Gay Marriage

[rynnor]

I'm happy for everyone to be able to marry but the draft law is a mess - personally I would have reformed the whole thing by allowing everyone to marry wherever they want as long as there's an official witness to record it.

Then the religious folk can have it in a church and the rest of us can have it wherever we choose.

Could then scrap existing marriage law (which is full of archaic crap), scrap civil partnerships and everyone who had one of these two is now married - now thats equality.

Edit - ending up with 3 types of marriage (perhaps 4) is just stupid and a poor compromise.

 

[Raven]

What two consenting adults do is up to them. Fuck the church, obviously they are allowed an opinion but religious nutjobbery should not be considered when making law.

I didn't get married in a church or have any mention of religion in any part of it. I am still married, it just so happens my partner is of the opposite sex. I don't think two men or women getting married would effect my marriage in any way shape or form. People who think it would do need to see a marriage councillor.

 

[rynnor]

Should we allow incestuous marriages?

Apart from religious mumbo jumbo theres no real basis to be against it - in terms of genetic viability there are far worse un-related couples for genetic issues?

 

[Access Denied]

Should we allow incestuous marriages?

Apart from religious mumbo jumbo theres no real basis to be against it - in terms of genetic viability there are far worse un-related couples for genetic issues?

That made me think about the impact religious "Laws" have on state laws, particularly in the UK. Incestuous relationships are only illegal because the Catholic church says it's a mortal sin. Makes me wonder if it's illegal in France where they are vehement about separating church and state.

 

[Scouse]

The church said it was a mortal sin because even in the dark ages of pre-science it was obvious that fucking your sister was much more likely to give you fugly deformed children than fucking people un-related to you - so it's one of the good religious hangovers that we've inherited.

Yes, you could find worse matches out there but the chances of a seel being born are orders of magnitude higher if you keep it in the family.

 

[DaGaffer]

Religious prohibitions on incest are another good example of "religion as a social control mechanism"; but that doesn't mean its incorrect; just like things like kosher food rules make total sense if you live in a hot climate without refrigeration. Not everything priests did back then was wrong.

At this point I also feel duty bound to say; "rynnor fancies his sister, ner ner, ner ner ner" etc.

 

[Fweddy]

My understand is that incest on that level has always been pretty rare. We've evolved to not be attracted to people we grow up with to prevent that sort of fugliness. The church banned incest with cousins and the like (which is reasonably safe, fugliness wise) to prevent rich people keeping their riches in the family.

 

[Wij]

Pah. You'd all think different if you had a hot sister!

 

[soze]

Gay Civil Partnerships should be legal everywhere. The Church should not be forced to allow Gay Marriage. If the religion is against it do not get married there. Get a civil partnership.

 

[Aoami]

I don't like all this gays getting married in church business. Not because I have a problem with gay marriage, but because I have an issue with the government telling the church what they can and can't do. It should be up to the Vicars on a one-to-one basis whether they want to allow gay marriage in their church or not, if the government makes it law it's messy. With the CofE church it's not as messy as the Queen is the head of the church so she can give the go ahead, but how can the British government tell the Pope that gays have to be allowed to marry in a Catholic church? Also, can you imagine the Government saying that Mosques have
to allow gay Muslims to be married there? (FYI, I don't know or care if Muslims marry in mosques or not) It wouldn't happen.

Furthermore, if I was gay, I wouldn't want to get married in a fucking church. This cult that tells me my lifestyle choice is abhorrent, fuck that. Sure striking a blow for equality blahblah, but why don't the church have the freedom to say no to something they don't agree with?

 

[Job]

Im as opened minded as they come...but gay marriage always makes me think of the road to hell thats paved with good intentions.

 

[Wij]

Gay Civil Partnerships should be legal everywhere. The Church should not be forced to allow Gay Marriage. If the religion is against it do not get married there. Get a civil partnership.

Why can't they just get married? Marriage was around long before any of the current religions existed.

 

[Wij]

I don't like all this gays getting married in church business. Not because I have a problem with gay marriage, but because I have an issue with the government telling the church what they can and can't do. It should be up to the Vicars on a one-to-one basis whether they want to allow gay marriage in their church or not, if the government makes it law it's messy. With the CofE church it's not as messy as the Queen is the head of the church so she can give the go ahead, but how can the British government tell the Pope that gays have to be allowed to marry in a Catholic church? Also, can you imagine the Government saying that Mosques have
to allow gay Muslims to be married there? (FYI, I don't know or care if Muslims marry in mosques or not) It wouldn't happen.

Furthermore, if I was gay, I wouldn't want to get married in a fucking church. This cult that tells me my lifestyle choice is abhorrent, fuck that. Sure striking a blow for equality blahblah, but why don't the church have the freedom to say no to something they don't agree with?

Giving churches the choice of what to do is what they are making a fuss about. Although personally I wish they'd gone further and forced them to do it. If the Catholic Church wants to operate in the uk it can abide by our laws. Other organisations expect to be subject to the law. Why should religions get an opt out?

