Getting a new pc....help.

[~Mobius~]

Hey I'm getting a new pc soon and I'm not much of a boffin so I dont know what bits 'n' bobs to get. I'll be using it only for DaoC/WoW etc when they come out.

What parts should I be looking out for to make the most of games? Like latest gfx card etc? Bear in mind I wont be building my own so It'll be from a shop.

Ta in advance!

EDIT : Forgot to add I've got about £1000 budget.

 

[old.mattshanes]

Pentium 4 3.2ghz
1024 ddr ram
Geforce fx5900 ultra(creative)
100gb hardrive
19 inch monitor(sony or phillips are good)
Creative Audigy 2 soundcard.

If you want a very good system but will cost a fair amount.

 

[cHodAX]

I have to laugh at ol fattshanes, he will waste your hard earned money in no time at all Here is a comparable system at a much lower price than an Intel machine and more feature rich. Oh and don't buy an nividia card if you want low noise, even the new ones sound like a hairdryer running inside your case.


AMD AthlonXP 3000
ATI Radeon 9800 Pro 128Mb DDR AGP
Nividia nforce2 motherboard
1gb 333mhz ddr memory
19inch monitor BUT it must do 1600x1200x75hz or it is junk

An equivelent Intel machine is going to cost you at least £100 more.

 

[old.mattshanes]

ATI cards suck

Geforce fx5900 ultra is quiet from what people have told me and it's extremely good though the 5800 model is noisy.

 

[kinag]

ATI got some really good cards, I would get the one mentioned above tbh, I got GeForce 4 but I would like that ATI card..

 

[Damon_D]

Nvidia >>>> ATI , both card and drivers

 

[Easy]

Originally posted by old.mattshanes
ATI cards suck

Pfft my ATI RAGE FURY MAXX 64MB 0wnz j00!

 

[agreiloth]

ATI >>>> Nvidia , both cards and drivers

 

[Solid]

I wouldnt buy AMD now, they are milking their naming convention like shit, their 3GH chip BARELY breaks 2K clock speed and still doesnt beat the 3gh intel varient.

AMD alo have cooling problems, aka their chips run hot, much hotter han intel equivalents.

The northwood core is a sweet one, i would pick one of them tbh.

Intel Pentium 4 2.6 GHz Socket478 512kb cache (800Mhz FSB) £139.00 exc VAT, £163.33 inc VAT

 

[old.moriath]

hmm i gather as your not a boffin your not building your own so going for a pre built

Go for as much ram as you can but at least 512mb
fastest processor you can but at least 2400 amd or 2.6 ghz p4

and make sure the gfx card is gf4 ti 4800 or better not an MX
geforce fx 5600 or better not 5200
ATI donno the cards see above recommenations


This will give you a machine that is more than capable for DAOC and WoW

mobo etc well unless your being really picky it dont matter and in pre built you generally dont get the choice

but you should be able to get all that for under a grand and at least a 19 inch monitor although 17 will do at a push ..

Think the guys above just listed their dream machines and didnt take any notice of the budget

sound audigy 1 or 2 are industry standard almost and a good buy

 

[liste]

you can buy my game boy REAL cheap Mobi!

 

[chretien]

I wouldnt buy AMD now, they are milking their naming convention like shit, their 3GH chip BARELY breaks 2K clock speed and still doesnt beat the 3gh intel varient.

Clock speed means nothing but Intel have convinced a generation of PC salesmen (and by proxy a generation of PC buyers) that GHz are the be all and end all of pc performance. just look at the massive performance difference between Apple chips and PC chips A G5 Mac will run rings around a top spec PC and yet top Apple chips only run at about 1.4GHz.
I'd go with AMD every time, faster cheaper, more efficient. And they're not Intel.

 

[hercules-df]

Nvidia turned into the new ATI with all the shit geforces and the total bork up of the FX Cards and drivers, ATI became good driver wise and hardware wise in the last year, a good performing cheap ati card is that 9500 thing, will run daoc piss easy and everything else, or just get a 9800 pro and enjoy the glory

 

[Roalith]

http://www.alienware.co.uk/system_pages/area-51.aspx

Clickety click.

Intel Pentium 4 2.6GHz 800MHz FSB
512MB DDR SDRAM PC-3200
120GB Western Digital ATA 8MB Cache
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 128MB
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2

Price: £1,137.00

Fully built system. Not too bad, and comes with the i875 (I think it is) motherboard for obscene memory datarate.

