Help Get the ptrol prices down!!

[Haggus]

Petition to: Reduce Fuel duty to bring fuel prices back to an acceptable level.

gotta get the price down!!!! You just gotta do it captain. You gotta find the powerrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!! (Ace ventura wanna be)

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

If you'll lower the fuel duty, taxes will rise. Money gotta come from somewhere, and can't have one without the other.
A strech of highway, 1km long, costs between €100.000 and €250.000 to maintain. Anually.
That maintenance (amongst others) is paid by the fuel duty.
It's no use petitioning for lower fuel prices, unless ofcourse, you don't mind driving through potholes, and having to pay a higher maintenance fee on your car.

 

[Haggus]

Britain was fine a few years ago why's it suddenly changed? You can't say its the road maintence.

 

[Himse]

Lol, i pay all that money in fuel tax.

Yet the roads in the UK are dog shit.

 

[Sparx]

Britain was fine a few years ago why's it suddenly changed? You can't say its the road maintence.

Because its not the tax of the fuel thats pushing the price up, its the actual cost of the fuel thats increased

 

[Himse]

Because its not the tax of the fuel thats pushing the price up, its the actual cost of the fuel thats increased

Yes it is to an extent, but that doesnt mean to say the government aren't shoving shit loads of tax on it aswell :|

 

[Sparx]

1. Fuel Price

Petrol is 17.11 pence per litre more expensive than at the last Budget, diesel 20.18 pence.

A 2.35 pence-per-litre increase in fuel duty and VAT

So you see it is the price thats made the massive increase and not the tax itself. Granted the government should do something to help like cut the tax, but as someone stated this money will just come from somewhere else.

Public Affairs : AA budget brief 2008 - The AA

 

[Himse]

they should just cut the tax on petrol by half.

It would be more reasonable then.

I swear everything in this country is taxed tho

Car Tax, Income Tax, Fuel Tax, Council Tax.

sigh the list goes on.

 

[GReaper]

Tax tax! We aren't taxed enough!

 

[Sparx]

they should just cut the tax on petrol by half.

It would be more reasonable then.

Like others have said including myself, not sure if you missed it, but where will that money come from then that you've just cut out?

It will be taxed onto somewhere else and we will be no better off

 

[Sharma]

Maybe the government should think about what they're throwing their money at instead of just raising taxes to fuel it?

Our government seems to think that looking at what they're spending our money on is an insane idea obviously.

 

[Himse]

Maybe the government should think about what they're throwing their money at instead of just raising taxes to fuel it?

Our government seems to think that looking at what they're spending our money on is an insane idea obviously.

Thank you.

Some of the things our money goes into is fucking bad lol.

They just pay for crack dealers and general scumbags to be housed.

For all these stupid groups people set up just to get government funding.

etcetc.

Imo we shouldn't have a whole new olympic park, we should have just used exisiting stadiums and stuff.

 

[Jeremiah]

If the fuel price goes up, doesn't the income from the tax go up too?

So if they reduced the tax, sure they'd be making less money from it, but they'd still be making the same as, say, 6 months ago? Its a poor excuse for them to say "where would this extra money come from" as we could just reply "what have you been spending this extra tax income on so far?"

 

[UndyingAngel]

If you'll lower the fuel duty, taxes will rise. Money gotta come from somewhere, and can't have one without the other.
A strech of highway, 1km long, costs between €100.000 and €250.000 to maintain. Anually.
That maintenance (amongst others) is paid by the fuel duty.
It's no use petitioning for lower fuel prices, unless ofcourse, you don't mind driving through potholes, and having to pay a higher maintenance fee on your car.

that bull in the UK, I Pay ROAD tax for that

Petrol prices are a joke atm, and are going to carry on going up.

 

[Bugz]

If the fuel price goes up, doesn't the income from the tax go up too?

So if they reduced the tax, sure they'd be making less money from it, but they'd still be making the same as, say, 6 months ago? Its a poor excuse for them to say "where would this extra money come from" as we could just reply "what have you been spending this extra tax income on so far?"

If anything the income does the opposite or stays roughly about the same.

Laffer curve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Price elasticity of demand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[Chronictank]

erm isnt road tax (which incidently also rises consistently) for road maintenance?

 

[Gorbachioo]

Thats a crap idea.

The only way for fuel prices to go from where is up and instead of putting a band aid on the problem the british goverment should start investing the money they get from the taxes on mass transportation or alternative energy sources.

The age of cheap energy is over. Atleast as long as that energy source is oil.

 

[Jeremiah]

If anything the income does the opposite or stays roughly about the same.

Laffer curve - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Price elasticity of demand - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to show here. I had a quick look at the Laffer curve page and I think I caught the gist of what it was saying. Is it not about balancing taxation with demand to earn the optimum income? Like finding the sweet spot between under-taxation and over-taxation?

I dont think the UK government follows this for fuel tax. I've yet to see any mention of a tax cut which would balance the demand and hence earn them the optimum income =) Our choices are so limited, we can't go else where to pay less tax Well, aside from abandoning the car altogether (which I'm considering!) but that leaves you relying on public transport (arggh!!!) Or we could become a nation of hitch-hikers!

 

[Ingafgrinn Macabre]

that bull in the UK, I Pay ROAD tax for that

Petrol prices are a joke atm, and are going to carry on going up.

Roadway length in the uk: 388,008 km (of which 3,520 km expressways)
Couldn't find the number of cars in the UK, but let's say 1 on 4 people, then it would be 15 million cars.
What do you pay annually on road tax? £750.- ?
say €1000.-
That would mean a tax income of 15 billion.