 

[Wij]

Im as opened minded as they come...but gay marriage always makes me think of the road to hell thats paved with good intentions.

W
T
F
?

 

[Job]

Simply because gay marriage is just a miniscule part of the vast array of prejudices and cultural conventions that hold society together and once you pull out one piece the pressure will be on to pull them all out and then the kerplunk will be on your head.

 

[Scouse]

Simply because gay marriage is just a miniscule part of the vast array of prejudices and cultural conventions that hold society together and once you pull out one piece the pressure will be on to pull them all out and then the kerplunk will be on your head.

Hating gays "holds society together", or keeps minorities apart from us?

And what is this "kerplunk" that will be on our heads?

I'm asking you this: What exactly are the possible fallouts from this, other than some people who hate gays will be pissed off?

 

[Tuthmes]

​

 

[Aoami]

Giving churches the choice of what to do is what they are making a fuss about. Although personally I wish they'd gone further and forced them to do it. If the Catholic Church wants to operate in the uk it can abide by our laws. Other organisations expect to be subject to the law. Why should religions get an opt out?

Historically the church has either been the law, or above it. Times have changed but it makes the church the completely irrelevant if its doctrine is dictated by government. As a staunch atheist I believe the church is practically irrelevant already, but there are plenty of people who do believe and believe in the doctrine of the church and as such the government shouldn't interfere as long as the church isn't killing anyone.

 

[Olgaline]

I'm Gay!

 

[Edmond]

I'm gay and so is my wife

 

[Adari]

Historically the church has either been the law, or above it. Times have changed but it makes the church the completely irrelevant if its doctrine is dictated by government. As a staunch atheist I believe the church is practically irrelevant already, but there are plenty of people who do believe and believe in the doctrine of the church and as such the government shouldn't interfere as long as the church isn't killing anyone.

I don't agree because the church is still able to grant rights through marriage. Though even if it didn't I think the government should interfere for the purpose of equality.

 

[Cerb]

Simply because gay marriage is just a miniscule part of the vast array of prejudices and cultural conventions that hold society together and once you pull out one piece the pressure will be on to pull them all out and then the kerplunk will be on your head.

Sounds like the kind of imbecilic argument plenty of people probably made about the abolishment of slavery way back when. Nice to see we've evolved past that kind of thinking as a society.

 

[Cerb]

Gay Civil Partnerships should be legal everywhere. The Church should not be forced to allow Gay Marriage. If the religion is against it do not get married there. Get a civil partnership.

I'm not well versed in how things work in Britain so can I ask.... is a civil partnership viewed the same way and given the same treatment by the government?

 

[soze]

Why can't they just get married? Marriage was around long before any of the current religions existed.

They can but not in a Church being forced into it. I see absolutely no difference in a Civil Partnership and a Marriage bar the venue.

 

[soze]

I'm not well versed in how things work in Britain so can I ask.... is a civil partnership viewed the same way and given the same treatment by the government?

Legally no they are the same with the same rights. A Civil Partnership is like getting married but at a Registrars Office rather than a Church. The only reason to force the Church to allow same sex marriages is because you can. As has been said why do you need to get married in a building where the religion says what you are doing is wrong? It is like suing to make a Synagogue allow me to have a hog roast there. I do not need to have it there but because I can't I need to fight it. If the gays really are looking for acceptance they need to realise they are already accepted by the majority and shit like this is not necessary.

 

[Cerb]

In that case as long as what same sex couples are doing is considered "Marriage" then I see no reason to force it into a church. The church are being cunts, but freedom of speech, choice and thought are important. We should ridicule, look down on and pity them for their way of thinking, but forcing them isn't the way to change minds.

The incest argument doesn't work for me because you may be attracted/ in love with a family member, but you are also attracted to and have the choice of marrying any member of the opposite sex.

 

[Tom]

What's the church for? I can't think of a single social advance that the church proposed first, but I can think of many it argued against.

 

[Punishment]

Let em off, it's not like they can breed

 

[rynnor]

Yes, you could find worse matches out there but the chances of a seel being born are orders of magnitude higher if you keep it in the family.

I used to think that but it's just not scientifically true - our whole race is pretty inbred due to population collapses in the distant past and various genocides.

You have to be at it for generations to really up the chances of birth deformities.

I have a mate who's a doctor who comes from a village up t north which was isolated for hundreds of years and has very high levels of inbreeding - aside from similarities in appearance they exhibit the normal range (except in height - they are all a bit short).

 

[rynnor]

The church banned incest with cousins and the like (which is reasonably safe, fugliness wise) to prevent rich people keeping their riches in the family.

Cousin's is a good example where its legal but very inadvisable over generations - look at the enormous rate of birth deformities amongst the UK's Pakistani origin populations who practice cousin marriage for financial reasons. Four or five times higher than the general population if I remember rightly.

Edit - its actually 10x higher incidence of birth defects

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/h...ities-due-to-cousin-marriages-every-year.html

Oh and thats with only half the UK Pakistani community practicing cousin marriage so it seems more like 20x worse.