 

[Damon_D]

Originally posted by Roalith
http://www.alienware.co.uk/system_pages/area-51.aspx

Clickety click.

Intel Pentium 4 2.6GHz 800MHz FSB
512MB DDR SDRAM PC-3200
120GB Western Digital ATA 8MB Cache
NVIDIA GeForce FX 5200 Ultra 128MB
Creative Sound Blaster Audigy 2

Price: £1,137.00

Fully built system. Not too bad, and comes with the i875 (I think it is) motherboard for obscene memory datarate.

/slap's the Geforce 5200 so hard it keel's over

dont get that card its poo

 

[old.Nim]

So I also need a new computer when I get back to the UK - can anyone who's saying what specs can be got for 1000 quid also say from where so I can look into it?

Thank you!

 

[chretien]

When I build PCs (I do about ten-12 a year) I get all my stuff from Aria . As well as components they also do complete systems and this one is pretty good. Comes with XP installed and all you need is a monitor to make it go. For a grand you could build a killer system from components.

Oh yeah and another reason to go AMD rather than Intel: Nforce mobos>>>>>intel boards.

 

[heilel]

Regarding some of the points made here about ATI vs Nvidia and AMD vs Intel.


First of all, if you compare the two top of the line ATi vs Nvidia cards, being the Radeon 9800 pro vs the Geoforce fx 5900 ultra.
There really is not a lot of difference between the two.
The Geoforce is slightly faster, but when anti aliasing is switched on , the ATI graphically performs slightly better.
The latest Geoforce is not loud at all and does not have heating issues any worse than the RAdeon 9800.
But it's true that any of the FX geoforces before the 5900 Ultra are pretty loud and run hot, but keep in mind the Radeons run hot as well, all the latest cards are running at higher temperatures, and and the latest processors as well, whether it's AMD OR Intel.

Personally, I'd probably get the Radeon atm, as it's cheaper, but that is the deciding factor, not the speed/quality, as there is very little difference here.
Also the ATI driver are fine now, that is old news regarding radeon drivers and no longer applicable.

After saying that, if you want to get a decent card that is cheap, I'd buy a Geoforce ti4200 128mb ram, the only downside is that it is not DirectX 9 compatible, but they're so cheap you could just get the ti4200 and upgrade it in 6-8 months time when the DX9 cards get cheaper.

Regarding AMD vs Intel.
AMDs are cheaper, which is nice, and of course the Intels are faster, but the architecture for the AMD XP (especially Bartons ) is superior for gaming, also, the AMDs are better for overclocking.
That does mean however, that you'll need to buy a decent cooler for the AMD if you want to overclock, which adds to the cost.
Bottom line, if you're building your own PC and you're confident with PCs enough to overclock , buy an AMD, if you're gonna buy a stock PC ready built, buy an Intel.

[edit]
And if you DO get an AMD, as posted earlier, get an Nforce chipset motherboard, they are by far better than the other chipsets.

I recently upgraded and bought an AMD Barton 2500 (1833 mhz), once I get a decent cooler/fan, I'll be overclocking it from 1833 mhz to around 2200mhz, which it will do easily.
I still have my Geoforce 4 ti4200 128 mbram, this is a great card and I'll be keeping it until around January next year sometime, until the DX9 cards get cheaper.


If you don't believe me, goto the following sites and read up on what I said. These are reputable sites.

www.anandtech.com
www.arstechnica.com
and to a lesser degree www.tomshardware.com

 

[agreiloth]

Originally posted by heilel

Regarding AMD vs Intel.
AMDs are cheaper, which is nice, and of course the Intels are faster, but the architecture for the AMX XP (especially Bartons ) is superior for gaming, also, the AMDs are better for overclocking.
That does mean however, that you'll need to buy a decent cooler for the AMD if you want to overclock, which adds to the cost.
Bottom line, if you're building your own PC and you're confident with PCs enough to overclock , buy an AMD, if you're gonna buy a stock PC ready built, buy an Intel.

That's actually not true any more the new HT enabled Northwood cores (Intel) are cheaper than the Barton's and they are a hell of alot faster, check any review comparisions of Barton vs. Northwood(HT/800FSB).

And the overclocking side doesn't hold true anymore either , the P4 HT is the best overclock right now, you can over clock a 2.8 GHz P4 to 3.2 with stock cooling, AMD Barton's runs waay to hot if you buy the faster variants, that means you have to by extra cooling = more noise, unless you go for water cooling.