3520 km * 250,000 = 880 million.
Leaves 14.1 billion for 384488 km is €36,672.- per kilometer for the rest of the roads.

Don't think you're gonna cut it with road tax alone.

 

[Bugz]

I'm not entirely sure what you are trying to show here. I had a quick look at the Laffer curve page and I think I caught the gist of what it was saying. Is it not about balancing taxation with demand to earn the optimum income? Like finding the sweet spot between under-taxation and over-taxation?

I dont think the UK government follows this for fuel tax. I've yet to see any mention of a tax cut which would balance the demand and hence earn them the optimum income =) Our choices are so limited, we can't go else where to pay less tax Well, aside from abandoning the car altogether (which I'm considering!) but that leaves you relying on public transport (arggh!!!) Or we could become a nation of hitch-hikers!

The idea behind the Laffer curve is that you need to find the sweet spot in taxation - yes. But the problem is that we are currently at the peak of the laffer curve (governments do a lot of research in order to determine this peak - it varies from country to country, based on the amount of public services yada yada yada). Any more taxation will not necessairily increase income then, but may lead to a decrease in income, as people dodge the tax, move elsewhere or simply do not have cars.

The idea behind the price elasticity of demand is somewhat the same.

But what is interesting is that the price elasticity of demand for petrol is likely to be very price elastic, meaning that assuming no outside interference, change in price does not affect change in demand so much. But if we add in the fact government initiatives are swerving us away from over-petrol use, through car-sharing, public transport and so on, they are in effect decreasing their own income.

What does this mean? I couldn't say explicitly, but it is the fact that the government does not JUST increase taxes for it's own gain, and there is not a guaranteed increase in income.

P.S - Sorry for getting economical - I have my economics exam in two days - so any revision is good revision

P.P.S - You are right - the government probably does not follow the laffer curve for taxation of petrol BUT the theory still should apply. It is part of the reason why (in my opinion) many tax breaks/increases have been revolted.

 

[Cadelin]

Don't think you're gonna cut it with road tax alone.

You are talking bollocks.

From the National Audit Office. From the National Audit Office.

The Highways Agency was created in 1994 to take over functions previously held by the Department of Transport to manage, maintain and improve the network. The network consists of most of the motorways in England, together with the most important A-roads. In 2001-02, the route length was around 9,500 kilometres, and is the largest single government asset, currently valued at over £60 billion. The Agency directly manages almost all of the network – 600 kilometres are managed by contractors under design, build, finance and operate contracts. The Agency spent over £56,000 per kilometre on maintaining the roads that it directly manages, in 2001-02. The network is expected to reduce to 6,500 kilometres by 2005-06 as a result of planned transfer of some A-roads to local authority control.

Now this is just for the major roads but your numbers are way off. They spend around £56 000 per km which is under a quarter of what you quoted. Local roads are maintained by the local council who use council tax to maintain roads.

 

[Ezteq]

/signed

what good it will do i dont know but its a joke how much we pay for fuel in this country...well tbh its a joke how much we pay for most things in this country.

 

[Sharma]

Meh.

Can't wait for the oil companies to go bust so we can finally use Zero Point energy.

 

[Imgormiel]

they should just cut the tax on petrol by half.

It would be more reasonable then.

I swear everything in this country is taxed tho

Car Tax, Income Tax, Fuel Tax, Council Tax.

sigh the list goes on.

We haven't taxed your breath.......yet!

 

[Imgormiel]

Meh.

Can't wait for the oil companies to go bust so we can finally use Zero Point energy.

But how will they make your Parmo then?

 

[tierk]

So you see it is the price thats made the massive increase and not the tax itself......

Wrong.......

From 2007-10-01 the main road fuel (petrol and diesel) duty rate in the UK is GBP£0.5035 per litre. The rate for biodiesel and bioethanol is £0.3035. Value Added Tax (VAT), currently at 17.5%, is also charged on the price of the fuel and on the duty. At a pump price of 128.8p/litre (typical for diesel as at May 2008), this would put the combined tax at 69.53p/litre, or approximately USD$5.20 per US gallon. Thus without tax, the retail price would be 59.26p per litre, making a combined tax rate of 117%.......

117% tax not massive enough?

I know that the price of oil has increased greatly in the last couple of years but this is mostly due to speculation combined with a big loss in value of the $ (US Dollar) - which is the currency that oil is traded in.

The amount of tax that they charge in the UK on Petrol is a travesty from a users point of view but on the other hand its a great way to get people out of their cars and onto public transport, just a shame that public transport is such a pile of shit.

As someone else pointed out earliar in the thread, they should spent the tax they get from road and fuel tax on actually improving public transport. If they did this the amounts of money raised from this source is more then enough to give the UK the best public transport in the world.

 

[Sparx]

Petrol is 17.11 pence per litre more expensive than at the last Budget, diesel 20.18 pence.

This means petrol for a typical family with two cars is costing £36.67 more per month than at the time of the 2007 Budget 1. The price of UK road fuel has risen 60 per cent in the past 10 years.
2. Fuel duty

A 2.35 pence-per-litre increase in fuel duty and VAT will add £1.18 to the cost of filling the typical 50-litre fuel tank.

To me that looks like its the actual cost of fuel thats increasing more than the tax

 

[Gahn]

Investments in Gas to Oil Technologies and Hybrid Hydrogen is the only weight usable to force em to drop the Prices -.-

 

[Sharma]

But how will they make your Parmo then?

Same way?

 

[Ctuchik]

Britain was fine a few years ago why's it suddenly changed? You can't say its the road maintence.

because Bush fucked up and made the arabic countries to want more for their oil. and he's to stubborn to use the oil he can get in his own country.