it all the more. If this is all we have then surely it makes sense to do our best to be decent to one another as this is all there is.

What do you mean by "life is without consequence"?

I'm assuming "afterlife consequence"?

Afterlife is the only reason to do serious extra effort, you know, go out of your way, make an extra effort, do things at your own expense all the time.

Not saying you shouldn't do nice things, or to secure future etc, just that you shouldn't push extra hard for it unless you're planning on an afterlife.

I guess i'm thinking of happiness and "fun" as a balancing act;

There's 100 points of happy and fun time.
You get 50 and your loved one gets 50.
You give frmo your happy pool to make them happy, they do the same.

Now, you shouldn't go past 10 points of happy giving because that would tip the scale.

If you do, you're doing things at your own expense. I've seen this first hand and from a neutral point of view it's f*cked up.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Oh and DaGaffer, your concrn is quite touching, but i don't care that much.

But if you suggest something like that, better do it yourself first.

 

[DaGaffer]

Oh and DaGaffer, your concrn is quite touching, but i don't care that much.

But if you suggest something like that, better do it yourself first.

I think you'll find my position has been clear and consistent all the way down the line.

And I notice in the last post you've now gone back to your original "why be nice if there's no afterlife?" line. Sure you've qualified it with some ifs, buts and maybes but the central thesis is exactly what we were critiquing and which you then tried to weasel out of by claiming it was a "hypothetical" discussion.

Afterlife is the only reason to do serious extra effort, you know, go out of your way, make an extra effort, do things at your own expense all the time.

All the qualification and backpedalling in the world doesn't alter that fact that this sentiment is wrong, and in fact rather disagreeable.

 

[old.Tohtori]

And I notice in the last post you've now gone back to your original "why be nice if there's no afterlife?" line. Sure you've qualified it with some ifs, buts and maybes but the central thesis is exactly what we were critiquing and which you then tried to weasel out of by claiming it was a "hypothetical" discussion.

All the qualification and backpedalling in the world doesn't alter that fact that this sentiment is wrong, and in fact rather disagreeable.

First, the discussion of my position IF i didn't believe in an afterlife WAS hypothetical. There's no going around it. Accept it and move on.

Second part;

Misconception of "if there's no afterlife, why be nice", which clearly isn't what i said. I didn't say "don't be nice", quite contrary.

If you take it out of context like that, sure it sounds bad. Or rather, "if you read it like you want". Read the words "all the time". Now understand them.

Are you saying that we should live our lives to please other people at the expense of ourself?

The problem with you is that you only answer what you can rip to shreds. If you can't, you take bits and pieces of a statement to do so. If you can't do that, you make shit up.

 

[Ch3tan]

Toht, for the last time, no one is making shit up. You are deliberately vague in all your posts. You seem scared to pick a stance and stick to it. You surround your arguments with variables and then go off on one if we try and get to the main point you are making. I have been following this thread and trying not to comemnt to much, but if you really beleive that everyone is wrong about your posting style, or that others are doing the same, then you are either the biggest troll in existence or simply deluded.

 

[old.Tohtori]

Toht, for the last time, no one is making shit up. You are deliberately vague in all your posts. You seem scared to pick a stance and stick to it. You surround your arguments with variables and then go off on one if we try and get to the main point you are making. I have been following this thread and trying not to comemnt to much, but if you really beleive that everyone is wrong about your posting style, or that others are doing the same, then you are either the biggest troll in existence or simply deluded.

Not getting back into that. If you want to discuss topics, then do so, but leave the personal things at the door.

 

[Ch3tan]

It's not personal, it is related to the topic. How can the topic be argued in anyway what so ever if you do not realise that every off topic argument is caused by your posting style?

 

[TdC]

ok this is going nowhere now. closed.