Here's a quick price comparison:
Barton XP 2800+ (333FSB) (120£)
Intel P4 Northwood 2.4 (800FSB) (123.5£)

And as some poster noted the AMD speed markings are getting way off, since the P4 2.4 beats the AMD 2800+ in allmost all tests (yes games too).

And since both platmorms use DDR ram, there's no price difference there.

I usually buy AMD, but right now AMD has nothing to offer over intel, and I would go for intel myself until AMD releases their new core.

 

[heilel]

Originally posted by agreiloth
That's actually not true any more the new HT enabled Northwood cores (Intel) are cheaper than the Barton's and they are a hell of alot faster, check any review comparisions of Barton vs. Northwood(HT/800FSB).

I'm not saying I don't believe you, but I'd like to see evidence for this claim, as I have recently been reading a lot about the various processors, admittedly, I've not even considered buying an AMD2800, I went for an AMD 2500 (Barton), which to some degree pound for pound, overclocks better than a 2800. (Barton)
However, most of the reputable sites show that the AMD Bartons perform better then their Intel counterparts overclockwise and Performance wise.
After saying that, I'd be interested on seeing some new Price/performance comparisons from you.
Either way, I'll have a look myself to confirm what you say, as, based on what you're say ATM, I can't say you're wrong or right.

And the overclocking side doesn't hold true anymore either , the P4 HT is the best overclock right now, you can over clock a 2.8 GHz P4 to 3.2 with stock cooling, AMD Barton's runs waay to hot if you buy the faster variants, that means you have to by extra cooling = more noise, unless you go for water cooling.

Bartons do not have the same heating issues that the earlier XPs/thoroughbreds had.
And regarding Cooling/noise, that really comes down to what type/brand of cooler/fan you use, many of the better brands of Cooler/fans combos run quiet enough, you just need to know which one to buy.

Here's a quick price comparison:
Barton XP 2800+ (333FSB) (120£)
Intel P4 Northwood 2.4 (800FSB) (123.5£)
And as some poster noted the AMD speed markings are getting way off, since the P4 2.4 beats the AMD 2800+ in allmost all tests (yes games too).

As posted earlier, I personally wouldn't buy an AMD 2800 anyway, the 2500 performs almost as well, performance and overclocking wise and it's a hell of a lot cheaper.
Here's a chart showing the various settings for the AMD processors, note the AMD Barton 2500, note the FSB is set to the same level as the 2800? it's just the multiplier is lower.
With a decent cooling solution, you can do very well with the Barton 2500 for a LOT less money.
Other things to consider is the cost of a mobo that will support this new P4HT processor. You can get very good mobos for the Bartons for a small cost.

PR MHz FSB Multiplier Core
1200 XP/MP 1200 133 9 Palomino
1500+ XP/MP 1333 133 10,0 Palomino
1600+ XP/MP 1400 133 10,5 Palomino
1700+ XP/MP 1467 133 11,0 Palomino/T-Bred
1800+ XP/MP 1533 133 11,5 Palomino/T-Bred
1900+ XP/MP 1600 133 12,0 Palomino/T-Bred
2000+ XP/MP 1667 133 12,5 Palomino/T-Bred
2100+ XP/MP 1733 133 13,0 Palomino/T-Bred
2200+ XP/MP 1800 133 13,5 T-Bred
2400+ XP/MP 2000 133 15,0 T-Bred
2500+ XP 1833 167 11,0 Barton
2600+ XP/MP 2133 133 16,0 T-Bred
2600+ XP 2083 167 12,5 T-Bred
2700+ XP 2167 167 13,0 T-Bred
2800+ XP 2250 167 13,5 T-Bred
2800+ XP 2083 167 12,5 Barton
2800+ MP 2133 133 16,0 Barton
3000+ XP 2167 167 13,0 Barton
3200+ XP 2200 200 11,0 Barton

And since both platmorms use DDR ram, there's no price difference there.

Agreed here.

 

[heilel]

Just had a scan around various sites.
Regarding the P4 HT vs Barton.

If you compare the Barton 2500 to the 2.4 ghz P4 HT.
I have noted the following.

The Barton 2500 is easily overclockable to around 2200mhz without water cooling, but using a decent Cooler/fan (and there are such cooling solutions which are NOT loud.

At this point, the difference between the two is minimal.

Now, other things to consider,
The cost of the Barton 2500 vs the P4 HT 2.4 ghz, is less than half the price.

