GISP customer support and service discussion

[old.ProstatePoker]

now this is a sensible issue which seems to have been ignored by BW although they have seen it exists


http://forums.gameon.co.uk/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2907

 

[Embattle]

TBH all GSPs suffer this it's not just BW.

 

[Deady]

Everyones entitled to a rant i guess.

 

[Skyler]

bah I'd rather the discussion took place on our forum but oh well

 

[TedTheDog]

madness

He's rightly pissed off that some dork flashbangs his own team, but then he flashbangs the team too, gets kicked, and then says he did nothing. His irc transcript seems to omit this fact, although he mentions it in his rant that he wrote afterwards.
If he'd gone into irc and asked "why?" and someone had said "because you kept flashbanging your own team, as did that other twat who i also banned" it woulda been over and done with (yes, it would, he wouldnt have liked it, but it would've been over)

Being an admin of a game is a thankless task. Ask any real-life policeman if he thinks anyone really likes him and he'll laugh till he's sick. Judging people and enforcing rules is never a popular idea with those they are imposed upon.
#bwadmins is where its at, if your into personal abuse, childish name calling and threats.

I just love the way they yack on about BW being the problem place, as if everyone else has an army of polite well trained and perfect admins at their beck and call 24/7.

As a matter of interest, I do care that he wasnt warned before being kicked. The idea is that you tell someone first I understand. "Fair Warning" basically. However, it was 2:30am and there was at least 2 people on the server acting childishly, and any admin under those circumstances is likely to just get on with it.
I'll certainly mention it to Natrat, but I have to admit to being pleased that the troublemakers were kicked at all, considering the time of night (i assume the original moron was kicked anyway), although I can understand the frustration of the 2nd troublemaker.

Oh, loved the "giving power to kids" reference in that other thread. You see what we're up against? This guy wants us to do psychological screening on all our admin applicants now. Age is no test of maturity or intelligence, so we'd have to devise a scheme to measure these to meet this guys requirements. I wonder if Help The Aged are gonna start up a GSP?

Anyway, it wasnt perfect. 2 troublemakers were kicked (a GOOD thing), but warnings werent issued first (a BAD thing).
And ranting about it on someone elses forums is also a BAD thing too. And failing to tell the truth in irc, thats also a BAD thing.

It'll never end.

 

[MYstIC G]

Actually Ted given it was 2am I believe

[02:42] <Zero-T> crispy u wouldn't have been banned for no reason, now either shut up and wait til morning or go away

was a reasonable warning given the maturity of the conversation & that after

[02:45] <Crispy> guess what...you can shove it up your ****in arse.....your supposed to be here to help out and monitor and your doing **** all

he should have been toasted anyway imho. Anyway, all this shit is old news & needs dealing with, my suggestions are:

• Remove admins ops in #bwadmins & config ^Barry^ to remove idle non voiced (i.e. non-admin) channel members after X mins of inactivity
• http://www.skunkeh.uklinux.net/cs/ - i'm not even gonna bother to explain that
• Set up a proper, up to date, easily accessable, public, set of admin rules & guidelines.

I've gotta stop checkin these forums before I disconnect for the evenin, *sigh*

 

[Embattle]

You call 3:23 evening

 

[old.D0LLySh33p]

And so Ted has spoken, and there was much rejoicing amongst the Plebs

 

[TedTheDog]

That ex-wireplay database thing. Its neat and tidy and does a job. Do you think thats what people want?

I've just spent a while reading through some of the bans, and the reasons given and some are really quite amazing:

evidence provided by Cam. retaliated to a tker. week off, come and see me and explain yourslef and i may remove the ban. *EDIT* ban removed. hopefuly he know knows not to retaliate in future. i dont expect to see your wonid here again.

is a particular favourite and a masterpiece in patronisation. But thats life and not something to put me off such a mechanism itself.
The disclaimer is good but saying:

Always trust WON IDs over names.

doesnt quite go far enough. Theres enough stolen WON ID's out there to warrant an addition to the disclaimer about that I think. Cant think of a wording right now.

Anyway if such a system combined with a good clear set of rules is whats called for, perhaps we should do that?
Comments?
I'd like to see the comments of experienced people, in particular Natrat and/or Deathace in here too. I'll make sure they see this.

Personally, I'm all for accountability and clarity and the old funster itself, Justice.

 

[old.Jas]

A full set of rules (or AUP?) for each game (although I guess a lot could be duplicated) would be great. It would make the admins lives easier as they would have a link to back up any decision they make.

The wireplay database thingie would be handy for clan leaders when recruiting.

I like the way it lists every offence for one WONID - maybe a hardline '3 strikes and your out' system could be used?

 

[Embattle]

Originally posted by TedTheDog
Anyway if such a system combined with a good clear set of rules is whats called for, perhaps we should do that?
Comments?

I would like to see this, but like you suggest I agree a set of rules is needed and also needs to be adhered too by both players and admins.

 

[Will]

I'm all for that. Increasing accountability, making everything clearer, hopfully preventing this sort of thread again.

 

[mankatron2001]

what's the address for this wireplay database?

 

[Embattle]

http://www.skunkeh.uklinux.net/cs/incidentlist.php

 

[]SK[]

Get the rules list up \o/

 

[MYstIC G]

Originally posted by TedTheDog
I've just spent a while reading through some of the bans, and the reasons given and some are really quite amazing

Well from my POV most of the reasons are a pile of crap, however the system isn't important, public accountability is (god that sounds so legal & naff). Admins on BW have been unaccountable for a long time now, nobody "controls" them in any distinct way, nobody keeps the lists up to date, hell for some games people wonder if those who are listed as admins even play anymore.

But then this has needed doing for ages.....

 

[Deady]

Im TFC Liaison and id really like a thing whereby i could easily enter details of an incident into a system that would record it.

This system should also flag up wonids that already exist in the database and are trying to be entered again. Then it would become clear that this person is a repeat offender and that a perm ban might be needed.

To stop admins banning people and then not entering it in the database, i suggest that anyone who is banned but whos wonid isnt in the database gets their ban removed.

 

[old.D0LLySh33p]

/me puts wellies on and wades in

I think it would be good to have a database to prevent admins from just banning people to put the fear of #God# into them. A database would provide a way of showing the evidence held against the player / and / or / reasons why they have been banned. There are rogue admins out there, but they aren't just restricted to BW (to say that would be to inviting ridicule!), indeed, BY (for all their money registration crapz) seem to have rogues by the server load!

A warning would be nice too before a 'kicking' were to happen, as a friend of mine on the CS servers was recently kicked with no warning nor explanation. True, he was talking crap, but that was all... just chatting a lot when he was alive. He wasn't TK'ing or cheating, just chatting to a fellow teamie when suddenly, 'kudunk', there he went. It would have been much easier if the admin has just said, 'oi! stop talking and start playing m8...' instead of /kick 'soandso'.

As mentioned previously by someone else already I think a database would be good for clans as well. This would prevent clans from recruiting cheating chumps on the whole (I mean, out of the population of CS players as pointed out, most are n00bs to computers in general - thus, how will they know how to fake or steal WON ids'?).

The only thing I could see that would be very bad is the subect of 'fake' players. It's well known knowledge that other players often 'steal' other players' names and start to do stupid things on the servers. Sure, WON id aside, it only takes a mere second to mistakenly look at a banned name and then 'assume' it was 'that' player...

/me takes wellies off... ewww.... feet pong

 

[Ch3tan]

You cant please everyone and as of yet I have meet one person who agreed with their ban.

I agree that there should have been a warning, but then I wasn't there. Flashing at spawn is something you should expect to be kicked for -retaliation is just as bad.

If someone gets banned for doing something as lame as flashing spawn (no matter the circumstances), and then never plays on Bw again its not really a big loss.

 

[Skyler]

Ted we deffo need a database like that imo, it would help us (the admins) to assist people who query their banning in irc, as so many do. Instead of us saying "ask natrat" or "wait for me to see nat and check server logs" or something along those lines.

If everyone who was banned by the plugins was automatically added to a database like that somehow, we would be able to name and shame known cheats easier, and assist people who query their bans easier. We can also add bans ourselves to the database as BY do.

Dont use the reason or bans from the BY database to rate the database idea either, BY are notorious for banning people for stupid reasons, be it jumping in a straight line which they label as (bunnyhopping, or have done to me). Sometimes they will ban you for killing them in a dodgy way (note not a tk), they do all sorts and in some cases dont really proove the reasons either.

Best stay clear from that subject, the database is a good idea and simple, and would assist us. Which is good...


Onto one other important point I would like to make, Activity of admins in IRC (CS Admins), is appalling, we have 20+ CS Admins, yet I only see about 5 ever answering peoples queries about a suspect cheat or whatever... This isnt on, I give up spare time to help people on the CS Servers and I do my job... As long as I'm not doing anything else I will assist people, and if I am unavailable and I see their request I will still tell them that I cant help rather than just idling and leaving no response. That annoys people so much, they do as the topic says, request an admin and none are there, no one even responds. It isnt on, I want admins to be removed who dont pull their weight. Many people arent even being answered in #bwadmins anymore with CS Admin requests, I come back from being afk and I see several requests unanswered, usually answered by a TFC Admin who apologises on behalf of the CS Admins. Needs to be sorted as well as a database.

Also someone said to me in IRC about admins getting free access to BW when P2P comes in ?

Obviously thats speculation and hopeful and a rumour, but I think it would be a good idea, that way the admins would be under some pressure to do their jobs, and if they didnt they would loose their 'free account'. Might work?

 

[Tom]

I think everyone should remember that these servers are FREE OF CHARGE!

BW can refuse access to anybody they like, as they have no contract with you.

As for warnings, well, temporary bans to stop players doing foolish things (its been done to me yarns ago, for suggesting an end-of-map tk round ) don't really need warnings imo. The ban is warning enough.

Tom

PS Anyway the new startrek series starts tonight on Sky1 so you won't see me for dust (no pun intended).

 

[Skyler]

Also, the auto adding cheats caught with plugins to the database, will prevent potential 'faking' of the logs from the plugins, which is possible to humiliate big named players.

If the bans were added auto from the anti cheat and labelled auto as plugin bans then people could feel better than the bans are legit and not potentially faked....

;p

Not sure if its possible to have auto update in such a way though, may have to rely on someone to add them himself, in which case I would want someone impartial

 

[old.D0LLySh33p]

wibble?