The cost of a mobo that will support all the features of the P4 HT 2.4 ghz processors is also quite steep compared to getting a decent mobo that will support the Barton 2500.

So, while you MIGHT get a SMALL difference in performance , you can add a lot of money to the P4 HT solution, which you will almost certainly not notice anyway in gaming.

However, if money is not an issue, getting the latest and greatest P4HT, for example p4 HT 3.2 ghz etc etc, will clearly blow AMD out of the water, but for many times more in the cost.

 

[heilel]

To make my point clearer price wise I have to quote in Danish Kroner (as I live in Denmark), but the relative price differences are the same anyway.

Pentium4 Northwood-C 2.4GHz Socket 478 / 512KB / FSB 800MHz 1.569 kr.

Athlon Barton XP 2500+ (1833MHz) Socket A / FSB 333MHz 680 kr.

The Barton 2500 is less than ½ the price and as I said, since you can overclock it easily with an aircooling solution (for an extra cost of about 300 dkr) to 2200mhz (and higher with water cooling (more expensive probably around 600-700 dkr)), I've seen the 2500 Oc'ed to around 2500 mhz this way) you're paying a big difference in price for what I have read to be very little diffrence in performance with these two specific specs.


BTW, I do like to hear what you have to say though, as technology changes so fast, so it's not like my opinion can't be changed, actually, my previous pc had an Intel Pentium 3 750E processor, which I was very happy with..

 

[Ardrias_Mid]

As for noise/cooling with AMD: Get a Alpha heatsink and a 80mm, 12dbA, fan from Papst ;/

And noisy GF FX.... Well, I bought a Gainward GF FX 5600 for my kid brother, and it's totally silent.

 

[~Mobius~]

I knew this thread would get hi tech. :<

 

[heilel]

Originally posted by Ardrias_Mid
As for noise/cooling with AMD: Get a Alpha heatsink and a 80mm, 12dbA, fan from Papst ;/

Agreed, there are plenty of qiuiet cooling solutions.

And noisy GF FX.... Well, I bought a Gainward GF FX 5600 for my kid brother, and it's totally silent.

I guess this comes down to brand quality as well, not all Geoforces are Equal even at specific model level.

Gainward make very nice Video cards, but by and large the Geoforce 5200-5600 has been considered much of a disappointment Noise and performance wise.

 

[heilel]

Originally posted by mobiusmid
I knew this thread would get hi tech. :<

To put it simply, at the end of the day, since you're gonna buy a ready made PC and you don't sound like you're interested in overclocking or even opening up your PC.
I'd recommend getting an Intel processor.

If you try to make a decision based on the "Star Trek style techno babble" in here, you'll just get confused...

 

[heilel]

Video card wise, just get a Geoforce ti4200 128 mbram card.
It's a great performer and is dirt cheap.
It won't support DX9, but so what? There's no games out there that use DX9 ATM, and even tho the new expansion for DAoC uses DX9 , that isn't scheduled for release until September/October, which means it won't be out until around December I bet, by then the DX9 cards will be a lot cheaper and you can buy one then.

A nice no frills Geoforce 4 ti 4200 card is the
Palit Microsystems, Daytona GeForce4 Ti4200 TV-Out AGP / 128MB DDR / 2048x1536 / GeForce4 TI4200 799 kr

It performs really well and I have one, I also have overclocked it to the same speed as a ti4400 and it performs great and that's with no added cooling.

 

[Demolay]

New Hyper Threading Intel chips clock at double their speed in XP Pro brumbrum

 

[heilel]

Originally posted by Demolay
New Hyper Threading Intel chips clock at double their speed in XP Pro brumbrum

It does not get 2 times the speed .
Hyperthreading is all well and good in theory, in practice, it's another story.

http://www.computerworld.com/hardwaretopics/hardware/story/0,10801,78401,00.html

In a presentation, AMD cited benchmarks that showed the 3000+ processor provided a higher level of performance than Intel's 3.06-GHz Pentium 4 processor, which features a technology known as hyperthreading. Those benchmarks also showed that Intel's hyperthreading technology actually caused a 4% decrease in performance compared with a 3.06-GHz processor with hyperthreading turned off. Hyperthreading allows an operating system or application to believe a system has a second processor in addition to the actual chip, causing it to send more instructions to the processor.

 

[old.Normengast]

Don't know if the link has been mentioned yet, cba to run through this whole thread, but if you're not sure about what hardware piece to buy, you can always check this site, it's very good.